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  #21  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 7:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
By that logic shouldn't all the Calgary Housing Company properties be sold for redevelopment or privatized?

After all, if there is demand for affordable housing someone will step up.
Was this ever intended as affordable housing?
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  #22  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 7:34 PM
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Quote:
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Was this ever intended as affordable housing?
It is owned/operated by the Calgary Housing Corporation, the City's affordable housing group.
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  #23  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 7:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
By that logic shouldn't all the Calgary Housing Company properties be sold for redevelopment or privatized?

After all, if there is demand for affordable housing someone will step up.
Building affordable housing and providing a serviced lot for a trailer park is an apples to oranges comparison.
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  #24  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
Whatever the circumstances of the site there is no excusing the city re-nagging on the new location. If there were even a debate over whether or not another form of city controlled affordable housing should be eliminated without replacement the mayor and council would be fighting their way to the cameras to name and shame the proponents of the policy. It would be called exclusionary and elitist. We would be reminded the city is for everyone.

In any event, pipes can be replaced under pads. It's called lateral pipebursting. It is pretty straight forward and not very expensive.

Three years or three days is sort of a moot point when your effectively being evicted from the city. "We don't want your kind" is sort of the vibe it gives off.
This replaces laterals assuming the main is still functioning, and still requires minor excavation for the receiving pit. This wouldn't be applicable to address the problem out there.
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  #25  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 8:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelS View Post
It is owned/operated by the Calgary Housing Corporation, the City's affordable housing group.
Good to know.

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Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
Building affordable housing and providing a serviced lot for a trailer park is an apples to oranges comparison.
I would agree, the city could build affordable housing (some form of mid-rise) here [streetview] (since the RCMP building that was there is now gone) and offer the residents of the mobile home park priority for the spaces in the building. Isn't the reason for the 3.5 years notice partially so these folks can obtain spaces elsewhere with CHC?
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  #26  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 8:12 PM
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A better question is why won't they spend the money to fix the water and sewer lines?

Or is the City planning on letting this land go fallow forever, because it's just "too expensive" to fix whatever's wrong?

What happens to my own SFH house in 40 years, and my water and sewer lines are old? Is there something unique with water and sewer lines for trailer parks that they can't be repaired?
It is a valid question, but I think the answer depends on the nature of the issues. I'd trust the city water engineers on their assessments that it is not straightforward.

Of course, pipes have gotten old elsewhere also. There has been a heck of a lot of upgrades in the beltline from shit-hole intensification. The pipes were just not designed for that much fertilizer.
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  #27  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 8:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelS View Post
It is owned/operated by the Calgary Housing Corporation, the City's affordable housing group.
But it may have not been intended to be affordable housing, the city just ended up with the property due to happenstance (sounds like a tax seizure in the 70s) and the only city arm that had somewhat related competencies would be CHC.
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  #28  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 8:42 PM
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Whether or not a municipal government has the right to do something or not and whether or not they should is two completely different discussions. To pull back affordable housing under their control, in any form, as Calgary persists in a permanent housing crisis is just an act of cruelty.

The city isn't a REIT, they should absolutely be held to a different standard as a landlord.

If this was a mostly vacant wasteland with only a handful of old geezers stubbornly hanging on, or it were dilapidated and overrun with crime, I could see an argument for shutting it down. But this is a living community of people that is fulfilling a need for desperately needed housing. Many of these people just won't have anywhere to go.

Although news video of the police forcibly evicting the extremely elderly from their homes two weeks before an election that will probably be fought over housing affordability should be interesting. And I am pretty sure come 2017 some decisions will have been made regarding the redevelopment the site that will make the optics even worse.

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I think part of the issue is the rents have been unintentionally subsidized for years and now the city had to make the choice, close or raise the rents. The second choice would be as unpalatable as the first is, but has the disadvantage that the land will generate zero property tax (unless the city is charging itself, and even then the amount would be dramatically less than if it was developed in a different form).

IMO I'm sorry to hear that these folks are losing their plots, but at the end of the day the landlord (the city) shouldn't be held to responsibilities no other landlord would be. I haven't heard of an out cry like this regarding a condo conversion, though it's likely that some cases have affected as many or more people. If the city had signed some sort of agreement to allow usage in perpetuity then there might be a case here, but if it's similar to any other rental/lease agreement it's unlikely that the residents can even have a reasonable expectation that they could stay or be provided alternative locations if their current location was closed for some reason.

As to the city re-nagging on the new location, was anything signed with the residents? This is a bit like expecting the Green line to be built before funding is secured or for that matter anything in the 10 year capital plan funded or unfunded. The city has the discretion to re-prioritize projects or cancel them altogether at anytime, even after construction has started and you as a citizen have no recourse against them. Lets put it this way, no resident of the park should have planned on the new location until it was ready for them.

P.S. Isn't this something that you preach when we discuss the NCLRT being on the books for years?
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  #29  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 8:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
Building affordable housing and providing a serviced lot for a trailer park is an apples to oranges comparison.
Not if you're the one facing homelessness.
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  #30  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 8:47 PM
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Three years notice after at least a decade of mulling over the problem doesn't seem too harsh to me.
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  #31  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 9:12 PM
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Not if you're the one facing homelessness.
What does this have to do with who provides the affordable housing? this seems like a pretty useless post given the context...
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  #32  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 9:17 PM
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...says the man who just bought a condo.

I think this is another shining example of what I called the "white collar gaze" a number of years ago. It isn't antipathy, it is just sheer obliviousness to how a significant number of people live their lives.

If that trailer is the only security you have in your life, a years worth of rent and a whole lot of warning isn't much of a trade if your income potential is on the wrong end of the median.

Maybe this was not deliberately intended to be affordable housing, but Centre Street wasn't intended to be a major arterial road either. But it is what it is and the city is responsible for it.
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  #33  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 9:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
What does this have to do with who provides the affordable housing? this seems like a pretty useless post given the context...
The context is the city is withdrawing affordable housing from the market, explaining the distinction to the person being evicted from anywhere is not merely redundant, it's insulting.
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  #34  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 9:24 PM
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And a developer has stepped up and said they are happy to accommodate people. So people will move - what is the issue?
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  #35  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 9:41 PM
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Who just bought a condo?

I guess the pertinent question is does the city own the trailers too, or just the land? if it's just the land, $10 000 to move the trailers seems reasonable and these people will still have their security as you put it.

All I was getting at was that it doesn't matter who fills the need (city vs private), just as long as someone does. And since this is just providing serviced land to park a trailer, the economics shouldn't be such that it is unfeasible for private interests to do if the city has no intention of doing so.
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  #36  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 10:02 PM
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Where on earth is a vague non-committal "forward looking statement" to the media by a developer an actionable case-closed satisfactory resolution to anything?

Why didn't the city come out hand-in-hand with Lansdowne and announce both at the same time?

I suspect that will play out in much the same way as the City Centre Airport and Villeneuve fiasco did. With one hand Edmonton closed the City Centre Airport and with the other they vetoed plans to properly service the Villeneuve Airport (in the name of fighting sprawl) so that it might have accommodated the users of the City Centre Airport. The proposal will be found to be incompatible with the Municipal Development Plan and that will probably be the end of it.
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  #37  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Mountain View Post
Good to know.



I would agree, the city could build affordable housing (some form of mid-rise) here [streetview] (since the RCMP building that was there is now gone) and offer the residents of the mobile home park priority for the spaces in the building...?
Wow! I haven't been through there for a while. When did the station get removed and where did that detachment move to? Is the fire station still there?
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  #38  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 10:13 PM
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Wow! I haven't been through there for a while. When did the station get removed and where did that detachment move to? Is the fire station still there?
AFAIK the fire station is still there, but I went past a couple weeks ago and the detachment was no more, not sure where they moved to though. I'm likely going that direction tonight I'll have a gander when I drive by.

Edit: According to the list of detachments here there doesn't appear to be a Calgary one anymore
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Last edited by Full Mountain; May 29, 2014 at 10:30 PM.
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  #39  
Old Posted May 29, 2014, 11:03 PM
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Video Link

Thrown up by Markusoff of the Herald, a video by Jon Lord.

Big issue all along is that residents and the city can't even agree on facts, and that has been true for a decade or more. Not even on the need to do infrastructure repairs. Also, on a replacement property, I'd bet it was judged non viable because few residents said they wished to move there if given the option.

From the City News Release:

Quote:
Midfield Mobile Home Park was developed by Richfield Development Corporation in 1968 on land leased from The City. In 1973, Richfield turned over the operation of the park to The City of Calgary. Since 2001, the park has been managed by Calgary Housing Company. Midfield consists of 173 mobile homes.
Given the pace of development along 16th Ave, I don't really think there is a case for invoking conspiracy in this situation.
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  #40  
Old Posted May 30, 2014, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
...says the man who just bought a condo.

I think this is another shining example of what I called the "white collar gaze" a number of years ago. It isn't antipathy, it is just sheer obliviousness to how a significant number of people live their lives.

If that trailer is the only security you have in your life, a years worth of rent and a whole lot of warning isn't much of a trade if your income potential is on the wrong end of the median.

Maybe this was not deliberately intended to be affordable housing, but Centre Street wasn't intended to be a major arterial road either. But it is what it is and the city is responsible for it.
Jeez, Bubbles. Where were you, Ricky and Julian over the past decade when over 7000 rental apartments were turned into condominiums, all with City approval? Especially since most of them involved less than 3 years notice and $20,000 compensation. But now 173 trailers have to move, that's the real catastrophe. It's unfortunate for the residents, no doubt. But they're better off than thousands of other low-income households forced out of their homes over the years.
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