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  #21  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2019, 7:56 PM
Razor Razor is offline
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
yeah upstate new york is beautiful too, but it seems difficult to attract vacationers to the area.
The Fingers Lake region is beautiful!

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Originally Posted by softee View Post
I've always thought of it that way, just like Wasaga Beach is Toronto's Jersey Shore.
Yes to Wasaga Beach..For sure..I just have a hard time thinking that people from Toronto would keep revisiting the Falls at the same frequency as those living in NYC or Philly are re-visiting Atlantic City throughout a given year.Maybe Atlantic City is tired out for them as well.
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  #22  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2019, 8:52 PM
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The finger lakes/west ny and the Canadian side probably suffer from the fact that they are not ‘cottage country’ for any nearby wealthy area.

My impression is that torontonians head north, New Yorkers head to the Hudson valley/Adirondacks, detroiters head to the northern part of the state, etc
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  #23  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2019, 9:14 PM
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The American side not only suffered form industrial decline, but the whole area suffered(kind of like Atlantic City suffered)when it became easy and relatively cheap and quick to get to better vacation areas. Why go to Niagara Falls(except for the Falls)when you can vacation in a much more exotic locale? The climate does not help either.

It has been forever since I was there but I remember the Canadian side being kind of tacky but so much better than the American side. The falls themselves(Horseshoe Falls)are much better on the Canadian side.

With just the falls and gambling being everywhere now, there really is no reason for the area to grow. Hopefully it can get a better/more diversified economy, especially the American side-but I think Niagara Falls, NY has about the same chance of that as Atlantic City-not much. So no, it can not be another Vegas. And one Vegas is enough really when I think about it.
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  #24  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2019, 9:22 PM
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Maine and cape cod manages to make a comeback as summer vacation destinations —why not other locales?
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  #25  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2019, 9:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Maine and cape cod manages to make a comeback as summer vacation destinations —why not other locales?
Did they ever really fall off as much as Niagara Falls and Atlantic City though? Also they don't have some of the same problems like urban decay, etc.

Niagara Falls was the honeymoon capital of the country, and Atlantic City the premier seaside resort. They have really fallen off compared to their heydays.
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  #26  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2019, 9:44 PM
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Atlantic City maybe is in the dumps thanks to corruption , but the entire rest of the jersey shore is basically doing great

Cape May
Belmar
Asbury park!
Ocean grove
Wildwood
Seaside heights
Long Beach island/barnegat

It’s unusual for a whole potential vacation destination to rot away. Usually someone comes in with some capital, spruces up the place, and viola

I would think an asbury park or Hudson valley model would work well in Niagara Falls . Done right the American side could like the asbury park to Niagara Falls, Canada’s Atlantic City
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  #27  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2019, 9:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Atlantic City maybe is in the dumps thanks to corruption , but the entire rest of the jersey shore is basically doing great

Cape May
Belmar
Asbury park!
Ocean grove
Wildwood
Seaside heights
Long Beach island/barnegat

It’s unusual for a whole potential vacation destination to rot away. Usually someone comes in with some capital, spruces up the place, and viola

I would think an asbury park or Hudson valley model would work well in Niagara Falls . Done right the American side could like the asbury park to Niagara Falls, Canada’s Atlantic City
If everything came together right, it might make a comeback of sorts, but it will never be as important a destination as it once was, and it will never be another Vegas, just like Atlantic City(and the rest of the Jersey Shore)will never be the premier resort destination it once was even if Atlantic City does recover some. It was THE seaside resort at one time. It will never have that again. Improvement can possibly occur, but reaching anything close to what they were, or reaching a Vegas level, will never happen imo.

Another question to ask might be will Vegas pull off a Niagara Falls and have a decline?
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  #28  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2019, 9:56 PM
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Are there any casinos within Toronto city limits?
Yes, but right now its a relatively limited one at the Woodbine Race Track in the City's north-west inner burbs.

However that site is rebuilding into a much larger casino/entertainment/shopping complex; a new one is also coming just outside the City limits in the border 'burb of Pickering.
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  #29  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2019, 10:20 PM
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Yes, but right now its a relatively limited one at the Woodbine Race Track in the City's north-west inner burbs.

However that site is rebuilding into a much larger casino/entertainment/shopping complex; a new one is also coming just outside the City limits in the border 'burb of Pickering.
Also all of the horse racing sites are getting live tables and all that jazz too. Mohawk is not too far from Toronto, same with Georgian, Flamborough and Elora Downs. Also have Brantford casino, not too sure about east though. And further north you have Rama.
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  #30  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2019, 10:34 PM
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To compete with Sin City itself, Niagara Falls needs to expand the drinking hours (now 2am only) expand weed legalization (now in Canada only), and adult entertainment options, as a starting point. The casinos need to book more entertainment than 1960s retreads, and push for more "package" deals to keep people there longer.

For families, there are plenty of entertainment options in the area, but people get too focused on just the Falls/Clifton Hill.

Part of the problem for Niagara Falls is that it is a small city between larger cities, not an isolated big city like Las Vegas which is the center of a large region.
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  #31  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2019, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
The finger lakes/west ny and the Canadian side probably suffer from the fact that they are not ‘cottage country’ for any nearby wealthy area.
Rochester and Syracuse people have weekend homes in the Finger Lakes.

But yeah, the Finger Lakes are too far from the NE corridor for the weekend crowd. It's at least four hours from NYC or Phily, assuming no unusual traffic (yeah, right). Boston is too far, and DC is way too far. And if they're coming upstate, it's usually Hudson Valley/Adirondacks.

Finger Lakes are actually amazingly inexpensive considering the dramatic scenery, vineyards, quaint towns, elite colleges, etc. Tons of gorges and waterfalls. Taller waterfalls than Niagara, and the most impressive canyons in the eastern U.S. If the region was within 2.5 hours or so of NYC it would be incredibly expensive.

On the negative side, there's no freeway. And winters are damn cold.
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  #32  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2019, 11:00 PM
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Niagara Falls was the honeymoon capital of the country, and Atlantic City the premier seaside resort. They have really fallen off compared to their heydays.
Because people got richer and airfare got cheaper. The Catskills had hundreds of hotels, Niagara was the honeymoon capital, and AC the beach town, because no one could afford flights, there was no interstate, and people (in urban centers) didn't have cars. These were destinations built by train.
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  #33  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2019, 11:08 PM
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Are there any casinos within Toronto city limits?
There’s one, and they have horses too.
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  #34  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 12:08 AM
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I think one of the keys will be the improved rail link to Toronto and that is slowly coming. Trains are still way too slow and don't run often enough, but the drive is also congested so not that pleasant. On a recent trip to Toronto, I considered a side trip to Niagara but the connection is simply not good enough at the present time. Go Transit and the province of Ontario are planning to improve the rail link but will take years to complete.

I enjoy Niagara and have been there many times. The parks system along the Niagara River gorge is something special. They need to improve the interpretation of the history of the area, which featured many battles during the final war between Canada and the USA. Lundy's Lane (the main street) featured a key battle but only recently got an archway to commemorate that event. There are a number of battle parks along the Niagara parkway including Canada's oldest and tallest monument.

Niagara had a boom about 15 years ago when the Fallsview Casino opened but I think that its heyday was then and hopefully in the future. It is a fallacy to consider its Honeymoon period was its heyday. The attractions are far more diverse today than back in those days.

The tacky side of the Ontario side is something that should never be entirely lost. It is integral part of the history of the city that started with the tight rope walkers of the 19th century.

Niagara Falls will never be Las Vegas, nor should it attempt to be. It will still be an international destination because of the falls but its efforts should focus on making itself more than a weekend destination, which is currently the case to a great degree.
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  #35  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 1:11 AM
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Funny I found this thread, I was in Las Vegas 2 weeks ago, and asked myself the very same question. The closest thing we have to Vegas is Niagara Falls but it will never be Vegas.

One of the few reasons I find is the cold weather and the snow, you would have to design a pedestrian friendly area that would be nice in the summer and shelter you in the winter, something like Freemont street maybe to start. Hell if the two Casino’s where closer, you could start with a promenade full of restaurants, bars and shops like the one between the Flamingo and the Linq.

Also, Niagara, in my opinion, is much more family oriented than Vegas, so not to take away from this, the adult area would have to be separate from the Clifton Hill area, not too far but a few streets apart maybe.

Contrary to Vegas, Niagara has a greater surrounding population so transportation by car will be primary, until the demand is there for more flights at the airport or additional transportation methods to the region.

If they play their cards right, nice things could happen, and that is if there is there is a will for it to happen.
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  #36  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2019, 1:20 PM
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This could have easily been Tijuana, a much better location and climate, if they hadn't made gambling illegal in he 1930's, after Prohibition. During Prohibition, they offered gambling, to lure the Hollywood crowd down there to drink legally and they threw in gambling as well.

Now! If they hadn't made it illegal, Tijuana would have made a much better Las Vegas, even if they had to shift it down to Rosarito Beach, a la Atlantic City.

I lived there for 22 years and it gets pretty damn cold in winter, and too hot in summer, so Tijuana's climate would have been perfect for a large-scale gaming locale.

If you want year-round, you need the climate for that, and Niagara Falls doesn't even qualify.
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  #37  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2019, 2:48 AM
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There's a lot that's different between Las Vegas and Niagara Falls.

First is that the gambling industry developed sooner in Las Vegas. In fact, the gambling machine industry and other similar industries arguably grew exclusively because of Las Vegas, at least for a couple decades. Las Vegas had a near monopoly on gambling in the United States in the 1950s and 1960s.

Second is the general entertainment. Las Vegas has attracted top talent to perform there since the 1950s. Everyone knows about the Rat Pack, and back then, everyone went to Las Vegas to see them perform. Then you had residencies by Elvis, and more modern residencies like Celine Dion. Niagara Falls has never had worldwide talent set up residency like just about every casino in Las Vegas has.

Third is the climate. Las Vegas is nice from September to May, with some occasional cold spells in January and February (but mainly still pleasant winter weather). Niagara Falls is nice from June to October. Winter is cold, and more importantly, very long there. You can be there in April and it may still snow, and even if it doesn't, the falls are partially shrouded by mist that froze over the winter and accumulated into 100-foot high piles. Las Vegas is a nice spring break destination. Ever hear of college kids going to Niagara Falls for spring break?

There are a couple things that Niagara Falls has going for it over competitors. Niagara Falls has the falls. No city has a natural wonder like that right in the city (cities). Second is the park system along the river. A large network of floral parks and scenic vistas enhance the natural beauty of the falls. Atlantic City has beaches, but there are 50 other Jersey Shore towns within a couple hours that people go to. Atlantic City isn't even the most popular; most people go to the Wildwoods, Avalon, Cape May, etc.
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  #38  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2019, 10:15 AM
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There's a lot that's different between Las Vegas and Niagara Falls.
My train of thought was the concept of expanding on what it currently is..An upgrade..It already has the tourists. Make it a two trick town..My head automatically went to gambling and shows, because it was easy I suppose.Having visited both cities, Vegas inspired this idea. the Falls already has too many souvenier shops..It needs more variety to compliment the falls IMO. Especially for the night. s'all..The climate is a huge negative,,Agreed.Not sure if it ideally could pull off the Vegas inspired seasonal thing.

Last edited by Razor; Oct 23, 2019 at 4:15 PM.
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  #39  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2019, 2:09 PM
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One of the nicest times to visit Niagara Falls is in May when the trees and spring bulbs are flowering and before the summer crowds arrive.
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  #40  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2019, 5:44 PM
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I really wish Niagara falls was a shared national park between Canada and the US. The development/cities that exist there now are awful. Too bad they didn't have the foresight back then.
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