Olympics 2026 Potential Bid Thread

[artvandelay]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I have a strong feeling that Parks Canada (and nor the environmentalists) would allow new train infrastructure within Banff National Park. Now that being said, while it wouldn't be for people moving, I wonder if the current rail line could be opened up once again for passenger service from Calgary to Lake Louise, with stops in Canmore and Banff? Perhaps something like to Olympics will make people think about that once again.

I'm not sure why Parks Canada wouldn't be on board with using the existing rail infrastructure to improve public transit and reduce vehicle usage in the park. There is a study in the works on the subject to answer questions regarding necessary upgrades:

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...ice-to-calgary

Even CP has signed on:
http://www.cochraneeagle.com/article...study-20160310

I think it's a great idea, provided there is some type of Park 'n Ride in Calgary. I'm not sure if it's because of the tourists or the city folk not used to highway driving, but Highway 1 between Calgary and Banff is chronically home to some of the worst driving habits in Canada. Being able to avoid that frustration is very welcome indeed.

[MalcolmTucker]

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[simster3]

I find the issue with the train is that many people in the summer are not going from Calgary to Banff townsite exclusively. I know when I go to Banff it is to go hiking somewhere, or even into Kananaskis or Spray Lakes area and I assume that is the majority of the Hwy 1 traffic. Mostly people couldn't utilize a train because they are not staying only in an area the train stops. But I think it would be a cool experience and I would probably try it once for the novelty. Also, I think CP would be the hard sell to allow passenger service on their line.

[Innersoul1]

The Banff gondola looks cool. I think it would make sense to have an actual station at Tunnel Mountain given the density of camping sites as well has hotels.

[MalcolmTucker]

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[milomilo]

Do variable speed limits exist anywhere in Canada? That, and ANPR based average speed limits would probably do a lot of good. Requires some infrastructure (gantries) but that is useful for information purposes as well. Would be great on some other roads too.

I've definitely come around to the idea of rail out to Banff/Lake Louise. The roads are reaching breaking point so the fewer on highway 1 and in the villages themselves the better, but it will need decent local transportation at the ends or it is pointless. It's going to get built eventually, so it might as well be now!

[MalcolmTucker]

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[ByeByeBaby]

Banff has a number of issues:

• Basically the only way to get there from Calgary is to drive (Brewster runs a handful of buses a day, mostly from the airport and mostly milk runs taking 2 1/2 hours to get to Banff).
• The Banff area attractions (Banff Springs, Gondola, Cave and Basin, Hot Springs) are all out of the townsite.
• The Banff area attractions are all on the other side of town from the highway, so they generate through traffic in town.
• Parking in Banff itself is tough, so there's a lot of circling vehicles.
• Other attractions in the park (e.g. Lake Louise, Minnewanka, Johnson Canyon) require a car to get to from the townsite.

Rail service only solves the first of these. I'd like to see a really good coach service provided on the route at a low cost and see if it can draw enough passengers to fulfil that sort of demand. Banff needs a major expansion of Roam transit service (and probably additional parking at the edge of town). For $500 million, you could invest it and live off the return to fund a dream transit service in the park and a high quality coach service between Calgary and the park all for free.

Bus service can work in a parks environment. Grand Canyon NP has a series of shuttle buses that get over 7 million riders per year (GC NP has 4.5 million visitors versus Banff's 3.6 million). That's over 1.5 rides per park visitor. Banff has 0.18 rides per park visitor. The difference is that the GCNP shuttles go outside of the townsite area, that they run frequently (15 minutes versus 30/45/60), and that they are free (versus $2-6). The basic problem with Banff's approach to transportation is that it's modelled off of an urban perspective; farebox recovery as a major contributor, etc. $3 per visitor transportation levy would provide enough revenue to solve all the traffic problems.

[Innersoul1]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Do variable speed limits exist anywhere in Canada? That, and ANPR based average speed limits would probably do a lot of good. Requires some infrastructure (gantries) but that is useful for information purposes as well. Would be great on some other roads too.

I've definitely come around to the idea of rail out to Banff/Lake Louise. The roads are reaching breaking point so the fewer on highway 1 and in the villages themselves the better, but it will need decent local transportation at the ends or it is pointless. It's going to get built eventually, so it might as well be now!

The Coquihalla in BC has a really half assed implementation of the variable speed limit section. But it's pretty brutal.

Seattle has done a very good job of bringing it in.

[Innersoul1]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

My Olympic Wishlist:
-Nakiska Upgrades(As posted my Malcolm Tucker)
-Rail transport to Banff
-New 7000-10000 capacity arena at UofC
-West Village to be redeveloped as an athletes village
-A spit shine on all other facilities

Calgary is lucky that the Olympic venues from 88 are still in use today. Here are some pictures of abandoned Olympic venues from around the world:
http://imgur.com/gallery/Mk1hI

Man Athens really went to the dogs. I am actually surprised that the Atlanta venues went downhill the way they have

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

Banff has a number of issues:

• Basically the only way to get there from Calgary is to drive (Brewster runs a handful of buses a day, mostly from the airport and mostly milk runs taking 2 1/2 hours to get to Banff).
• The Banff area attractions (Banff Springs, Gondola, Cave and Basin, Hot Springs) are all out of the townsite.
• The Banff area attractions are all on the other side of town from the highway, so they generate through traffic in town.
• Parking in Banff itself is tough, so there's a lot of circling vehicles.
• Other attractions in the park (e.g. Lake Louise, Minnewanka, Johnson Canyon) require a car to get to from the townsite.

Rail service only solves the first of these. I'd like to see a really good coach service provided on the route at a low cost and see if it can draw enough passengers to fulfil that sort of demand. Banff needs a major expansion of Roam transit service (and probably additional parking at the edge of town). For $500 million, you could invest it and live off the return to fund a dream transit service in the park and a high quality coach service between Calgary and the park all for free.

Bus service can work in a parks environment. Grand Canyon NP has a series of shuttle buses that get over 7 million riders per year (GC NP has 4.5 million visitors versus Banff's 3.6 million). That's over 1.5 rides per park visitor. Banff has 0.18 rides per park visitor. The difference is that the GCNP shuttles go outside of the townsite area, that they run frequently (15 minutes versus 30/45/60), and that they are free (versus $2-6). The basic problem with Banff's approach to transportation is that it's modelled off of an urban perspective; farebox recovery as a major contributor, etc. $3 per visitor transportation levy would provide enough revenue to solve all the traffic problems.

How's Grand Canyon's traffic situation compared to HW1? A bus will get stuck in the same traffic as cars offering no speed/lack of stress advantage. Although I doubt any train on CP rail tracks is going to be very fast or reliable at all sadly.

[googspecial]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Do variable speed limits exist anywhere in Canada? That, and ANPR based average speed limits would probably do a lot of good. Requires some infrastructure (gantries) but that is useful for information purposes as well. Would be great on some other roads too.

I was just in Sicamous for the weekend and the portion of TCH between there and Revelstoke has variable speed limit signs up. About 5 if I remember correctly. On the way there they were all posted 100km/h, but on the way back 4/5 were posted at 80km/h due to rain and fog through the pass.

[CalgaryAlex]

If we are to implement passenger rail service, I don't see much point in sharing a line with the very busy CP freight network.

Let's get real. If we want passenger rail service in 202x, it should be built using the European standards of today with fused tracks, high speed and reliable timetables. I would hope we wouldn't settle for the low standards set by Amtrak/VIA Rail. A train rumbling along to Banff at speeds significantly lower than personal vehicles, with possible delays due to freight train priority (or worse, derailment), isn't going to generate a lot of interest. And if it doesn't generate interest, it will be an unsustainable failure and a complete waste of money.

Unfortunately that means building a new line, which I don't see happening unless the population in Alberta grows significantly.

[MalcolmTucker]

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[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Here is Banff's initial idea for a gondola system:

http://www.banff.ca/DocumentCenter/View/2639

The last station is a 1km away from the train station, though an indirect link would probably be better than a direct one since it wouldn't destroy the playing field, and could have a higher ppdph link down Elk Street from the train station/maybe an intercept lot than the rest of the system may have.

That's a great post! I had no idea a new gondola was being planned for Banff. I think the BVRTSC want's to introduce a bus service along highway 1A that goes to Lake Louise next year.

[CalgaryCheese]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

Banff has a number of issues:

• Basically the only way to get there from Calgary is to drive (Brewster runs a handful of buses a day, mostly from the airport and mostly milk runs taking 2 1/2 hours to get to Banff).
• The Banff area attractions (Banff Springs, Gondola, Cave and Basin, Hot Springs) are all out of the townsite.
• The Banff area attractions are all on the other side of town from the highway, so they generate through traffic in town.
• Parking in Banff itself is tough, so there's a lot of circling vehicles.
• Other attractions in the park (e.g. Lake Louise, Minnewanka, Johnson Canyon) require a car to get to from the townsite.

Rail service only solves the first of these. I'd like to see a really good coach service provided on the route at a low cost and see if it can draw enough passengers to fulfil that sort of demand. Banff needs a major expansion of Roam transit service (and probably additional parking at the edge of town). For $500 million, you could invest it and live off the return to fund a dream transit service in the park and a high quality coach service between Calgary and the park all for free.

Bus service can work in a parks environment. Grand Canyon NP has a series of shuttle buses that get over 7 million riders per year (GC NP has 4.5 million visitors versus Banff's 3.6 million). That's over 1.5 rides per park visitor. Banff has 0.18 rides per park visitor. The difference is that the GCNP shuttles go outside of the townsite area, that they run frequently (15 minutes versus 30/45/60), and that they are free (versus $2-6). The basic problem with Banff's approach to transportation is that it's modelled off of an urban perspective; farebox recovery as a major contributor, etc. $3 per visitor transportation levy would provide enough revenue to solve all the traffic problems.

I like the additional parking at the edge of town. When I went to Europe recently I noticed that a lot of towns and smaller cities had park-n-rides at the edge of town, where you park your car and use transit while you're in the town. It's actually pretty convenient, and it'd lessen the traffic and parking issue significantly.

In the short term, would it be possible to extend the Roam bus all the way to Calgary? They already run Route 3 which is a Banff-Canmore shuttle, could they add some more new buses and run a service to downtown or something?

[MalcolmTucker]

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[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

The Coquihalla in BC has a really half assed implementation of the variable speed limit section. But it's pretty brutal.

Seattle has done a very good job of bringing it in.

If I may ask, what makes them half-assed? I saw the Coquihalla and Trans Canada variable speed limits last month and they seemed fine to me.

[DizzyEdge]

I really like the idea of a coach / shuttle service. Either from downtown or from Tuscany station, to Banff and areas around Banff.
I also like the idea of tacking it onto the park entry fee, or just have like a $5 day pass or something.
What is the cost of parking in and at the edge of Banff?

[MalcolmTucker]

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