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  #401  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2007, 5:12 PM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
^ha, ha, cheeky monkey....how good is everyone's googling skills?...can someone find where this came from?.....the reward will be a very cool animation of the proposal....and a great web site...

BTW this is one of the three proposals that the city is considering right now....along with the park and the other tall (but shorter) building.
Not very good apparently. How about a hint?
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  #402  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2007, 5:21 PM
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The reason that they wouldn't build a 40 storey tower would be that it is very expensive to build 40 storey towers and because for what is basically a single-tenant building it makes no sense.
Being that you don't live in Winnipeg, you don't know how long we've been waiting for something to eclipse the height of the Richardson Building completed in 1969 (even though the CanWest tower is technically taller, it's only by about 10 feet or so). Although the Manitoba Hydro building is basically single-tenant, it is still the largest development of office space in the city's history. With the square footage of this project they could easily have built it as a 40 storey tower. They also didn't have to build it as a single-tenant development but could have been part of a multi-use project (office, commercial & residential).
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  #403  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2007, 5:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DowntownBooster View Post
Being that you don't live in Winnipeg, you don't know how long we've been waiting for something to eclipse the height of the Richardson Building completed in 1969 (even though the CanWest tower is technically taller, it's only by about 10 feet or so). Although the Manitoba Hydro building is basically single-tenant, it is still the largest development of office space in the city's history. With the square footage of this project they could easily have built it as a 40 storey tower. They also didn't have to build it as a single-tenant development but could have been part of a multi-use project (office, commercial & residential).
As you say, the CanWest tower is the tallest in Winnipeg and dates from 1989-90. Here in Toronto we've had the same "tallest" since 1975. I suspect that virtually no one outside of skyscraper forums knows or cares, in either case.

You seem to be operating (like many skyscraper boosters on this forum) under the impression that the same square footage costs the same no matter what the height of the building is. Not so. First of all, the square footage that counts is rentable space. The lower floors of tall office buildings have very small leaseable areas, because their cores are taken up with all of the many elevator banks that have to service the various upper stages of the building. In my building in Toronto, we have four elevator banks of 8 elevators each (+ 2 service elevators). The bottom 20 floors have basically no interior space--it's all taken up by elevators going to the higher stages. That is very expensive space to build because it leaves you with little to rent out and also the problem of finding a tenant that can do business effectively in an oddly configured office. You need to have a very rich potential tenant to pay inflated rents at the top of the building in order to make up for what you lose at the bottom. Winnipeg doesn't have tenants like that.

That's part of the reason why you can't just translate square footage like that. In addition, you have to take into account all of the non-rentable space (or at least, not very productive space from the tenant's view) that has to be duplicated on each floor (maintenance, bathrooms, kitchens, etc.) or the fact that it is inherently expensive to build tall buildings. It's not some random choice whether you build a 10 storey 40,000 square foot per floor building or a 40 storey 10,000 square foot per floor one...with the decision dictated only by shadow-hating NIMBYs.
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  #404  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2007, 6:04 PM
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actually the reason hydro went with a 22 storey 40 000 square foot floor plate building instead of a 20 000 square foot floor plate in a 40 storey building (which is far more typical)....is because of the size of their departments...they wanted to keep each department from being split up on to multiple floors as much as possible...it was a factor of the way hydro is organized, with large departments.
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  #405  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2007, 6:14 PM
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I wish the frist floor facing portage would be for retail.
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  #406  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2007, 7:12 PM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
actually the reason hydro went with a 22 storey 40 000 square foot floor plate building instead of a 20 000 square foot floor plate in a 40 storey building (which is far more typical)....is because of the size of their departments...they wanted to keep each department from being split up on to multiple floors as much as possible...it was a factor of the way hydro is organized, with large departments.
Exactly, large institutional clients never want little skinny skyscrapers. Insurance companies are a good example of that. Even in the legal profession, I can attest that the division of our offices between 7 or 8 floors of a skyscraper, and the lack of communication that results, is an ongoing challenge for our business. It's far better from the point of view of almost any business to have people on as few floors as possible, meeting each other and interacting regularly. The time wasted on elevators is also a genuine consideration.
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Last edited by Andy6; Mar 26, 2007 at 12:50 AM.
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  #407  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2007, 7:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DowntownBooster View Post
Probably for the same reason that those of us who hoped that Manitoba Hydro would have built a 40 storey tower but somehow knew they wouldn't because they wouldn't want to offend those people that are against tall buildings (due to the fact that tall buildings cast a shadow).
Good grief! You have shadow nazis as well. From what I heard the took 11 floors off the Bow in Calgary.
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  #408  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2007, 7:17 PM
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no...we dont have shadow nazi's...you could build a 90 storey tower pretty much anywhere...

11 floors...wow.
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  #409  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2007, 7:21 PM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
no...we dont have shadow nazi's...you could build a 90 storey tower pretty much anywhere...

11 floors...wow.
I don't know about that..

That 11 story Martin Bergen building to be built in NK was shut down because of shadow, HSC has always had to fight with their neighbours regarding shadow.

Maybe downtown its a different story, but I bet you dollars to doughnuts that at least one or two people in Ft. Garry Place make a stink about this.
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  #410  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2007, 8:29 PM
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Originally Posted by viperred88 View Post
I wish the frist floor facing portage would be for retail.
I thought street retail would be a big part of this building. Crap!
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  #411  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2007, 8:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
I don't know about that..

That 11 story Martin Bergen building to be built in NK was shut down because of shadow, HSC has always had to fight with their neighbours regarding shadow.

Maybe downtown its a different story, but I bet you dollars to doughnuts that at least one or two people in Ft. Garry Place make a stink about this.
Could you honestly blame them, given the enormous size of the proposed building, which would appear likely to cut off a lot of their light and views?
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  #412  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2007, 8:34 PM
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Could you honestly blame them, given the enormous size of the proposed building, which would appear likely to cut off a lot of their light and views?
My view is if you don't like tall buildings, traffic, and people don't live in the city. Find yourself a nice little place in suburbs or out in a small town like Plum Coulee.

Downtown is the place for tall buildings. I'm sure someone will object to 100 main, but dammit! that's the place for a scraper.
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  #413  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2007, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
Could you honestly blame them, given the enormous size of the proposed building, which would appear likely to cut off a lot of their light and views?
I wonder how they do it in other cities??? Its happens in many other cities all the time... its just a fact of life in a growing city. You telling me that having a dense innercity in Vancouver hasn't restricted some views?

You know its called downtown for a reason. Build it.
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  #414  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2007, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Smron View Post
Waawaawoowaa!



I love that design!!!!!!!!!!!!! It would make my heart tremble just to see it standing.

Does anyones still think making that lot only a park the best option. I am telling you this building would turn some heads.
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  #415  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2007, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 1ajs View Post
... looking at the 2 images hydro is missing in the one veiw...
The second image is also missing the hotel at the Forks and the parkade. Don't take them so literal. Its just to give you an idea what the new building would look like relative to the exsisting downtown.
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  #416  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2007, 11:52 PM
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I wonder how they do it in other cities??? Its happens in many other cities all the time... its just a fact of life in a growing city. You telling me that having a dense innercity in Vancouver hasn't restricted some views?
I don't believe I mentioned Vancouver or other cities, but if they routinely ignore the effects of new buildings on neighbouring property owners and residents, then I would find fault with them as well.

Quote:
You know its called downtown for a reason. Build it.
I don't think the definition of "downtown" refers to the right of property developers to build anything they want anywhere they want without any consideration of the opinions of their neighbours or citizens generally.
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  #417  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2007, 12:00 AM
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is this a condo building or apartement ..?

it looks impressive.
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  #418  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2007, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
^ha, ha, cheeky monkey....how good is everyone's googling skills?...can someone find where this came from?.....the reward will be a very cool animation of the proposal....and a great web site...

BTW this is one of the three proposals that the city is considering right now....along with the park and the other tall (but shorter) building.
so which corporation is going to build that? a bank? It's impressive
A park doesn't make sense there, there forks are just across the street.
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  #419  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2007, 1:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
Maybe downtown its a different story, but I bet you dollars to doughnuts that at least one or two people in Ft. Garry Place make a stink about this.
youre right...i meant downtown...i also agree that there will be a stink from ft. garry place...that block is the senior's block.

vancouver is unbelievable...they a whack of 'view cones' that are views from seemingly random places around the city that no development is allowed to enter...it preserves mountain peaks and slivers of ocean from certain vantage points...some of which appear to be the shoulder of a highway and illogical places like that....it is quite draconian.

check it out...

http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/comm...ws/listing.htm



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  #420  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2007, 1:56 AM
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If you want to find the visual, which is very impressive, ask yourself “who is the firm that has championed the redevelopment cause of P&M”; go to their site and enjoy.

BTW: What’s with the poodle on the roof?
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