Winnipeg City Transit/Rapid Transit

[LilZebra]

Like this?

[The Unknown Poster]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

That is not something the City should get involved with. Having private citizens endorsed by the City voluntarily enforce security on Transit buses is a huge liability. The City 'dragging it's heels' it them doing due diligence.

What happens when one of the security guards gets assaulted or worse? Their family will be suing, that's what.

Private security is used all over. Id be more concerned that it would end up like security at the Liquor Mart where they are told to just watch, thus defeating the purpose.

An expended cadet compliment with responsibility for things like Transit policing might be the way to go.

[bomberjet]

Bear Clan isn't even private security. They're just citizens who walk around.

If they formed a company, with insurance, policies, etc, I'd be more open to that.

[bomberjet]

Some information posted in the City clerks office about the GEM development. It also gives some info on how the development is and isn't TOD. In general I think it's a decent development with density. Decent, not perfect.

http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/dmis/View...onId=&InitUrl=
Report 4

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Some information posted in the City clerks office about the GEM development. It also gives some info on how the development is and isn't TOD. In general I think it's a decent development with density. Decent, not perfect.

http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/dmis/View...onId=&InitUrl=
Report 4

I think this is a great project that could be the best TOD so far. Too bad it set a bit far from the station but that is out of their control.

[The Unknown Poster]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Bear Clan isn't even private security. They're just citizens who walk around.

If they formed a company, with insurance, policies, etc, I'd be more open to that.

Absolutely.

Which of course raises a simpler question as to why Transit doesnt hire a private security company. Much cheaper than cops. Of course, you have to be willing to let them do their jobs.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Isn't there some kind of compromise that can be found here? It's clear that there are a few hotspot routes (11, 15, 16, 18) that account for many of the problems. And going by news reports, it does seem like a good many, but admittedly not all, incidents tend to happen later in the evening, after 6 pm.

So instead of creating a new transit police force or deputizing the Bear Clan Patrol to act as the de facto transit police, how about a concentrated effort to increase the WPS presence on those troublesome routes? I'm not talking about having cops ride the bus for an 8 hour shift, but how about parking the cruiser car some evenings and riding the 16 down Selkirk and back for a half hour or so? Just creating the impression that police are proactively paying attention could have an impact.

This is exactly right. Put regular security on the one or two lines that have the most incidents. This isn't brain surgery. I really wonder about Transit and its inability to make even simple, logical decisions.

[cllew]

Security guards are not any different than the Bear Clan in what they can do. They don't have any special powers to arrest or detain since the province stopped the special constable program a number of years ago.

They are just basically just a warm body in a uniform that's told to call 911 if they encounter any problems at the site they are sent to.

[bomberjet]

What I'm getting at is liability. In now way will the City ask private citizens to patrol security. Won't happen. Probably illegal to do so.

It has to be at least a private company, even if they do the exact same thing.

[rkspec]

Its crazy the limitations of cadets, hired security and the bear clan have, but when a fight happens at the bar the person gets shit kicked by a few bouncers and then thrown out of the club.

[cllew]

Correct me if I am wrong but haven't the last few Winnipeg bouncers that got a little hands on (like the Roadhouse movie) gotten charged with assault?

[bomberjet]

On private property they can remove people in a respectable manner. If some guy is going crazy then yes they can physically remove them. Just like if someone was in your house causing a ruckus you can drag there ass to the street.

But nobody is permitted to shit kick anyone at anytime.

[Kinguni]

Security guards would be more useless than the current compliment of inspectors. A security guard's job is to observe, deter and detect. That's it. That's all they do. Stick one on a bus and they become a target. Most have done a 40 hour course and then written a multiple choice test. I'm better trained than most through a place I volunteer at every year (probably 160 hours of training) and I wouldn't do security on a bus. Bear Clan at least has training in dealing with the typical problem passengers.

But, in defense of transit police, here's a good read.
https://www.samuelthomasdavies.com/b...ndows-fallacy/

[bomberjet]

Theres an article about bear clan getting 100's of k's in funding. So they must be some type of company or organization. Get on the bus lol

[The Unknown Poster]

Originally Posted by cllew

Correct me if I am wrong but haven't the last few Winnipeg bouncers that got a little hands on (like the Roadhouse movie) gotten charged with assault?

Depends on the cops who respond. In my experience, most cops are respectful of the job bouncers do so long as the bouncers and the place they work have a good reputation for keeping the peace.

In my 15+ years we had way more good experiences with police than bad although we had one very bad one where the cops were actually caught lying in their statements and committed a false arrest (later thrown out).

I find most cops understand that bouncers have very little leverage over idiots other than barring them (which doesnt hold much water in the heat of the moment) or the risk of harm/embarrassment (which unfortunately does hold water).

Smart and credible bouncers know how to defuse situations. And they also know when a situation calls for a physical response (and sometimes thats better than a long drawn out effort to defuse).

I was head of security for a very busy nightclub near the U of M for ten years and in that time we had two bouncers charged with assault and both were thrown out.

[buzzg]

^Exactly. Sometimes charges do happen out of protocol or angry/embarrassed people who caused a scene. Most of the time the bouncers have no choice but to get physical if the person they’re trying to remove was being physical. Beating them up after they’re removed is a different story, but it’s a rare occasion.

Was just in London for 5 days. There, security guards must go through government training and carry a licence that is always visible on their sleeve. Bars of a certain size (really seemed like every bar) are legally required to have a certified guard after a certain time, and it’s actually illegal to present someone as “security” that is not certified. It’s a great system, and because everyone knows these guys and gals are legit – people don’t mess around with them. They also have legally regulated systems in place to report problems and problem patrons to police.

[eman]

Originally Posted by WildCake

The third example crosses 6 lanes of traffic, not an entire rail yard (roughly a dozen tracks, plus buffer zones). A pedestrian bridge to access the fort rouge or jubilee stations from pembina would be quite expensive and require long spans (I don't think you can get many piers in the rail yard), only to serve a relatively low density area of businesses, and some single family homes further out, while the Transitway side is far from built up. The city would also have to expropriate land on the Pembina side to accommodate the bridge. Maybe in the long term once the Fort Rouge infill is full and there are enough potential customers for the businesses and large number of citizens .to start vouching for such a project

I don't see it as a problem crossing tracks,, its just a narrow bridge. All single story buildings there now,, certainly the McDonals could be the main floor of 20+ floor tower. Why not? In any other city developers would happily tear them down and build big now that their property is right next to rapid transit But in Winnipeg developers can't even start construction on TOD naked land 6 years after buying it. Would not even have to expropriate anything if the developer makes the access part of his new building,, done all the time for subways stations.

[esquire]

I see City Hall has shot down the latest Parker Lands proposal.

I get that no one thinks the Parker proposal is great, but I have to wonder if the city is serious about finding a compromise. Unfortunately this dog leg route is a done deal and is almost built, and blocking the guy who wants to develop the site that the route was more or less built around seems like a questionable strategy... in the end, we could get the annoying dog leg without ANY kind of TOD along it.

The site has some real limitations due to the utility corridors, so I'm not sure that we'd see a perfect plan in any event.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by esquire

I see City Hall has shot down the latest Parker Lands proposal.

I get that no one thinks the Parker proposal is great, but I have to wonder if the city is serious about finding a compromise. Unfortunately this dog leg route is a done deal and is almost built, and blocking the guy who wants to develop the site that the route was more or less built around seems like a questionable strategy... in the end, we could get the annoying dog leg without ANY kind of TOD along it.

The site has some real limitations due to the utility corridors, so I'm not sure that we'd see a perfect plan in any event.

This is very frustrating, a developer own the land and is ready to move forward on development but the city keep holding it back. This is so far the best looking TOD proposed, even with it's limitations due to the hydro RoW. I wish the city would stop hindering the improvement of their own RT corridor. I don't understand why they chose to turn it down again.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Interestingly, one of the comments from the city was that the proposal was TOO DENSE if you can believe that. Admittedly I don't know the whole story but it does seem like the city is dragging its heals on this. They apparently have over 200 changes they want. 200!!