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  #1  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2024, 1:23 PM
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Q4 2023 GDP, 50 States & DC

Released Friday, March 29, 2024

Not bad USA.

Perusing through nominal growth rates for 2023 show rather solid growth for the year--Florida posted peak China-esque growth last year, a whopping+9.8%! for 2023, Washington state also posted big y-o-y numbers(+8.6%)---as far as the 2 largest state economies, TX(+6.7%) and CA(+6.1%) are much closer as far as GDP growth then what I thought would be the case. California has likely surpassed $4T this current quarter-The Golden State just refuses to die I guess

In any event...

GDP Q4 2023
CA--$3,944,376
TX--$2,636,423
NY--$2,189,391
FL--$1,622,626
IL--$1,102,071
PA--$987,637
OH--$890,207
GA--$821,989
WA--$820,074
NJ--$817,354
NC--$783,202
MA--$750,435
VA--$722,502
MI--$670,690
TN--$534,217
CO--$532,489
MD--$521,159
AZ--$521,027
IN--$507,424
MN--$480,190
MO--$430,369
WI--$422,896
CT--$347,560
SC--$330,779
OR--$322,887
LA--$315,827
AL--$306,820
KY--$283,273
UT--$279,568
OK--$259,544
IA--$251,481
NV--$247,105
KS--$230,727
NE--$180,930
AR--$178,238
DC--$178,136
MS--$148,242
NM--$133,489
ID--$122,047
NH--$113,589
HI--$109,850
WV--$101,685
DE--$95,414
ME--$93,145
RI--$79,040
ND--$74,914
SD--$73,262
MT--$72,037
AK--$68,712
WY--$51,210
VT--$44,005

US--$27,956,998

Page 9 of this PDF:
https://www.bea.gov/sites/default/fi...4q23-a2023.pdf
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  #2  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2024, 9:26 PM
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Did we pass Germany yet? Can we pass Japan before 2030?
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  #3  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2024, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by veep View Post
Did we pass Germany yet? Can we pass Japan before 2030?
Japan is at 4.2T and Germany at 4.4T so CA is getting really close to becoming the third largest economy after the rest of the US and China.
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  #4  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2024, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by dimondpark View Post
Released Friday, March 29, 2024

Not bad USA.

Perusing through nominal growth rates for 2023 show rather solid growth for the year--Florida posted peak China-esque growth last year, a whopping+9.8%! for 2023, Washington state also posted big y-o-y numbers(+8.6%)---as far as the 2 largest state economies, TX(+6.7%) and CA(+6.1%) are much closer as far as GDP growth then what I thought would be the case. California has likely surpassed $4T this current quarter-The Golden State just refuses to die I guess
The thing is nominal growth is useless. First, there is the inflation which is high on the US. Secondly, there is the price variation of a big product the state produces. For instance, oil: a state might produce the same amount but prices might have fallen by 20%. It will be 0% real growth, but nominal will be -20%.

The United States GDP has grown 2.5% in 2023. Real growth for states will all probably between 1% and 4%. None got nowhere near two-digit.

In fact, the US growth has been modest and very regular for a very long time. Between 2010-2019, the highest was 3% in 2018 and the lowest 1.6% in 2011. Excluding 2020-2021 (Covid), back to this long-term normal: 1.9% (2022) and 2.5% (2023).



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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Japan is at 4.2T and Germany at 4.4T so CA is getting really close to becoming the third largest economy after the rest of the US and China.
That illustrated what I said above. We had tons of articles saying Germany surpassed Japan in 2023 because there was recession in Japan. That's false and it was Germany that was in recession, the only developed economy doing it since 2020 (Covid). It shrank by -0.3%. Japan, on the other hand, had a very good 1.9%.

What happened then? Yen devaluated badly due Japanese negative interest rates and no inflation while the USD and Euro were up due the hike of their interest rates coupled with high inflation.
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  #5  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2024, 3:06 PM
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Wow, Cali will be #3 very shortly. I didn't realize it was so close. Pretty cool to have one state with a bigger economy than anyplace outside of China (and obviously U.S.).

India will almost certainly pass Cali one day, but I think it can stay at #4 indefinitely.
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  #6  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2024, 7:05 PM
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"US growth was modest"

Meanwhile, America's GDP of 27 Trillion is heading towards 30 Trillion or the current equivalent to:
14 Russias
13 Canadas
13 Brazils
nearly 9 Frances
8 UKs
7 Indias
6 Germanys
6 Japans
1.5 Chinas
(IMF 2023 nominal GDP forecast)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...y_GDP_(nominal)
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  #7  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2024, 7:33 PM
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The rest of America is holding us down!
This bodes well for the budget I hope and since countries that produce less than California get to have HSR...it's only fair we do too. How cool would it be for Texas (where do they stand?) and other states to eventually get into the global top 10?
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  #8  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2024, 7:50 PM
JoninATX JoninATX is offline
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Originally Posted by TWAK View Post
The rest of America is holding us down!
This bodes well for the budget I hope and since countries that produce less than California get to have HSR...it's only fair we do too. How cool would it be for Texas (where do they stand?) and other states to eventually get into the global top 10?
Texas currently sits behind France as the World's 8th largest economy.
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  #9  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2024, 7:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JoninATX View Post
Texas currently sits behind France as the World's 8th largest economy.
When Texas gets to 7th, technically that gives us 3 spots within the G7. The US might need its own international group if we have other states getting into the top 10, and that's kind of unfair we have two states in the top ten lol.
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  #10  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2024, 9:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Wigs View Post
"US growth was modest"
The EU economy is now about 70% of the U.S. economy. The EU economy used to be larger.

The GDP per capita ratio is approaching 2:1.

I spent about 1/3 of my life in (West, then Western) Germany, 2/3 in U.S. The countries used to have pretty similar levels of household prosperity. Now it's an aching gap, where, returning home, you feel like the Beverly Hillbillies at an Appalachian reunion. I have cousins who are MDs in Germany, who would make much more working as garbage men in NYC. Hell, they'd make much more as garbage men in Cleveland.

The U.S. can't build anything, has the most f---ked up politics in the developed world, is a health calamity, and is the global mecca for weirdos and nuts, but still does a pretty good job of making people prosperous.
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  #11  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2024, 9:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
The EU economy is now about 70% of the U.S. economy. The EU economy used to be larger.

The GDP per capita ratio is approaching 2:1.

I spent about 1/3 of my life in (West, then Western) Germany, 2/3 in U.S. The countries used to have pretty similar levels of household prosperity. Now it's an aching gap, where, returning home, you feel like the Beverly Hillbillies at an Appalachian reunion. I have cousins who are MDs in Germany, who would make much more working as garbage men in NYC. Hell, they'd make much more as garbage men in Cleveland.

The U.S. can't build anything, has the most f---ked up politics in the developed world, is a health calamity, and is the global mecca for weirdos and nuts, but still does a pretty good job of making people prosperous.
I find so weird as you call yourself a progressive while looks like a proud nationalist who believe your country is the best just because you happen to live there. The gap between the US and other developed countries didn’t increase at all be in terms of real income or other marks such as health or education.

In fact, the only gap that increased was life expectancy, in this case the US is left behind and it’s now on developing country levels.

You can have a good life up there in NYC, but that doesn’t mean all the rest of the US is the same there are plenty of people struggling. I myself have a much higher standard of living than the average American, but I’ll not assume that’s the same for all the other people in my country. That would be silly.
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  #12  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2024, 9:35 PM
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I find so weird as you call yourself a progressive while looks like a proud nationalist who believe your country is the best just because you happen to live there.
I've definitely made no such claims. Never claimed to be progressive, never claimed to be nationalist, never claimed U.S. is "best".

It's indisputable that the U.S. is (strictly materially) the richest society in the history of humanity. And even with the rise of the developing world, the U.S. share of global economy is the same in 2024 as it was 50-60 years ago, while almost all other developed nations have seen their shares drop.
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  #13  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2024, 9:42 PM
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And even with the rise of the developing world, the U.S. share of global economy is the same in 2024 as it was 50-60 years ago, while almost all other developed nations have seen their shares drop.
^^This is the critical point that so many people fail to understand.

We arent on the gold standard anymore. Fiat money value is all relative to the total supply and the valuation. If either the value of the currency drops (inflation) or your % share of the total supply decreases, then You Are Now Poorer, the end.

If more people realized this, maybe we would protest more about massive government bailouts and tax breaks for the wealthy, because they are, *literally* wealth transfers from the poor/miiddle class to the rich. And thats what american corporations and the US dollar system has done to Europe (and the american middle class, too)



For anyone who says "but thats just money, nothing in the physical world has changed!! european standard of living is the same!!", then to that i say, yeah have fun with that when a corporatioon buys your mom's house. Because thats what they're doing with that money. sorry.
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You guys are laughing now but Jacksonville will soon assume its rightful place as the largest and most important city on Earth.

I heard the UN is moving its HQ there. The eiffel tower is moving there soon as well. Elon Musk even decided he didnt want to go to mars anymore after visiting.
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  #14  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2024, 9:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I've definitely made no such claims. Never claimed to be progressive, never claimed to be nationalist, never claimed U.S. is "best".

It's indisputable that the U.S. is (strictly materially) the richest society in the history of humanity. And even with the rise of the developing world, the U.S. share of global economy is the same in 2024 as it was 50-60 years ago, while almost all other developed nations have seen their shares drop.
Do you realize you cannot look at GDP, specially in a country whose currency is the world reserve and make assumptions on how rich an individual is on the ground, right?

Take a look on GDP growth rates of the US (check the 25 year button): https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...ear-gdp-growth and compare to random developed countries like Britain: https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...ear-gdp-growth or Canada: https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/...ear-gdp-growth

That's how you measure a GDP growth evolution: not looking at GDP converted on US Dollars or ignoring things like inflation that's widely different from country to country. Materially speaking, the US is not an outlier on the past 25 years and income gap between it and other developed economies didn't growth as you implied.

An no, Germany is not Appalachia. It's a country with very low unemployment rates, a more egalitarian society and with very good health and education standards.
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Old Posted Apr 1, 2024, 5:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I've definitely made no such claims. Never claimed to be progressive, never claimed to be nationalist, never claimed U.S. is "best".

It's indisputable that the U.S. is (strictly materially) the richest society in the history of humanity. And even with the rise of the developing world, the U.S. share of global economy is the same in 2024 as it was 50-60 years ago, while almost all other developed nations have seen their shares drop.

For my entire life, I have constantly heard from both Republicans and Democrats that "America is on the wrong track!" while the place just keeps getting wealthier and wealthier. While people argue in public about stupid stuff, "the system" just keeps working in the background.
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Old Posted Mar 31, 2024, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
The EU economy is now about 70% of the U.S. economy. The EU economy used to be larger.

The GDP per capita ratio is approaching 2:1.

I spent about 1/3 of my life in (West, then Western) Germany, 2/3 in U.S. The countries used to have pretty similar levels of household prosperity. Now it's an aching gap, where, returning home, you feel like the Beverly Hillbillies at an Appalachian reunion. I have cousins who are MDs in Germany, who would make much more working as garbage men in NYC. Hell, they'd make much more as garbage men in Cleveland.

The U.S. can't build anything, has the most f---ked up politics in the developed world, is a health calamity, and is the global mecca for weirdos and nuts, but still does a pretty good job of making people prosperous.
I got a chuckle out of that. And it's true too.
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  #17  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2024, 3:42 AM
Velvet_Highground Velvet_Highground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
The EU economy is now about 70% of the U.S. economy. The EU economy used to be larger.

The GDP per capita ratio is approaching 2:1.

I spent about 1/3 of my life in (West, then Western) Germany, 2/3 in U.S. The countries used to have pretty similar levels of household prosperity. Now it's an aching gap, where, returning home, you feel like the Beverly Hillbillies at an Appalachian reunion. I have cousins who are MDs in Germany, who would make much more working as garbage men in NYC. Hell, they'd make much more as garbage men in Cleveland.

The U.S. can't build anything, has the most f---ked up politics in the developed world, is a health calamity, and is the global mecca for weirdos and nuts, but still does a pretty good job of making people prosperous.

That’s a bit of a scary statement sounds a boast from the late Roman Republic. I like money prosperity & success should be rewarded but in my view The Unites States of America is the successor of the Roman Republic and we need to not forget the lessons of history. Augustus was a good leader holding all military power while letting the democratic institutions govern non frontier provinces it was generally a peaceful & prosperous time after the civil wars. The 5 good emperors and Pax Romana was another good time but a lot of the post republican leaders were mediocre at best and s**tshows at worst and there was no recourse. The level of people thinking dictatorship might not in the be so bad in the US should be terrifying.

Mike Duncan wrote a great book centered from the rise and assassination of the Gracchi to the collapse of the republican army system. The republic was built on the citizen soldier/farmer but as wars dragged men further from their homes for longer periods if they didn’t sack and plunder they often came back to foreclosure.

The rise of Gaius Marius the breakdown traditional republican army was when a Gallic Tribe with Germanic allies went on a rampage along the northern Mediterranean coast and army after army of Romans was crushed. Enlistment was part of your civic duty but by this time the bar had been lowered to eliminating almost all property qualifications. Romans armed themselves traditionally though a military industrial complex grew up around the Punic Wars supplying the state with arms and armor to continue to fight Hannibal.

Gaius Marius won great acclaim after beating a client who kept bribing his way out of charges of bribery & the legions seemed to drag their feet catching him. Marius got his second in command Sulla after cornering but never catching Jagurtha to sit for peace talks with his cousin who killed Jagurtha for rule of modern day Algeria.

Anyways the Kimbry were defeating legion after legion and Marius who shared none of the fame of the victory with Sulla opened up recruitment to all men. Many the sons and grandsons of farmers who were forced to sell their lands and become impoverished in the cities. This professional army was trained and led to victory against an army who seemed invincible. He birthed the professional Roman Army loyal to its leader who brought it victory & riches rather than to the senate.

Marius went a little senile in his old age and started a war with his younger protege over who would lead the new eastern war Marius lost the appointment and killed a few enemies and declared Sulla an enemy of the state. Sulla after winning in modern Turkey came back to fight the old wily Marius but Marius died as plans to fight were being made many of his successors who survived Sullas sack of Rome and “prescriptions” you like that guys wife and his villa “Hey Sulla he’s a Marian supporter” it was nasty.

The final collapse of the Sullan constitution leads to gridlock and the Triumvirate along with the death of the republic.

I’m not saying we’re Rome 50bc but that path is open to us if all that matters in America is money and the power to acquire more money. It’s a tough deal operating with a constant nation debt has become an avenue for gridlock while a national reinvestment is going to be more and more expensive the longer we wait. It’s above my pay grade but we can make things here we just make more outsourcing and the extra profits drive up stock prices which benefit ruthless decision making. The stagnation of the US middle class which hasn’t made any more money since the 80’s with the exception of 2022 adjusted for inflation is potentially libel to give the whole system the middle finger.

I’ll quote Mike Duncan from his Revolutions podcasts about the French Revolution & and advice to his home country. He says to the rich you can keep making a F**k ton of money in the future by giving up a little now. There are other reforms like our military spending and offshore tax loopholes that can help pay to rebuild infrastructure that will benefit commerce as a whole, though with the right leadership.
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Last edited by Velvet_Highground; Apr 1, 2024 at 3:52 AM.
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  #18  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2024, 5:46 AM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
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is a health calamity

It's amazing that the U.S. dominates economically when so many of its citizens are wildly unproductive.
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  #19  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2024, 9:31 PM
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Yuri Yuri is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigs View Post
"US growth was modest"

Meanwhile, America's GDP of 27 Trillion is heading towards 30 Trillion or the current equivalent to:
14 Russias
13 Canadas
13 Brazils
nearly 9 Frances
8 UKs
7 Indias
6 Germanys
6 Japans
1.5 Chinas
(IMF 2023 nominal GDP forecast)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...y_GDP_(nominal)
You realize your post has nothing to do with the quote, right?

The fact of the US GDP being large has nothing to do with the pace of its growth. There are plenty of very tiny economies growing very fast.

And yes, the US growth rate averaged around 2% on the past 15 years and that’s modest compared to the US itself between the 1990’s and 2008 which was above 3%.

Even though waving flag is not only dated, but very tacky, it’s plain obvious the US has plenty of economic issues which is reflected on its current political climate and social divide.
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  #20  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2024, 9:23 PM
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Actually, I'm off. The divergence is even larger.

In 2008, the EU and U.S. were essentially even.

By 3Q 2023, the EU had a GDP of 15 trillion, U.S. has a GDP of 27 trillion. Italy is essentially as materially prosperous as Mississippi and Germany is essentially as materially prosperous as Oklahoma.
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