Winnipeg City Transit/Rapid Transit

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

So the deep thinkers at city hall are already coming up with ideas and solutions for the traffic congestion problems that will occur if/when Portage and Main is opened to...you guessed it: pedestrian traffic.

2500 buses through the P & M intersection daily with 250 at peak hours alone, and yeah let's open it so that the equivalent of two or three busloads of people can cross the corridor and make everyone else wait ten minutes longer on their commutes in....buses!

2500? That seems high. Where is that number from?

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

2500? That seems high. Where is that number from?

My bad the actual number is 2000.

Despite what some wishful thinkers believe there is a thing called cause and effect!

read here:

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...497623771.html

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Thanks

[esquire]

On the face of it, I like the idea of a Fort Street transit corridor. Unfortunately south Main is going to have a hard time ever shaking stroad status... Fort could become the equivalent to Graham for that part of downtown. It could be an improvement regardless of what happens with the P&M barricades.

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

So the deep thinkers at city hall are already coming up with ideas and solutions for the traffic congestion problems that will occur if/when Portage and Main is opened to...you guessed it: pedestrian traffic.

2500 buses through the P & M intersection daily with 250 at peak hours alone, and yeah let's open it so that the equivalent of two or three busloads of people can cross the corridor and make everyone else wait ten minutes longer on their commutes in....buses!

I know transit gets a little crowded at rush hour but I didn't realize you can fit 2000 people on 2 or 3 buses...

I've honestly never seen someone so willing to just ignore real numbers and data and just make up a bunch of complete bullshit to make their argument seem convincing.

I'm sorry that facts are so often inconvenient for you.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

On the face of it, I like the idea of a Fort Street transit corridor. Unfortunately south Main is going to have a hard time ever shaking stroad status... Fort could become the equivalent to Graham for that part of downtown. It could be an improvement regardless of what happens with the P&M barricades.

The Fort St. corridor would solve a problem that doesn't currently exist and create more traffic problems somewhere else.

Too many P & M "just open it" proponents just can't get their heads around the fact that traffic in Winnipeg (rightly or wrongly) is funneled through P & M and downtown!

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by windypeg

I know transit gets a little crowded at rush hour but I didn't realize you can fit 2000 people on 2 or 3 buses...

I've honestly never seen someone so willing to just ignore real numbers and data and just make up a bunch of complete bullshit to make their argument seem convincing.

I'm sorry that facts are so often inconvenient for you.

Oh you mean like pulling out an imaginary figure on how many would cross above ground should P & M open to ped. traffic!

And about ignoring numbers, what about the transit report that suggests major problems if/when P & M is opened, yeah that report that Bowman and "just open it" proponents tend to ignore or forget, I'll call that report the inconvenient truth!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

The Fort St. corridor would solve a problem that doesn't currently exist and create more traffic problems somewhere else.

Too many P & M "just open it" proponents just can't get their heads around the fact that traffic in Winnipeg (rightly or wrongly) is funneled through P & M and downtown!

I like the Fort St. corridor mainly in terms of its potential to create a walkable, pedestrian friendly environment. When combined with opening P&M, it could have quite an impact on the eastern part of downtown... it could turn a pedestrian wasteland into a very different area.

At the very least I think it's well worth considering.

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Oh you mean like pulling out an imaginary figure on how many would cross above ground should P & M open to ped. traffic!

And about ignoring numbers, what about the transit report that suggests major problems if/when P & M is opened, yeah that report that Bowman and "just open it" proponents tend to ignore or forget, I'll call that report the inconvenient truth!

lol this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about .....

The study said 2000 people / hr would cross. You say that number is "imaginary". So a study says something you don't like - must be made-up.

Then you turn around and say there will be big transit problems "because the study said so!!" Maybe the supposed transit gridlock is imaginary too right? Are the studies imaginary or not??

[ywgwalk]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

The Fort St. corridor would solve a problem that doesn't currently exist

Originally Posted by rrskylar

fact that traffic in Winnipeg (rightly or wrongly) is funneled through P & M

So "traffic is funneled through P & M", but reducing the traffic at P & M is "solving a problem that doesn't exist". K.

[bomberjet]

The point that's being missed, which I mentioned a month or two ago, is properly directing traffic around downtown as a general principle. Why do people need to travel through P&M? Why not go around? Regardless if the intersection is opened or not.

People are engrained in their ways, that's why. Don't change a thing.

Anyways, we can fight about this forever. After the vote goes 'no', we can fight about it some more.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

People are engrained in their ways, that's why. Don't change a thing.

That might as well be our civic motto.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The point that's being missed, which I mentioned a month or two ago, is properly directing traffic around downtown as a general principle. Why do people need to travel through P&M? Why not go around? Regardless if the intersection is opened or not.

People are engrained in their ways, that's why. Don't change a thing.

Anyways, we can fight about this forever. After the vote goes 'no', we can fight about it some more.

I think the issue with this idea is that there isn't a suitable way around downtown that is as quick or quicker. If you solve that issue then P&M doesn't become a problem. Making P&M worse so people stop using it isn't good city planning. Making an improved alternative and then opening up P&M is the way to go. too bad there are no plans to improve through traffic. A freeway skirting Downtown would be a goo solution. A ring road with an excessive amount of light standards doesn't count.

[bomberjet]

For me from the northeast.

I could use Logan when heading to the west or far SW. I could use Archibald to Marion to get east or south. Etc. And it's not any slower. It's a choice. That's just me from the NE. I would assume similar routes in reverse order going the other way.

I actually avoid using Main St. when I'm heading from home to south Winnipeg for work. I don't need to deal with it. Take Archibald to Marion then up through the maze along Stradbrook.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by ywgwalk

So "traffic is funneled through P & M", but reducing the traffic at P & M is "solving a problem that doesn't exist". K.

It's called 'kettle logic' and is Freud's favourite logical fallacy.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

For me from the northeast.

I could use Logan when heading to the west or far SW. I could use Archibald to Marion to get east or south. Etc. And it's not any slower. It's a choice. That's just me from the NE. I would assume similar routes in reverse order going the other way.

I actually avoid using Main St. when I'm heading from home to south Winnipeg for work. I don't need to deal with it. Take Archibald to Marion then up through the maze along Stradbrook.

This past week I was traveling a lot between Henderson at CPT and Pembina at McGilvary. As I come down Henderson only real options are Henderson to main which leads to P&M and Princess to smith which is still downtown. When traveling between many inter city neighbourhoods, there are many instances where travelling through downtown is the only real option. Sorry I may have veered a little off topic.

[bomberjet]

Use Princess to bypass P&M. No difference in travel time. Gives you a direct route to Midtown bridge. My grand parents used that route for decades.

Another option would be CPT to Lag to Bishop. A couple minutes longer according to Google.

My point was there are options as opposed to a straight line through P&M.


Sorry for off topic. Blame Glen Murray for talking transit and P&M!

[buzzg]

I like the idea of Fort being another transit/pedestrian mall, if it was in a vacuum – however I just don't see how you connect it to Main to go north or south to St. Mary's without stupidly running busses through the Exchange, or making a mess of P&M connections as well as Broadway.

[bomberjet]

You'd have to change up the routes. There would be no main St connections anymore. They'd be on Fort. you could connect to cross routes at the cross streets. It could be done. RT though union station would be another factor. Perhaps the Fort thing could be a spin-off of the highline route. Separate them a bit if that makes sense.

Downtown needs a transportation study as a whole. Peds, bikes, cars, transit, everything.

Yes I know another study.. But it could look at eliminating one-ways, which lots of people talk about. Routing traffic on certain streets to reduce congestion if possible. Just make it more efficient.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

You'd have to change up the routes. There would be no main St connections anymore. They'd be on Fort. you could connect to cross routes at the cross streets. It could be done. RT though union station would be another factor. Perhaps the Fort thing could be a spin-off of the highline route. Separate them a bit if that makes sense.

Downtown needs a transportation study as a whole. Peds, bikes, cars, transit, everything.

Yes I know another study.. But it could look at eliminating one-ways, which lots of people talk about. Routing traffic on certain streets to reduce congestion if possible. Just make it more efficient.

Been saying this on here for a while. So many parts of things being discussed but no one is looking at anything holistically. The proposed changes to Waterfront/Izzy Asper; SWBRT connections to Main/Union and eventually EBRT; looking at two-way-ing Edmonton/Kennedy/Vaughn; all AT connections; Graham improvements; opening P&M; etc.

I also think York should have a two-way bike lane connecting The Forks to U of W, and eliminate going through the middle of Railside to get to Stephenson>Provencher. Actually use William Stephenson as the main route to St. B.

It'd be foolish to make any of these decisions individually – we really do need an all-modes transportation study of downtown neighbourhoods and the connections beyond.