Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[jmt18325]

Looking at the traffic map, it's clear which bypass should come to fruition in the next decade.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Politics are the reason why 101 and 15 is the way it is. The Province left the diversion in 101 to build the interchange. Then politics happened and the Province stuck it to the RM by putting up the lights. Different 'parties' were in power between the province and the RM. That's anecdotal, but really happened.

Looking at the traffic map we see an estimated 11,000 to 17,000 vehicles hitting the Perimeter area from the general Oak Bank region. At its peak HWY 15, a two lane road, has traffic counts approaching HWY 75, a four lane divided road. It's why the Oak Bank corridor route makes sense.

The root of the issue behind 101/15 isn't really deep in politics itself it is more what is being done on the Oak Bank corridor route. Are they going to twin HWY 15 in place? Are they going to build the new road to replace HWY 15? Which route might the new road take? etc. That all needs to be sorted out before you can do anything with HWY 15 and the Perimeter as you need to know if HYW 15 is a two lane road or a four lane road. Also if you move a significant portion of the traffic to the north on the proposed Oak Bank corridor routes HWY 15/101 could go from a full interchange to a diamond with a free flowing Perimeter.

In terms of politics, it isn't exactly a secret that Springfield is very blue in good times and bad and never changes from that. It isn't exactly shocking that the Oak Bank corridor plans trace back to the era of the last PC government and got placed on hold under the NDP. Looking at those traffic counts and the public accident reports on deaths at Gunn Rd it doesn't surprise me that it needs to be a high priority area going forward.

Not that it matters here but I don't live there anymore. Haven't for years but know the area well. Honestly it is likely a road I would never drive on. Matter of fact I am far more likely to drive on a St Marys interchange than the Oak Bank corridor road.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Looking at the traffic map we see an estimated 11,000 to 17,000 vehicles hitting the Perimeter area from the general Oak Bank region. At its peak HWY 15, a two lane road, has traffic counts approaching HWY 75, a four lane divided road. It's why the Oak Bank corridor route makes sense.

The root of the issue behind 101/15 isn't really deep in politics itself it is more what is being done on the Oak Bank corridor route. Are they going to twin HWY 15 in place? Are they going to build the new road to replace HWY 15? Which route might the new road take? etc. That all needs to be sorted out before you can do anything with HWY 15 and the Perimeter as you need to know if HYW 15 is a two lane road or a four lane road. Also if you move a significant portion of the traffic to the north on the proposed Oak Bank corridor routes HWY 15/101 could go from a full interchange to a diamond with a free flowing Perimeter.

In terms of politics, it isn't exactly a secret that Springfield is very blue in good times and bad and never changes from that. It isn't exactly shocking that the Oak Bank corridor plans trace back to the era of the last PC government and got placed on hold under the NDP. Looking at those traffic counts and the public accident reports on deaths at Gunn Rd it doesn't surprise me that it needs to be a high priority area going forward.

Not that it matters here but I don't live there anymore. Haven't for years but know the area well. Honestly it is likely a road I would never drive on. Matter of fact I am far more likely to drive on a St Marys interchange than the Oak Bank corridor road.

Hwy 15 should have always had a proper cloverleaf or other high volume set up.

My issue is your urge for GUNN road which I could be closed off as it once was. There wasn't a perimeter Hwy there not to long ago. So please explain what ya'll did then. Exactly. Pipeline and St Anne's and St Mary's have existed for as long as most of us have been alive.

Anyway. Back to 15. It needs to be twinned. That's what it really needs most. We don't need a brand new highway from OakBank that travels just a few Kms north of Hwy 15. That's a waste of money.
Second a certai. RM should be footing the bill for their travel issues imo. Just like the people in LaSalle. They are the ones who use this city for work. Yet escape taxes.

As for traffic lights. Have they saves a lot of lives at Pipeline?????
And just so you know. St Mary's and St Anne's have been killing people since I was 8 years old in 1980. So again please explain why GUNN road should be first. Has anyone died there? What are the fatality counts. Highest one wins.

Gunn
Pipeline
St Mary's
St Anne's.

Guessing Pipeline will win.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Anyway. Back to 15. It needs to be twinned. That's what it really needs most. We don't need a brand new highway from OakBank that travels just a few Kms north of Hwy 15. That's a waste of money.

The problem with this is that in actuality it is cost prohibitive to twin Hwy 15. My discussions with MIT told me that there are so many properties fronting both sides of Hwy 15 from the floodway east to Dugald that the costs associated with expropriation would be too high, that and the proximity to the rail line make land acquisition difficult (much like the twinning of Wilkes).

There has been some talk of building a new Hwy (twinning) just to the North or South of Hwy 15. This is where the talk of the Oakbank Corridor becomes more realistic.

Either way, this wouldn't likely happen until 2030 or later pending political will.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Biff

The problem with this is that in actuality it is cost prohibitive to twin Hwy 15. My discussions with MIT told me that there are so many properties fronting both sides of Hwy 15 from the floodway east to Dugald that the costs associated with expropriation would be too high, that and the proximity to the rail line make land acquisition difficult (much like the twinning of Wilkes).

There has been some talk of building a new Hwy (twinning) just to the North or South of Hwy 15. This is where the talk of the Oakbank Corridor becomes more realistic.

Either way, this wouldn't likely happen until 2030 or later pending political will.

Exactly. The Oak Bank corridor route isn't a "new" highway but a relocation of HWY 15 essentially between 101 and 206. When it is completed it would continue on to CPT and effectively close Gunn Rd at the Perimeter permanently. The Oak Bank corridor route would mostly go through fields used for farming.

The whole "twinning" of HWY 15 is why both HWY 15 and Gunn Rd currently don't have better plans in place on the Perimeter. The issue is all heavily interconnected.

When you are looking at traffic counts from the Oak Bank area you need to look at both HWY 15 and 213 west of 206 as Oak Bank is in between the two. If a limited access four lane road was built between 206 and the Perimeter a lot of that traffic would be pulled into the new road.

Also while it is known as the Oak Bank corridor route it would also serve Dugald, Anola and other parts of Springfield.

In terms of the costing of a route, as it would be a provincial highway and people living in those area are paying provincial taxes they are already picking up the cost. Considering it has been on the books for 20+ years already that is one heck of a down payment.

As I have said before if you want to talk issues with provincial roads you need to look beyond the south Perimeter. I know the TransCanada/Yellowhead intersection near Portage has been on the list an extremely long time too. Pretty sure HWY 6 is on the list for northern communities. And if you want to talk about needing to pay their fair share for roads, there is a strong case to be made that the issues with the south Perimeter, especially between Pembina and 59, are because the City has long been delaying its own infrastructure work, ie grade separating Bishop.

And for bluenote a few quick links on Gunn Rd fatalities:

http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/one-dead-...rash-1.1502953
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...gunn-1.3841431
http://www.chrisd.ca/2012/06/26/gunn.../#.WP9rc-91qDY

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Biff

The problem with this is that in actuality it is cost prohibitive to twin Hwy 15.

What about alternating passing lanes?

[Biff]

That is a possibility I have heard talked about. The problem still exists of all the access points to single family homes making even the addition of passing lanes dangerous.

[jmt18325]

I hate in general how Manitoba treats us like children when it comes to passing lanes, with a double solid line at passing lanes. In places like Idaho, you can pass on the side opposite the passing lane if there is no oncoming traffic.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Exactly. The Oak Bank corridor route isn't a "new" highway but a relocation of HWY 15 essentially between 101 and 206. When it is completed it would continue on to CPT and effectively close Gunn Rd at the Perimeter permanently. The Oak Bank corridor route would mostly go through fields used for farming.

The whole "twinning" of HWY 15 is why both HWY 15 and Gunn Rd currently don't have better plans in place on the Perimeter. The issue is all heavily interconnected.

When you are looking at traffic counts from the Oak Bank area you need to look at both HWY 15 and 213 west of 206 as Oak Bank is in between the two. If a limited access four lane road was built between 206 and the Perimeter a lot of that traffic would be pulled into the new road.

Also while it is known as the Oak Bank corridor route it would also serve Dugald, Anola and other parts of Springfield.

In terms of the costing of a route, as it would be a provincial highway and people living in those area are paying provincial taxes they are already picking up the cost. Considering it has been on the books for 20+ years already that is one heck of a down payment.

But the city is expected to build a brand new road to accommodate this one and all the tax dodgers that come with it. No wonder we can't improve the roads that already exist. And people paying provincial taxes all benefit from roads with the greatest benefit to the province. A highway from a bedroom community to the city won't have the economic spinoffs of improving the main highway through the province.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by biguc

But the city is expected to build a brand new road to accommodate this one and all the tax dodgers that come with it. No wonder we can't improve the roads that already exist. And people paying provincial taxes all benefit from roads with the greatest benefit to the province. A highway from a bedroom community to the city won't have the economic spinoffs of improving the main highway through the province.

CPT which would be the city side of the Oak Bank corridor has been on the books longer than the discussions for the Oak Bank corridor have been occurring. The need to CPT existed within the city long, long before the Oak Bank corridor discussions came to light. The City stands to benefit from CPT having east Perimeter access from its in-land port plans.

[1ajs]

if the city wants to help curv the people leaving the city. maybe it should stop messing with the traffic lights and time them properly as they are creating artificial grid lock during the day witch piss's people off to the point they want to leave thats actualy an ongoing problem and i know a swack of people that left the city cause of this issue..

[esquire]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

if the city wants to help curv the people leaving the city. maybe it should stop messing with the traffic lights and time them properly as they are creating artificial grid lock during the day witch piss's people off to the point they want to leave thats actualy an ongoing problem and i know a swack of people that left the city cause of this issue..

Ha. Funny you should mention that, I had a lunchtime errand to run today... downtown to Grant Park. Felt like I hit every red light along the way... maddening.

It won't make leave the city though, because that just means even more time behind the wheel.

[bomberjet]

I find people who just get up and quit are the biggest losers. You leave because of 'traffic'. Then as esquire said, only to spend more time behind the wheel. What does that solve?

I put traffic in quotations because really Winnipeg has not bad traffic.

I know a bunch of people who hate the City life. They live out in Garson area. But then they drive every single day to downtown for work. Okaaaayyyy.

[WildCake]

Not sure if this is indicative of anything but if you look closely at 15/101 on google maps, there seems to be some earthwork that was done on the south east side of the intersection that looks like an exit ramp. Wonder if that was with a folded diamond design in mind, like at Wilkes/ 100, and Rosser rd./101 in conjunction with the rail crossing just north. They could use the former detour on the southwest side as the other ramp. Given that the folded diamond is a low capacity design for the secondary route, there likely has to be a design improvement on that now that Oakbank is booming, or like CoryB mentions, another interchange at/near Gunn rd.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

if the city wants to help curv the people leaving the city. maybe it should stop messing with the traffic lights and time them properly as they are creating artificial grid lock during the day witch piss's people off to the point they want to leave thats actualy an ongoing problem and i know a swack of people that left the city cause of this issue..

Not to worry. The City's traffic centre has fixed that already!

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I find people who just get up and quit are the biggest losers. You leave because of 'traffic'. Then as esquire said, only to spend more time behind the wheel. What does that solve?

I put traffic in quotations because really Winnipeg has not bad traffic.

I know a bunch of people who hate the City life. They live out in Garson area. But then they drive every single day to downtown for work. Okaaaayyyy.

I resemble that comment! I drive City bus all day but as soon as I pass Deacon's Corner I breath easier. Driving my own vehicle in City traffic drives me crazy, but that's mostly due to awful drivers.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by esquire

Ha. Funny you should mention that, I had a lunchtime errand to run today... downtown to Grant Park. Felt like I hit every red light along the way... maddening.

It won't make leave the city though, because that just means even more time behind the wheel.

I don't see how the city can ever properly synchronize traffic signals on main routes if it insists on using vehicle detector loops. All it takes is one intersection along any given route to receive a shortened green because one car pulls up on the intersecting street, and traffic on the primary route is just out of the detection zone. Then timing at any following intersections is thrown out of whack.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by Kinguni

Not to worry. The City's traffic centre has fixed that already!

What exactly has that multi million dollar traffic center even accomplished? I drive a fair bit, and haven't noticed any significantly improved flow or actual synchronization.

This city is weird. Nairn Ave has had its lights synced and appropriately timed for years...yet pretty much everywhere else is just a randomly timed shitmess. Maybe they should try working on Portage Ave and Pembina south of Bishop for starters.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by WildCake

Not sure if this is indicative of anything but if you look closely at 15/101 on google maps, there seems to be some earthwork that was done on the south east side of the intersection that looks like an exit ramp. Wonder if that was with a folded diamond design in mind, like at Wilkes/ 100, and Rosser rd./101 in conjunction with the rail crossing just north. They could use the former detour on the southwest side as the other ramp. Given that the folded diamond is a low capacity design for the secondary route, there likely has to be a design improvement on that now that Oakbank is booming, or like CoryB mentions, another interchange at/near Gunn rd.

They were going to make an overpass here. They were actually in the works of it. That's why you see the earthworks started. Cory here fails to see that and thinks they didn't do it because of his super highway to OakBank is needed to serve tax evading people .....

The stoppage of this overpass was a political move and it's pretty well known in Manitoba.

[CoryB]

I actually lived out in that area at the time the missing link in the Perimeter was built. It was around the same time the Oak Bank corridor discussions first came up. Way back then HWY 15 was near capacity and a rather dangerous route to drive on. Since that time the traffic counts have only increased.

Sure there was plans to change the HWY 15 bridge over the floodway to add an extra east lane to take traffic from the Perimeter. The thing is they quickly determined that and extra lane for traffic from 101 to roughly 207 wasn't going to be sufficient and something more was needed.

As biff pointed out the location of the rail line and existing development along the current HWY 15 route make it cost prohibitive to twin in place. The road is necessary due to city planning decisions that go back over 50 years. Saying Winnipeg should put the sprawl genie back in the bottle is something that won't happen unless you invent time travel and go back and fix the issues before they start.