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  #1441  
Old Posted May 14, 2018, 5:01 AM
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Originally Posted by TSK18 View Post
Is there any reason the crane would need to reach 486 feet if the tower will top out at 385?
It is a bit unusual to have a crane so high over the top of a building. Typically they're 30 to 50 feet above, but I think the reason the taller crane is so much higher above the building is so it can clear the shorter crane.

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Originally Posted by Fryguy View Post
There is actually no official height yet for this building. It could be 386 or 400, no one knows yet. The Crown might be taller than 40 ft., but the building itself should be at around 350-360
You're probably right. If San Antonio's height allowances are anything like Austin's, the stated height we've seen of 386 feet is likely only talking about the main roof. The mechanical penthouse could be higher, as would be crown since it conceals the mechanical penthouse. In Austin, at least, typically things like mechanical penthouses and roof access stairtowers aren't counted in height allowances/restrictions. They're even sometimes omitted from building elevations, or at least aren't measured even if they are represented.

I remember seeing the building elevations for the Grand Hyatt, but we haven't been lucky enough to see the elevations for the Frost Bank Headquarters.

In Austin, I've been able to go online and pull site plans for nearly every project here so that I could view the building elevations to get the height of the building. They have all of the "new" site plans digitized and uploaded to their website so that you can view them online. For older site plans containing the building elevations, you'd have to do a request to view them. I did that for some of the older buildings here that didn't have their plans available online. I went and viewed the old paper site plans/blueprints themselves, and even had copies printed.

Anyway, a week or so ago I attempted to do the same for San Antonio, hoping I could find them online, but San Antonio doesn't have their's available online, so you have to do an open records request and then go downtown to view them in person. For any of you in San Antonio who wanted to, you could make the request and then go view them in person. When I did it in Austin, I was allowed to photograph them, so I didn't necessarily have to get them printed to have an image of it. I just got some of the printed because I wanted to frame some of them being the geek that I am.

Anyhoo, this is San Antonio's building permit department where you'd go through to be allowed to view them.

http://www.sanantonio.gov/DSD/Online/Search

https://docsonline.sanantonio.gov/DSDDocsOnline/

I may still email the guy back to see if when I did do the records request if they would simply email me some snapshots of the plans, but I doubt people would feel comfortable doing that for someone without having met them first.

I would expect eventually San Antonio will digitize their building plans and have them available online. That would be sweet. Because being able to do that for Austin has been huge not just for gathering building heights, but also for spotting any potential development because of permits that are being filed with the city. We've been able to find out info about developments months and months ahead of the local media. It's kind of funny.
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  #1442  
Old Posted May 14, 2018, 2:51 PM
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  #1443  
Old Posted May 15, 2018, 3:54 PM
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Crane just raised this morning for the last time, it appears.
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  #1444  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 1:29 AM
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Looking at it during sunset on the web cam. Because the outer glass walls are slightly tilted inward as it goes up, it catches a bit more of the sky. It's a cool effect. Looking forward to more sunsets and blue skies on glass all the way up to the crown.
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  #1445  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 1:33 AM
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On another note, they're working on the 21st floor. To the top of the crown is about the equivalent of 5-1/2 more floors. Obviously that's slightly lower than the lower crane, which also happens to be right around the top of the frame on both web cam views, so that's how tall it will be. It's going to have a pronounced effect on the skyline.
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  #1446  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 3:26 AM
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Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown View Post
On another note, they're working on the 21st floor. To the top of the crown is about the equivalent of 5-1/2 more floors. Obviously that's slightly lower than the lower crane, which also happens to be right around the top of the frame on both web cam views, so that's how tall it will be. It's going to have a pronounced effect on the skyline.
No one knows yet now tall the crown will be. The tower should be at around 330 right now.
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  #1447  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 4:58 AM
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  #1448  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 9:10 AM
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^Cool. I've been looking for a photo of it from the Tower of the Americas.

A good building to compare the Frost Bank Headquarters to is the Bank of America Plaza. The reason being that that building is 387 feet - just one foot taller than the Frost Bank Headquarters. The sea level elevation of the Frost Bank Headquarters lot is 654 to 656 feet above sea level while the Bank of America Plaza is 650 to 651 feet above sea level. So, while the Frost Bank Headquarters is a foot shorter than the Bank of America Plaza, it will ultimately appear slightly taller because its lot is at a higher sea level elevation. It probably won't be very noticeable, though since it's only just a few feet. Still, the Bank of America Plaza is a good yardstick to compare the height to. In that pic above, it looks like Frost has a ways to go before its the same height as the Bank of America Plaza.
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  #1449  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas View Post
A good building to compare the Frost Bank Headquarters to is the Bank of America Plaza. The reason being that that building is 387 feet - just one foot taller than the Frost Bank Headquarters.
I've been seeing 400 feet for the FBT as well as 386. Anyone have a source for the official height?
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  #1450  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 2:28 PM
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Originally Posted by theOGalexd View Post
I've been seeing 400 feet for the FBT as well as 386. Anyone have a source for the official height?
(long time lurker, first time poster)

The HDRC application for final approval (March 2017) had an elevation drawing showing the top of the crown at 385'-9"... basically 386'. The roof of the office portion of the tower is listed at 346'-9" with some machine rooms/ elevator penthouses above it (obscured by the crown).
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  #1451  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 5:07 PM
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Taller than the Weston?

From the view atop of my residential building, the Frost tower looks like it might be slightly taller than the Weston! Keeping fingers crossed

Any word on official height??
Or does the height change during the construction process??
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  #1452  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 6:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montirob View Post
(long time lurker, first time poster)

The HDRC application for final approval (March 2017) had an elevation drawing showing the top of the crown at 385'-9"... basically 386'. The roof of the office portion of the tower is listed at 346'-9" with some machine rooms/ elevator penthouses above it (obscured by the crown).
Thanks, first time poster. Welcome to the forum. Stick around.
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  #1453  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 7:08 PM
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Originally Posted by AwesomeSAView View Post
From the view atop of my residential building, the Frost tower looks like it might be slightly taller than the Weston! Keeping fingers crossed

Any word on official height??
Or does the height change during the construction process??
It won't be. It's just angles and elevation. It's just very prominent in our skyline. More prominent than we thought it was going to be.
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  #1454  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 7:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montirob View Post
(long time lurker, first time poster)

The HDRC application for final approval (March 2017) had an elevation drawing showing the top of the crown at 385'-9"... basically 386'. The roof of the office portion of the tower is listed at 346'-9" with some machine rooms/ elevator penthouses above it (obscured by the crown).
Whoa. Can you please post that? Is there a link to that application somewhere? I'd love to see it. Do you recall what the main roof and highest occupied floor heights were?
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  #1455  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by AwesomeSAView View Post
From the view atop of my residential building, the Frost tower looks like it might be slightly taller than the Weston! Keeping fingers crossed

Any word on official height??
Or does the height change during the construction process??
No, I seriously doubt the height could change enough to make it taller than the Weston Centre. They would need to add about 10 floors before that could happen. And if they were to add 10 floors, they'd have to go back to the city again to have their site plan reviewed again for approval.

But, to answer your question, yes, heights can change during the construction process, but rarely. Usually, any changes to the height happen before construction starts, and any changes that happen after are usually for things like mechanical penthouses when minor details are changed. As I said before, mechanical penthouses are omitted from height restrictions/allowances, so sometimes a published height for a building can be the main roof height, and the mechanical penthouse may not be included in the height. I think in the case of the Frost Bank Headquarters that whatever the mechanical penthouse is doesn't matter to the final height since the crown is ultimately going to be higher than the mechanical penthouse, and I see no reason why they wouldn't have reported/published the height of the building without counting the crown. It just wouldn't have made sense.
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  #1456  
Old Posted May 17, 2018, 2:24 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas View Post
As I said before, mechanical penthouses are omitted from height restrictions/allowances, so sometimes a published height for a building can be the main roof height, and the mechanical penthouse may not be included in the height. I think in the case of the Frost Bank Headquarters that whatever the mechanical penthouse is doesn't matter to the final height since the crown is ultimately going to be higher than the mechanical penthouse, and I see no reason why they wouldn't have reported/published the height of the building without counting the crown. It just wouldn't have made sense.
HDRC document (public record) for Frost Tower: https://sanantonio.legistar.com/Legi...0-1763742D8A1D

Page 57 of the application includes a signed and sealed construction drawing. (I don't know legalities of just clipping a portion of the drawing and including it here)
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  #1457  
Old Posted May 17, 2018, 3:07 PM
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Yup, there it is in black and white. 385'-9" to the top of the crown. Lots of other nifty drawings too.
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  #1458  
Old Posted May 17, 2018, 5:50 PM
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No, I seriously doubt the height could change enough to make it taller than the Weston Centre. They would need to add about 10 floors before that could happen.
I agree that there will not be a change of height to where it would surpass the Weston, but if we are talking hypothethicals....it would only take 4-5; not 10.

If people are looking for perspective, take a look at the Bank of America building; it is listed at 387'.
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  #1459  
Old Posted May 17, 2018, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Montirob View Post
HDRC document (public record) for Frost Tower: https://sanantonio.legistar.com/Legi...0-1763742D8A1D

Page 57 of the application includes a signed and sealed construction drawing. (I don't know legalities of just clipping a portion of the drawing and including it here)
Thank you! That was awesome.

So, according to that the heights are:

385 feet 9 inches (386 feet) to the top of the crown.

366 feet 3 inches to the top of the mechanical penthouse roof.

356 feet 10 inches to the elevator machine room.

346 feet 9 inches to the tower roof (this is the main roof).

331 feet 6 inches to level 24.

317 feet 3 inches to level 23.

-

One thing I did notice, is that we've been hearing/reading that the building will have 23 occupied floors, but these elevations show it with 24 floors under the roof. Surely, that must be an occupied office floor. I kind of doubt they'd need to dedicate a whole floor to mechanical equipment. One fear I have is that the building was originally planned with 24 floors, but that they eliminated it somewhere in design/development, which would make the building shorter by losing that floor. I guess we'll have to wait and see until after it tops out so we can count the floors. I think it's more likely that the media reported on 23 floors because that's what the architect/developer told them would be occupied office floors, and we've been assuming that any additional mechanical levels would have to be above the main roof, but that isn't always the case. They can be within the tower under the main roof. In fact, in taller buildings, there can be multiple mechanical levels within the building handling elevator transition floors, especially in mixed use buildings where the top floors are something like hotel or residential with office floors on the lower levels.

Even if the 24th floor is not an occupied space, I would say the building should be listed with 24 floors since that floor is contained under the main roof. It's not a mechanical penthouse (cab) that sticks up above the main roof, it's a whole floor just like the other ones are.
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Last edited by KevinFromTexas; May 18, 2018 at 7:09 AM.
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  #1460  
Old Posted May 17, 2018, 9:01 PM
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Originally Posted by STLtoSA View Post
I agree that there will not be a change of height to where it would surpass the Weston, but if we are talking hypothethicals....it would only take 4-5; not 10.

If people are looking for perspective, take a look at the Bank of America building; it is listed at 387'.
Yeah, you're right. I just threw 10 floors out there. The old height that we've always seen for the Weston Centre is 444 feet, but I've been able to measure it taller than that using Google Earth - and I had always assumed it was taller than that height. The number I came up with in Google Earth was 455 feet. Now that we can see the building elevations for the Frost Bank Headquarters, we would know how many floors they would have needed to add to make it taller than the Weston Centre.

Floors 2 through 23 are 14 feet 3 inches slab to slab. Those are the normal office floors. Floor 24 is a bit higher - 15 feet 3 inches, which may in fact mean that it is a mechanical floor rather than an occupied office floor.

Anyway, the Weston Centre is 69 feet taller than the Frost Bank Headquarters, so you'd need 4.84210526 floors to at least match its height exactly. Rounding up to 5 floors would give you 71 feet 3 inches, and if you added that height to the Frost Bank Headquarters, you'd have 457 feet with 29 floors. So, it would need 29 floors to be taller than the Weston Centre, based on the normal office floors the building has now of 14 feet 3 inches.
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Last edited by KevinFromTexas; May 18, 2018 at 8:52 AM.
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