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  #121  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2018, 3:06 AM
RobertS4 RobertS4 is offline
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I know, just a bit dissapointed. Hope it comes out better and maybe a spire.
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  #122  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2018, 12:42 PM
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I think the right decision was made by all involved. This design can only get better.
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  #123  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2018, 3:03 PM
aggie2008 aggie2008 is offline
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I don't really understand why they would have used the number of floors to turn this down. This was conceptual approval. From HDRC's website:

"Once applicants have met with staff and attended the DRC meeting, it is recommended but not required, that the applicant submit an application for Conceptual Approval by the HDRC. Conceptual Approval is HDRC approval of the "concept" of the project in order to give the applicant feedback about the design and scope of the project prior to completion of 80% construction documents and significant investment by the applicant. Final Approval of an application requires 80% construction documentation for review by the HDRC before a Certificate of Appropriateness can be issued."

They're asking to double the allowed height according to zoning on this site. I can see why they wanted to get an early sign of conceptual approval before investing time and effort into the exact design.
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  #124  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2018, 1:02 AM
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I hope the architects are reading this thread. There's been some helpful advice and interesting points of view. It might help them.
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  #125  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2018, 1:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aggie2008 View Post
I don't really understand why they would have used the number of floors to turn this down. This was conceptual approval. From HDRC's website:

"Once applicants have met with staff and attended the DRC meeting, it is recommended but not required, that the applicant submit an application for Conceptual Approval by the HDRC. Conceptual Approval is HDRC approval of the "concept" of the project in order to give the applicant feedback about the design and scope of the project prior to completion of 80% construction documents and significant investment by the applicant. Final Approval of an application requires 80% construction documentation for review by the HDRC before a Certificate of Appropriateness can be issued."

They're asking to double the allowed height according to zoning on this site. I can see why they wanted to get an early sign of conceptual approval before investing time and effort into the exact design.
Because who knows what they'd do with those remaining floors? They might decide to make three floors with Times Square style jumbo-trons that constantly play Gigli starring Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez, and that would totally suck even without the sound.
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  #126  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2018, 4:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown View Post
Because who knows what they'd do with those remaining floors? They might decide to make three floors with Times Square style jumbo-trons that constantly play Gigli starring Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez, and that would totally suck even without the sound.
You do realize they would need to go back for the Certificate of Appropriateness, right?
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  #127  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2018, 4:22 PM
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Originally Posted by aggie2008 View Post
You do realize they would need to go back for the Certificate of Appropriateness, right?
That's the first time I've heard that term, to be honest. I was just using a ridiculous example of why giving approval without seeing a finished rendering could result in something unexpected and unwanted.
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  #128  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2018, 4:55 PM
aggie2008 aggie2008 is offline
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Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown View Post
That's the first time I've heard that term, to be honest. I was just using a ridiculous example of why giving approval without seeing a finished rendering could result in something unexpected and unwanted.
I guess I know a little about the process.... There are a couple of key things to know about HDRC:

1. There are historic guidelines and downtown design guidelines. Because this project is not in a historic district it needs to follow the downtown design guidelines.
2. There are also RIO overlay districts (that I don't know much about other than that they limit the height and vary based on how close to the SA river the site is). To get final approval to go over the height limit for this site (10 stories) they will have to get a zoning variance.
3. Final approval from HDRC comes from a Certificate of Appropriateness (CoA), conceptual design really means very little. When I got my house approved I went straight for the CoA. Larger or more daring designs will start with the Conceptual Approval which gives them some certainty before going to full design. The CoA requires 80% construction documents, a CoA has no such guidelines.

In all likelihood the project is trying to get financing, some idea of what hotel/office use would be there, and firming up details. They wanted to give themselves some wiggle room as they figure that stuff out. If they added a floor or two (or removed a few floors) before going back for final approval it wouldn't really matter that much to the design. They weren't going to add crazy things, it would just be extend the design they already had. And if they did do something crazy, HDRC could say this doesn't look like what we conceptually approved and tell them to start over.

This is also going to have to go to zoning for the variance which will require it to go to city council as well. I'm sure they were hoping to get HDRC's Conceptual Approval so that they could use that for the zoning board. Without it, they'll likely just go straight to zoning and limit the ability of HDRC to give input on height.
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  #129  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2018, 6:20 PM
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Thanks for the explanation.

Nobody knows what's going to happen, of course. But what's the real likelihood that the design will look significantly different from the renderings presented (plus or minus a few floors)?
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  #130  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2018, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown View Post
Thanks for the explanation.

Nobody knows what's going to happen, of course. But what's the real likelihood that the design will look significantly different from the renderings presented (plus or minus a few floors)?
I guess it depends on how the approvals go... I heard that Pearl got a variance to allow 15 floors for the site that they are building 10, if true you'd think this site should also be able to get at least 15. I would expect the mixed use portion of the development would need quite a few floors for each use. So maybe if they restrict it too much it would just do hotel or office instead of both? That seems like it would drastically change the design.
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  #131  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2018, 12:41 AM
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Seems a bit sloppy on Gray Street’s part that they didn’t get their ducks in a row before going to the HDRC.
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  #132  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2018, 9:25 PM
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Talked to a guy who works for Gensler to see if he was allowed to talk about what they were planning, he is not. But he said exciting things are coming... so... yay?
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  #133  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2018, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by micahinsa View Post
Seems a bit sloppy on Gray Street’s part that they didn’t get their ducks in a row before going to the HDRC.
Calm down....

KSAT is reporting today on its website, that the HDRC is reviewing the 20 story building tomorrow Wednesday at 3:00pm.

Business owners in the area are welcoming the development as well.
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  #134  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2018, 3:04 AM
Fryguy Fryguy is offline
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Originally Posted by AwesomeSAView View Post
Calm down....

KSAT is reporting today on its website, that the HDRC is reviewing the 20 story building tomorrow Wednesday at 3:00pm.

Business owners in the area are welcoming the development as well.
You're looking at old news. It was pulled. 🐙
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  #135  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2018, 4:50 PM
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You're looking at old news. It was pulled. 🐙

OH, OK

Pulled, but not dead.......

WE SHALL SEE.
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  #136  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 12:30 AM
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Judging by the preliminary agenda, this project is now proposed to be nineteen stories.
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  #137  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 7:23 PM
micahinsa micahinsa is offline
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They managed to rework this in just a few weeks?
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  #138  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 8:04 PM
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They managed to rework this in just a few weeks?
Sure. They're just asking for conceptual approval.
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  #139  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 9:09 PM
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Yeah, I had a feeling they were just seeing what they could build in terms of massing while working on something else.
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  #140  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 9:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jaga185 View Post
Yeah, I had a feeling they were just seeing what they could build in terms of massing while working on something else.
So you think we’ll see something significantly different in terms of aesthetic than what we’ve seen so far?
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