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  #221  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2020, 11:36 PM
lio45 lio45 is online now
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In the second picture, downtown is behind us...?

Some of these buildings look like typical Federal style (early 1800s).
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  #222  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2020, 1:10 AM
IWant2BeInSTL IWant2BeInSTL is offline
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^ yes, the 2nd and 3rd pics are taken roughly from the same location—the 2nd facing south and the 3rd facing north. the 1st pic is taken from a location just slightly east of the 3rd pic. the steeple on the far left in the 1st pic is on the far right in the 3rd pic.

STL has very little Federal Style left (never had a ton to begin with). Federals don't have mansard roofs. Most of the buildings pictured are Second Empire, i think.
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  #223  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2020, 1:38 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Well, that looks stupid because it is stupid. But it's still not the same. There is a classist component to being a native English speaker, or even one that speaks English fluently. People that migrate from non-English speaking countries to other countries without knowing the local language will get treated very much like Americans treat Latin Mexicans and central Americans.
I’ve lived in Japan since 2002 and until COVID and the PRC’s new laws spent combined years conducting business throughout APAC. Native English speakers who cannot make the effort of learning basic, day to day local expressions get shit on even harder than those who aren’t native English speakers. Everyone resents the arrogance and presumptiveness of it all. At least the Russians and French in Tokyo who can’t speak Japanese don’t presume to yell coffee orders in Russian or French. It’s always the American who rapid-fires off some iced Ristretto, 10 shot, venti, with breve, 5 pump vanilla, 4 Splenda, and poured, not shaken-type order in English so loud all the heads turn.

Look, I don’t speak Bahasa or Korean, but I can order a coffee or a whiskey in each when I’m working from Jakarta or Seoul. And it took all of 2 minutes to nail that down with a Google Translate lookup at the airport.
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  #224  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2020, 1:52 AM
lio45 lio45 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IWant2BeInSTL View Post
Most of the buildings pictured are Second Empire, i think.
Of course they are.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IWant2BeInSTL View Post
STL has very little Federal Style left (never had a ton to begin with).
Actually, from a quick Street View exploration, it appears the neighborhoods that were the correct age for that style were too close to downtown to have survived:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6201...7i13312!8i6656

What's further away (Soulard, etc.) is a bit newer (mid/late 1800s).
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  #225  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2020, 2:25 AM
IWant2BeInSTL IWant2BeInSTL is offline
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^ i think that's pretty accurate. the building in that street view is the Field House Museum: https://fieldhousemuseum.org/. it's the only remaining member of Walsh's row, which was razed in the early 1930s:


image source


image source

here's what the area around Walsh's row used to look like around 1875, from Compton & Dry's revolutionary Pictorial St. Louis (https://www.loc.gov/item/rc01001392/):


link to image

there's another old Federalist (Federalist-Italianate?) house turned museum downtown as well. The Campbell House Museum is the only extant member of one of St. Louis' first private streets, Lucas Place: http://www.campbellhousemuseum.org/


image soruce

Lucas Place from a colorized version of Compton & Dry:

image souce


http://www.campbellhousemuseum.org/2...is-gilded-age/


the amount of architecture that St. Louis has lost is mind-boggling.
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  #226  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2020, 3:03 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
In the second picture, downtown is behind us...?

Some of these buildings look like typical Federal style (early 1800s).
The mansard roofs, though, are not Federal. They became most popular in the second half of the 19th century which is why you see them on so much Victorian architecture but also French Empire style etc.
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  #227  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2020, 3:20 AM
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Would it be right to say that if St. Louis still retained a chunk of its building stock it would be comparable to New Orleans and Montreal in feel? I’m getting strong European vibes from these older pictures. Such a grand city that should rightfully be the Gateway to the West.
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  #228  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2020, 2:46 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is online now
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
I’ve lived in Japan since 2002 and until COVID and the PRC’s new laws spent combined years conducting business throughout APAC. Native English speakers who cannot make the effort of learning basic, day to day local expressions get shit on even harder than those who aren’t native English speakers. Everyone resents the arrogance and presumptiveness of it all. At least the Russians and French in Tokyo who can’t speak Japanese don’t presume to yell coffee orders in Russian or French. It’s always the American who rapid-fires off some iced Ristretto, 10 shot, venti, with breve, 5 pump vanilla, 4 Splenda, and poured, not shaken-type order in English so loud all the heads turn.

Look, I don’t speak Bahasa or Korean, but I can order a coffee or a whiskey in each when I’m working from Jakarta or Seoul. And it took all of 2 minutes to nail that down with a Google Translate lookup at the airport.
And they still treat those arrogant Americans better than they treat African immigrants in Tokyo.
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  #229  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2020, 4:50 PM
IWant2BeInSTL IWant2BeInSTL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
Would it be right to say that if St. Louis still retained a chunk of its building stock it would be comparable to New Orleans and Montreal in feel? I’m getting strong European vibes from these older pictures. Such a grand city that should rightfully be the Gateway to the West.
i mean, it has retained a "chunk" but that chunk mostly consists of the younger (mid 1800s–early 1900s) streetcar suburbs. the older stuff that ringed downtown is pretty much gone. even if that stuff were still around, i think it would feel more like Center City Philly than New Orleans or Montreal due to the architectural styles. (and now I'm realizing that what i said earlier about St. Louis never having much in the way of Federal style probably isn't true. most of what circled downtown was probably Federal—or at least not Second Empire.) if the riverfront had not been destroyed, i think it would feel like a much larger version of Savannah's riverfront:


image source

Last edited by IWant2BeInSTL; Jul 21, 2020 at 5:17 PM.
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  #230  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2020, 5:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
I’ve lived in Japan since 2002 and until COVID and the PRC’s new laws spent combined years conducting business throughout APAC. Native English speakers who cannot make the effort of learning basic, day to day local expressions get shit on even harder than those who aren’t native English speakers. Everyone resents the arrogance and presumptiveness of it all. At least the Russians and French in Tokyo who can’t speak Japanese don’t presume to yell coffee orders in Russian or French. It’s always the American who rapid-fires off some iced Ristretto, 10 shot, venti, with breve, 5 pump vanilla, 4 Splenda, and poured, not shaken-type order in English so loud all the heads turn.

Look, I don’t speak Bahasa or Korean, but I can order a coffee or a whiskey in each when I’m working from Jakarta or Seoul. And it took all of 2 minutes to nail that down with a Google Translate lookup at the airport.
Before I went to Japan for an academic conference years ago, I crash coursed on basic Japanese vocabulary/ phrases to the point that my colleagues would ask me how to say certain things when we were out and about.
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