CHICAGO | Politics and Current Events - Page 60

moorhosj · #**1181** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 5:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician

How racist! Criminals deserve rights too. We need to understand them better. They are such delicate souls, like children, crying for help.

Can you honestly give it a rest with this? This type of comment does not create productive conversation.

maru2501 · #**1182** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 5:58 PM**

someone like Arne Duncan probably gets blessed and everything feels the same

or Lisa Madigan pulls something off.

Kurt Summers maybe

It's not going to be one of the current 12.. I just don't see vallas

Vlajos · #**1183** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 6:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by moorhosj

Can you honestly give it a rest with this? This type of comment does not create productive conversation.

Why not the same for Kenmore?All of his posts are garbage trolling.

Vlajos · #**1184** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 6:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by maru2501

someone like Arne Duncan probably gets blessed and everything feels the same

or Lisa Madigan pulls something off.

Kurt Summers maybe

It's not going to be one of the current 12.. I just don't see vallas

To me, of the announced candidates, only Vallas is acceptable. But, I agree that something like this will happen.

moorhosj · #**1185** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 6:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Why not the same for Kenmore?All of his posts are garbage trolling.

If you think someone is trolling the solution is not to troll back, make a reasoned argument or ignore What I responded to was not a reasoned argument, it was bait.

maru2501 · #**1186** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 6:25 PM**

I think no matter what we get a weaker mayor and a city council that's quicker to slip into tribal warfare

Vlajos · #**1187** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 6:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by moorhosj

If you think someone is trolling the solution is not to troll back, make a reasoned argument or ignore What I responded to was not a reasoned argument, it was bait.

It was over the top, but an important point was made. We seem to care too much for criminals. Tougher sentencing seems like an important part of the solution.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/gu...-em-up-debate/

Mikemak27 · #**1188** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 6:57 PM**

Rahm’s legacy in my view will be 1. Fantastic economic and job growth. 2 uncontrollable violence (deaths would be MUCH higher now than in the 80’s if it wasn’t for rapid advancemeant in medical technology, also, he is hamstrung by Kim Fox not prosecuting violent criminals). 3 shoring up the pension systems with massive property tax increases. 4 putting an end to the budget gimmicks. 5 improving education and graduation scores while closing some, but not enough underenrolled schools. 6 not bending over to government unions as much as Daley in contract negotiations.

mark0 · #**1189** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 6:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos

What did they do, and why doesn't Chicago do the same then?

Both cities pushed a large portion of their poverty out, NJ, Inland Empire, etc.

Vlajos · #**1190** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 7:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by maru2501

I think no matter what we get a weaker mayor and a city council that's quicker to slip into tribal warfare

Just another reason to shrink the city council. The council should be focused on city wide issues, not potholes on some tiny side street and catering to NIMBYs.

SIGSEGV · #**1191** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 7:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos

How so?

Nobody trusts CPD, which makes it hard for them to solve crimes. It's not completely their fault, but they haven't earned the trust of anyone.

Vlajos · #**1192** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 7:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Nobody trusts CPD, which makes it hard for them to solve crimes. It's not completely their fault, but they haven't earned the trust of anyone.

Is that any different from any other large city though? CPDs issues are common in most major US cities it seems. I doubt that is a large driver.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/213869/...l-average.aspx

Via Chicago · #**1193** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 7:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikemak27

Rahm’s legacy in my view will be 1. Fantastic economic and job growth. 2 uncontrollable violence (deaths would be MUCH higher now than in the 80’s if it wasn’t for rapid advancemeant in medical technology, also, he is hamstrung by Kim Fox not prosecuting violent criminals). 3 shoring up the pension systems with massive property tax increases. 4 putting an end to the budget gimmicks. 5 improving education and graduation scores while closing some, but not enough underenrolled schools. 6 not bending over to government unions as much as Daley in contract negotiations.

no offense, but the pensions are not even close to being shored up. and theres still plenty of budget gimmicks. what do you call Rahms proposal to take out another $10 billion loan to fund pensions (which btw, the city wants to gamble on the stock market to try and outpace the 5% borrowing cost...hm, when has this ever gone badly before)?

http://www.wirepoints.com/rahm-emanu...cago-pensions/

SIGSEGV · #**1194** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 8:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Is that any different from any other large city though? CPDs issues are common in most major US cities it seems. I doubt that is a large driver.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/213869/...l-average.aspx

Well, I think CPD is #1 false confessions and police misconduct settlements. Despite paying such large sums, officers aren't usually disciplined.

http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/a...e_confessions/
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...flated-by-debt
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...isconduct-bill

Vlajos · #**1195** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 8:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Well, I think CPD is #1 false confessions and police misconduct settlements. Despite paying such large sums, officers aren't usually disciplined.

http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/a...e_confessions/
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...flated-by-debt
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...isconduct-bill

I have to admit I'm not following. Are you claiming that people commit more crime because of bad police? I am trying to get to the bottom of why Chicago has a higher crime rate than LA or NYC.

SIGSEGV · #**1196** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 8:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos

I have to admit I'm not following. Are you claiming that people commit more crime because of bad police? I am trying to get to the bottom of why Chicago has a higher crime rate than LA or NYC.

Police misconduct -> less trust in police -> harder to obtain evidence against criminals -> criminals commit more crimes.

Vlajos · #**1197** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 9:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Police misconduct -> less trust in police -> harder to obtain evidence against criminals -> criminals commit more crimes.

Sorry, not buying it. But that's fine. I doubt Chicago's African Americans have a significantly different take on police than NYC or LA african americans do.

moorhosj · #**1198** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 9:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Sorry, not buying it. But that's fine. I doubt Chicago's African Americans have a significantly different take on police than NYC or LA african americans do.

It is a fact that if you lock someone up for a crime they didn't commit (through false confession), the person who actually committed that crime isn't being locked up.

Vlajos · #**1199** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 10:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by moorhosj

It is a fact that if you lock someone up for a crime they didn't commit (through false confession), the person who actually committed that crime isn't being locked up.

I'm sure that's the reason crime is so much higher in Chicago than NYC and LA. Has nothing to do with stronger sentencing of violent offenders in those cities vs. Chicago.

SIGSEGV · #**1200** Posted **Sep 5, 2018, 10:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Sorry, not buying it. But that's fine. I doubt Chicago's African Americans have a significantly different take on police than NYC or LA african americans do.

This is hard to measure, but clearance rate is one observable. See e.g. https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/mu...w-low-in-2017/

Quote:

Another explanation is the poor relationship between police and people who live in high-crime neighborhoods. That tension — and mistrust — grew even worse after the 2015 release of the police dash-camera video showing a police officer shooting Laquan McDonald 16 times.

Police Supt. Eddie Johnson says one of his biggest priorities is to repair that damage so that people will report crimes to the police.

Los Angeles Police Department officials have pointed to their robust community-policing program as a major factor in solving murders.

Charlie Beck, the Los Angeles police chief, was quoted last year in the Los Angeles Times, pointing to how the murder clearance rate in housing projects served by his department’s Community Safety Partnership was 81 percent.