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  #6141  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2024, 7:31 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
This is negative and misleading. The entire reason they stayed in Conshy is because all the current big wigs all live on the Mail Line. It has nothing to do with Philly in general. Same thing happened to me. All the jerks I used to work for lived out there. When our Ritt Square lease was up they made some weak effort to "find a place" in the city. Everyone of the C-suites lived out on the mainline. Everyone else lived in the city.

Guess where the new office ended up?

Conshy. They lost 3-4 people (me included) because of that commute.
I'm not disagreeing with you but this article is about Boomi moving from Berwyn to Conshohocken. Not to Conshohocken from Center City.

No doubt executives make these decisions based on where they live. That's one of many reasons why more and more housing in Center City is good. Periodically, we're gonna be the beneficiary of one of those selfish decisions the more people who live here.
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  #6142  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2024, 2:26 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
I'm not disagreeing with you but this article is about Boomi moving from Berwyn to Conshohocken. Not to Conshohocken from Center City.

No doubt executives make these decisions based on where they live. That's one of many reasons why more and more housing in Center City is good. Periodically, we're gonna be the beneficiary of one of those selfish decisions the more people who live here.
Ya. I feel like it is so incredibly short-sighted. If your goal is to attract young talent (which it should be), moving out to the burbs will severely limit your ability to recruit.

It's basic math. And let's not forget the city tax. Until they address that meaningfully, it will always be a "con" to overcome. It seems so elementary and yet so far away.
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  #6143  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2024, 3:52 PM
PHLtoNYC PHLtoNYC is offline
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For the data nerds, prelim 2023 population data is out. Fun to review, but take this with a grain of salt.

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/t...cal-areas.html
https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20240314.html

The Philadelphia metro posted small growth (mostly in Montgo, Bucks, Chesco), but looks like the city declined by 16,000 residents from 2022 to 2023, which I find hard to believe...

Atlanta passed both Philly & DC metros in population, that was bound to happen.
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  #6144  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2024, 4:09 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
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Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC View Post
For the data nerds, prelim 2023 population data is out. Fun to review, but take this with a grain of salt.

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/t...cal-areas.html
https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20240314.html

The Philadelphia metro posted small growth (mostly in Montgo, Bucks, Chesco), but looks like the city declined by 16,000 residents from 2022 to 2023, which I find hard to believe...

Atlanta passed both Philly & DC metros in population, that was bound to happen.
Me too. But we did better than NY, Chicago and LA. So there's that. I bet with the WFH essentially ending, we're gonna see those numbers rebound.
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  #6145  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2024, 4:36 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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The narrative in this article is so interesting. It assumes that all this movement is people leaving Philly to live in the burbs because they don't have to commute. That can be true, but it also assumes they're not being replaced. Thousands of people are moving to Philadelphia (city) as a more accessible and affordable version of their past lives in NYC/DC/LA etc. i.e. it assumes those who leave are not being replaced.

The other reason why it falls a bit flat IMO is because there is almost no inventory and very little new construction in the suburbs. If nothing is for sale, where are these people moving? I can count on one hand the number of new housing developments in all of western Delaware County. Franklin Station, which is the biggest, has something like 4 units left out of 300+ homes. There's a sizeable new development in Edgmont called Ventry. It also has only 3 unsold homes. The massive Toll project in Newtown Square (Licester) finished years ago at this point. Everything else is tiny by comparison (i.e. 10-20 homes). There's a new "neighborhood" in Garnet Valley near my parent's house called Garnet Pointe that has something like 14 lots from $1+MM. They sold out in months, even in this interest rate environment. The latter is typical of what's being built right now.
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  #6146  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2024, 4:38 PM
DeltaNerd DeltaNerd is offline
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Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC View Post
For the data nerds, prelim 2023 population data is out. Fun to review, but take this with a grain of salt.

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/t...cal-areas.html
https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20240314.html

The Philadelphia metro posted small growth (mostly in Montgo, Bucks, Chesco), but looks like the city declined by 16,000 residents from 2022 to 2023, which I find hard to believe...

Atlanta passed both Philly & DC metros in population, that was bound to happen.
People are pointing out the poorest neighborhoods are mostly contributing to the population lost. Not sure how true that is. It's a shame because you walk through those poor neighborhoods and realize most of them have good bones for development. We just need more police and commercial zoning to build out those neighborhoods.
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  #6147  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2024, 6:35 PM
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mcgrath618 mcgrath618 is offline
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Paying attention to anything except the actual 10 year Census releases is dumb. The estimates have literally never been right about any city above 1M.
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  #6148  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2024, 8:18 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Originally Posted by DeltaNerd View Post
People are pointing out the poorest neighborhoods are mostly contributing to the population lost. Not sure how true that is. It's a shame because you walk through those poor neighborhoods and realize most of them have good bones for development. We just need more police and commercial zoning to build out those neighborhoods.
This could be true. Upwardly mobile blacks continue to leave the city. I do think economic conditions are improving for the typical person in this city and I could imagine, especially with the spate of school violence in the past couple of years, if you're a working class black family in Lower North Philadelphia who finally has enough income to buy something, you're probably not doing it in your neighborhood given the anxiety around the safety of your kids. At the same time, I don't want to hear about gentrification when 3 years later a bunch of yuppies roll through and start to renovate houses because all you did your entire life was aspire to leave.
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  #6149  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2024, 2:10 AM
DeltaNerd DeltaNerd is offline
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
This could be true. Upwardly mobile blacks continue to leave the city. I do think economic conditions are improving for the typical person in this city and I could imagine, especially with the spate of school violence in the past couple of years, if you're a working class black family in Lower North Philadelphia who finally has enough income to buy something, you're probably not doing it in your neighborhood given the anxiety around the safety of your kids. At the same time, I don't want to hear about gentrification when 3 years later a bunch of yuppies roll through and start to renovate houses because all you did your entire life was aspire to leave.
It's a shame we can't densify the whole metro area without people yelling gentrification and nimbys

SE PA economy isn't the greatest IMO. Not everyone has a Life Sciences degree, not everyone is going into Tech. We need more jobs but sadly I don't think manufacturing is coming back. The Bellweather district is a perfect place for that. We have an airport and major shipping port next door. Ideally Budd trains should come back, but I'm just dreaming at this point.

I think Philly metro area has a variety of jobs, just not enough of them. Our top three Industries is (Education and Health services), Trade, transportation, utilities), (Professional and Business Service).

Link shows the Industry trend from the Philadelphia airport stats
https://www.phl.org/drupalbin/media/...%20%282%29.pdf
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  #6150  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2024, 12:57 PM
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PhilliesPhan PhilliesPhan is offline
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Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC View Post
For the data nerds, prelim 2023 population data is out. Fun to review, but take this with a grain of salt.

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/t...cal-areas.html
https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20240314.html

The Philadelphia metro posted small growth (mostly in Montgo, Bucks, Chesco), but looks like the city declined by 16,000 residents from 2022 to 2023, which I find hard to believe...

Atlanta passed both Philly & DC metros in population, that was bound to happen.
Disclaimer: I think that Census estimates are BS.

When I dug into the data, I observed that the Philadelphia, PA Metro Division lost about 16,000 residents. I could be mistaken, but doesn't that division include both Philadelphia and Delaware Counties? If this is the case, then there is always the possibility that Delco is the driver behind the losses instead of the city. The city could (and is, according to my lived experience as a city resident) be doing just fine at the moment. Regardless, a loss of 16,000 people over an area and population size that includes Philly and Delco isn't the worst thing in the world.

EDIT: Nevermind. I just saw that Delco "gained" an estimated 847 people while the city "lost" 16,294 people. We'll see what the real numbers are come the 2030 Census.
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Last edited by PhilliesPhan; Mar 15, 2024 at 1:07 PM. Reason: e
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  #6151  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2024, 9:29 PM
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Urbanthusiat Urbanthusiat is offline
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I do not believe for a second that the city lost 16k residents in the last year. ACS estimates are always garbage and the census usually shows that they were totally off. Every other data point says the city is growing, except for ACS. I mean I know this is just anecdotal evidence but it seems like there is growth in huge parts of the city.
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  #6152  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2024, 12:09 PM
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summersm343 summersm343 is offline
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Yeah it’s so wildly inaccurate it’s funny. Don’t believe the yearly estimates for a second.
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  #6153  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2024, 2:46 PM
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EastSideHBG EastSideHBG is offline
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Developers file $150 million lawsuit against New Hanover Township alleging racial bias in Town Center delays

5-year-old probe of racism in police department cited in lawsuit.
https://www.timesherald.com/2024/03/...center-delays/

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