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  #281  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2007, 6:22 AM
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Hey maxus, just wondering...based on your comment about the Grand Hyatt looking like a dorm and your new user title...do you not like your city very much lol?
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  #282  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2007, 7:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxus View Post
these were taken 9/17/07 from the 37N/ Florida/ Carolina exit.




I really like the first one.

I must say, I strongly disagree with your assumption San Antonio is the 29th largest city. I know there is a great deal of chatter on this site and others about metros being the real indicator of a city’s size. I think that is pure B.S. Here is my reasoning. First, take Atlanta or any other large metro area (DFW/Houston/San Antonio/Austin in our case) individuals chose to live in Decatur, Duluth, Marietta, or other areas in the Atlanta Metro area for a reason. I am sure those people do not go around saying they are from Atlanta; the same way people from Plano do not say they are from Dallas. These areas are there own municipalities, have their own vibe, and are in most ways not dependant on the main city in the area.

I live in Houston and I hear people all the time say there are from West U., Bellaire, Katy, or some other independent city. If people say they are not from somewhere why do some insist on trying to redefine established guidelines and principles to force them into a box. The same can be said for the city governments, I am sure the mayor and city councils of these independent municipalities do not see themselves as anything other than what is listing on their charters.
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  #283  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2007, 2:37 PM
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Here we go again. Hmm, those are kewl pics, thanx you ever so much for putting them up. "Dorm" that is a new one, i never thought of it that way.


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  #284  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2007, 4:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schertz1 View Post
I really like the first one.

I must say, I strongly disagree with your assumption San Antonio is the 29th largest city. I know there is a great deal of chatter on this site and others about metros being the real indicator of a city’s size. I think that is pure B.S. Here is my reasoning. First, take Atlanta or any other large metro area (DFW/Houston/San Antonio/Austin in our case) individuals chose to live in Decatur, Duluth, Marietta, or other areas in the Atlanta Metro area for a reason. I am sure those people do not go around saying they are from Atlanta; the same way people from Plano do not say they are from Dallas. These areas are there own municipalities, have their own vibe, and are in most ways not dependant on the main city in the area.

I live in Houston and I hear people all the time say there are from West U., Bellaire, Katy, or some other independent city. If people say they are not from somewhere why do some insist on trying to redefine established guidelines and principles to force them into a box. The same can be said for the city governments, I am sure the mayor and city councils of these independent municipalities do not see themselves as anything other than what is listing on their charters.
I got this one... If someone comes to New York and says they're from West U., Bellaire or Katy, people will resond, "Where?" Then they'll answer back, "Houston." Then the person will say, "Oh, OK. Houston."
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  #285  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2007, 4:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxus View Post
these were taken 9/17/07 from the 37N/ Florida/ Carolina exit.



Seems to be about as tall and ugly as the Marriott.
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  #286  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2007, 6:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ydoc14 View Post
Hey maxus, just wondering...based on your comment about the Grand Hyatt looking like a dorm and your new user title...do you not like your city very much lol?
Quite the contrary, YDOC14. I love it here.

It's just that asthetically, this new tower has very little appeal. It seems that when using the term Grand as in Grand Hyatt, you would expect some greater visual attraction. Of course the building is incomplete so I may be jumping the gun but it reminds me of the tower near the UT campus in Austin located at San Antonio St. and 24th one block west of Guadalupe. I believe that building is a dorm or apartments. Anyway, it looks like it was built on the cheap. Unoriginal and bland- so far.
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  #287  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2007, 6:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schertz1 View Post
I really like the first one.

I must say, I strongly disagree with your assumption San Antonio is the 29th largest city. I know there is a great deal of chatter on this site and others about metros being the real indicator of a city’s size. I think that is pure B.S. Here is my reasoning. First, take Atlanta or any other large metro area (DFW/Houston/San Antonio/Austin in our case) individuals chose to live in Decatur, Duluth, Marietta, or other areas in the Atlanta Metro area for a reason. I am sure those people do not go around saying they are from Atlanta; the same way people from Plano do not say they are from Dallas. These areas are there own municipalities, have their own vibe, and are in most ways not dependant on the main city in the area.

I live in Houston and I hear people all the time say there are from West U., Bellaire, Katy, or some other independent city. If people say they are not from somewhere why do some insist on trying to redefine established guidelines and principles to force them into a box. The same can be said for the city governments, I am sure the mayor and city councils of these independent municipalities do not see themselves as anything other than what is listing on their charters.

Yes, Shertz1. You are correct in saying that throughout any metro area other municipalities may have there own independent vibe- Say, Alamo Heights within San Antonio. But on the whole, if I were a visitor I would not consider the smaller communities as totally separate. They are part of the entire urbanized area and that is why I call SA the 29th largest. San Francisco (municipal) has less than half as many people is S.A. but if I were visiting in in and around S.F. the urban area spreads out much farther than in S.A. That is why S.F. is really the 5th or 6th largest city and S.A. is the 29th. This is not B.S. Urbanized area, baby, Urbanized area!
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  #288  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2007, 6:46 PM
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Originally Posted by maxus View Post
Yes, Shertz1. You are correct in saying that throughout any metro area other municipalities may have there own independent vibe- Say, Alamo Heights within San Antonio. But on the whole, if I were a visitor I would not consider the smaller communities as totally separate. They are part of the entire urbanized area and that is why I call SA the 29th largest. San Francisco (municipal) has less than half as many people is S.A. but if I were visiting in in and around S.F. the urban area spreads out much farther than in S.A. That is why S.F. is really the 5th or 6th largest city and S.A. is the 29th. This is not B.S. Urbanized area, baby, Urbanized area!

San Antonio is the 27th largest metro area and is moving up in the rankings.San Antonio is the 7th largest city proper and urbanized area it is 20 something i'm sure.You need to change your signature and say 29th urbanized area or whatever.It is not the 29th largest city.This is misleading.San Francisco urbanized area includes the entire bay area,San Jose,Oakland etc and beyond.Actually San Jose is the biggest city in the bay area so Technically it should come before San Francisco as the primary city of the area.Even though it will never be seen that way.
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2018 S. A. Pop.1.51 million
metro 2.5 million/REGION 4.7million
San Antonio economy and largest economic sectors. Annual contribution towards GDP.
U.S. Dept of Defense $48.5 billion/Manufacturing $40.5 billion/Healthcare-Biosciences $40 billion/Finance-Insurance $20 billion/Tourism $15 billion/ Technology $10 billion.
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  #289  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2007, 7:53 PM
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I will say-and leave it at that-there are currently terms to describe, pretty much, every thing we talk about on this forum. We do ourselves a huge disservice by manipulating the facts, as it usually creates a great deal of problems. All I am saying is, if you mean city, then say city, but if you mean metro or urban area then say so. Lets not distort the truth.

I also get the point of West U. being encompassed by Houston and many people may not be familiar with the city outside of Texas. So, if someone uses a well known reference point (Houston) to give someone an idea of its ( West U.) location, it should really be just that, a point of reference. For example, someone comes to Texas from White Plains, Elizabeth, or Stamford and the locals ask, where is that. If they are told NYC, it is only a point of reference.
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  #290  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2007, 8:01 PM
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Hello Paul in SA,

For most people a city is virtually the same as the metropolitan area. Within this forum we can be very specific as we all know the difference DOES make a difference. So for leighmans terms we'll just say S.A. is the 27th largest city.
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  #291  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2007, 8:59 PM
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How about we just say there are a lot more urbanized/populated areas around the country than SA?
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  #292  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2007, 9:38 PM
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I love the way the Hyatt looks from certain angles, but straight from the side is blah. It almost is as tall as the Marriott roof to roof, because even looking from the North from 281 Hildebrand area they look pretty even. That means the mech. box will be taller than the Marriott roof for sure.
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  #293  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2007, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 21bl0wed View Post
How about we just say there are a lot more urbanized/populated areas around the country than SA?
That sounds good to me.
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  #294  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2007, 2:09 AM
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Yeah, it is pretty bland in appearance.
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  #295  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2007, 2:29 AM
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Metro does not mean urbanized area.The metro includes outlying non built up areas as well.
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San Antonio economy and largest economic sectors. Annual contribution towards GDP.
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  #296  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2007, 3:42 AM
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Let's not let this get off topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul in S.A TX View Post
Metro does not mean urbanized area.The metro includes outlying non built up areas as well.
I have to agree with this. For instance, Caldwell County is included in Austin's metro area, but it's anything but built up and/or urbanized. I'm not sure I've even set foot in Caldwell County. lol

Metro populations is a much better measure of cities. Look at Round Rock, Texas, Austin's largest suburb. Let's compare it to Galveston. As of 2005 the estimated population for Round Rock was 86,316. It has already passed Galveston's population by nearly 30,000 people. Galveston that same year had an estimated 57,466 people. Anyway, I dare anyone to say that Round Rock is as urban or built up as Galveston, let alone larger. Galveston, even though it is a tiny dot on the map, is a very urban city with buildings that are way over 100 years old. Galveston is full of beautiful old neighborhoods full of huge old houses. Round Rock likely couldn't boast either of those. Metro numbers don't lie, city population numbers are always skewed.

Also city limit sizes vary wildly. One city might be hundreds of square miles while another might be just a few square miles while they might both have the same city population. Now which one is more urban? Obviously the one with the smaller city limit size. A good example of this is Boston and Oklahoma City. Boston's city limits is 48 square miles and they have 590,763 people in the city. Oklahoma City has 621 square miles and has 541,500 people. However, Oklahoma City's metro population is only 1,266,445 people, while Boston has 4,455,217 people. Boston and metro is obviously larger than Oklahoma City.

This issue shouldn't even have to come up with you guys, we're all supposed to know about this stuff, more so than your average Joe walking down the street.
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  #297  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2007, 4:27 AM
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Let's not let this get off topic.



I have to agree with this. For instance, Caldwell County is included in Austin's metro area, but it's anything but built up and/or urbanized. I'm not sure I've even set foot in Caldwell County. lol

Metro populations is a much better measure of cities. Look at Round Rock, Texas, Austin's largest suburb. Let's compare it to Galveston. As of 2005 the estimated population for Round Rock was 86,316. It has already passed Galveston's population by nearly 30,000 people. Galveston that same year had an estimated 57,466 people. Anyway, I dare anyone to say that Round Rock is as urban or built up as Galveston, let alone larger. Galveston, even though it is a tiny dot on the map, is a very urban city with buildings that are way over 100 years old. Galveston is full of beautiful old neighborhoods full of huge old houses. Round Rock likely couldn't boast either of those. Metro numbers don't lie, city population numbers are always skewed.

Also city limit sizes vary wildly. One city might be hundreds of square miles while another might be just a few square miles while they might both have the same city population. Now which one is more urban? Obviously the one with the smaller city limit size. A good example of this is Boston and Oklahoma City. Boston's city limits is 48 square miles and they have 590,763 people in the city. Oklahoma City has 621 square miles and has 541,500 people. However, Oklahoma City's metro population is only 1,266,445 people, while Boston has 4,455,217 people. Boston and metro is obviously larger than Oklahoma City.

This issue shouldn't even have to come up with you guys, we're all supposed to know about this stuff, more so than your average Joe walking down the street.
So in general terms would you say San Antonio is the 9th or 27th largest city in the U.S.

Also, in general terms lets clarify what an "urbanized" area is. Yes urban equates to density but on a map that shows urbanized area- that is an area that is built up- suburban density is included. Maps that display this will denote a color for a built up area not just the dense area. It may be fragmented, as suburban developement goes but none the less it is still urbanized to some extent. So in the real world of cities and moving through them, there is still a continuous density of most sorts. driving from, lets say for example the southern end of SA near 410 and Gillette Ave. straight up north to Evans Rd. or Stone Oak Parkway (the developed areas) that that length is about 23 miles. In Boston you can travel almost twice that many miles and still be in a continuously developed area. So maps are not truly the real world. Actually being there is. Borders are invisible as such of municipalities surrounding major cities. According to the census SA is the 9th largest city in the US but in reality it is not.
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  #298  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2007, 4:39 AM
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So in general terms would you say San Antonio is the 9th or 27th largest city in the U.S.

Also, in general terms lets clarify what an "urbanized" area is. Yes urban equates to density but on a map that shows urbanized area- that is an area that is built up- suburban density is included. Maps that display this will denote a color for a built up area not just the dense area. It may be fragmented, as suburban developement goes but none the less it is still urbanized to some extent. So in the real world of cities and moving through them, there is still a continuous density of most sorts. driving from, lets say for example the southern end of SA near 410 and Gillette Ave. straight up north to Evans Rd. or Stone Oak Parkway (the developed areas) that that length is about 23 miles. In Boston you can travel almost twice that many miles and still be in a continuously developed area. So maps are not truly the real world. Actually being there is. Borders are invisible as such of municipalities surrounding major cities. According to the census SA is the 9th largest city in the US but in reality it is not.
Actually according to the latest census estimates it's the 7th largest city. We all know that the SA metro isn't nearly as big as other metros in the country...thus the smaller skyline and no NFL team (although I'm sure both of those things will change in the future)...but it's much more pleasing to the mind and our proud San Antonio egos to go around telling everyone that SA is the 7th largest city so that's what I do
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  #299  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2007, 4:43 AM
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Here's a good question. If the SA metro was huge, would SA still be the SA we all know and love? Would a skyline that resembles Dallas or Houston be the SA we all know and love? Nope. I love San Antonio for what it is, and what it will become, but not for what it should be.
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  #300  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2007, 4:53 AM
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I think that all this debating should be taken to a different thread. I pretty shure we can all agree that this isnt the right thread for it and i dont think anyone wants to see it closed because of it.
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