The US Census Bureau thread

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by badrunner

It's just the blatant dishonesty and cherrypicking that I and others take issue with. Hell, I've posted plenty of unflattering streetviews of run down areas in LA like the Fashion District and Compton, so I don't mind showing the ugly side, in its proper context.

We could do a little experiment. Here is Central LA, more or less. Drop the pin at various locations at random a few dozen times and let me know how many places resemble Alvarado street, much less "slummy parts of Mexican cities." If you have some real life experience, seen the world a bit, there's no way you would make those kinds of comparisons, so I can't help but think that some people are sheltered and/or not very well traveled.

Wow, your LA map pick was my old hood in the early 1980s. I owned a 1908 shingled bungalow on South Ardmore at 2nd St. for about five years. The area north of 6th was not yet even considered to be part of Koreatown back then, but it was incredibly diverse in terms of population. I moved down to LA from SF around that time, and I bought in that neighborhood thinking (naively) that it was destined for rapid gentrification. The house is still there and looks mostly unchanged, but it is now Zillowed at over $1 million! I paid $120K back then and sold it five years later to a woman coming over from Hong Kong. I sold it for about the same price I paid in 1980. I don't disagree with your assessment of that part of town. It has a lot going for it, and most of the residential areas have a kind of raggedy LA charm that is not at all Third World. Wilshire was on the skids back when I lived there and only got worse once subway construction started. It looks 10 times better today, especially the area around Wilshire/Western. I haven't been back lately, but I understand there is a lot of midrise residential construction in the area. Sure hope the area does not get over-run with homeless tents, etc. There were a few visible homeless in the area back when I lived there, but nothing like today.

[badrunner]

Must have been pretty bad in the 80s. I remember in the 90s anything south of 8th street in that area was a no-go zone. That's why it doesn't really faze me at all to see a little trash and graffiti on the streets today. Kids these days have no idea how bad things used to be. I think there is a generational divide in how people perceive LA, especially among younger transplants who often come here with a rosy image of the city. They think it's all glitz and glamour, but if you're old enough to remember seeing the riots on TV, you probably have a very different image of the city. And remember all those 90s movies that depicted LA as this hellish, polluted ghetto? Good times.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by badrunner

It's just the blatant dishonesty and cherrypicking that I and others take issue with. Hell, I've posted plenty of unflattering streetviews of run down areas in LA like the Fashion District and Compton, so I don't mind showing the ugly side, in its proper context.

We could do a little experiment. Here is Central LA, more or less. Drop the pin at various locations at random a few dozen times and let me know how many places resemble Alvarado street, much less "slummy parts of Mexican cities." If you have some real life experience, seen the world a bit, there's no way you would make those kinds of comparisons, so I can't help but think that some people are sheltered and/or not very well traveled.

Exactly. I could easily find some awful looking palces in Chicago or DC (or other cities) to cherry pick stuff but I don't.

As I've said before most of Koreatown's residential streets are dense, ordinary streets. There's nothing slummy about them, and anyone saying otherwise is just misleading for whatever reason. Is it Beverly Hills? No. It's not a upper class neighborhood. But it's not a mess like Edale is trying to say with a FEW snapshots.

I lived there for a year. Never saw anything crazy, never in danger, nothing.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by badrunner

Must have been pretty bad in the 80s. I remember in the 90s anything south of 8th street in that area was a no-go zone. That's why it doesn't really faze me at all to see a little trash and graffiti on the streets today. Kids these days have no idea how bad things used to be. I think there is a generational divide in how people perceive LA, especially among younger transplants who often come here with a rosy image of the city. They think it's all glitz and glamour, but if you're old enough to remember seeing the riots on TV, you probably have a very different image of the city. And remember all those 90s movies that depicted LA as this hellish, polluted ghetto? Good times.

Yea, I dont buy this at all. LA's image in TV, movies and music has always been a mix of good and bad since the 1970s, at least. Anyone who thinks it's all Beverly Hills has been living in a cave, or never watches/listens to entertainment.

In fact, I just took my Chicago buddy for a small tour of the city, and he loves it and wants to come back. Before he came here the first time, he kinda assumed there were gangs everywhere, and the city was kinda shitty cause of crime movies and rap music . So it goes both ways.

If you talk to locals in LA, they think the city's never been better and talk about how certain neighborhoods in central, east and south LA are very different, in a good way. Not that it doesnt have issues like homeless though.

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Exactly. I could easily find some awful looking palces in Chicago or DC (or other cities) to cherry pick stuff but I don't.

As I've said before most of Koreatown's residential streets are dense, ordinary streets. There's nothing slummy about them, and anyone saying otherwise is just misleading for whatever reason. Is it Beverly Hills? No. It's not a upper class neighborhood. But it's not a mess like Edale is trying to say with a FEW snapshots.

I lived there for a year. Never saw anything crazy, never in danger, nothing.

Anyone who complains about seeing "street vendors selling any and everything on the sidewalks" I'll take their words with a grain of salt. That's some scary big city stuff right there

[LA21st]

Right.
If that's their opinion, that's fine. But don't take a FEW snapshots and say this is what it is. That's bs and other cities posters HAVE and will take the same issues with the same thing.
I remember Houston posters upset about downtown pics of downtown Houston parking lots for God's sakes. So this is not a LA thing.

[edale]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Right.
If that's their opinion, that's fine. But don't take a FEW snapshots and say this is what it is. That's bs and other cities posters HAVE and will take the same issues with the same thing.
I remember Houston posters upset about downtown pics of downtown Houston parking lots for God's sakes. So this is not a LA thing.

How did LA ever survive without you? The part of central LA west of the 110, north of the 10, south of Santa Monica (really Sunset), and east of Western is largely dumpy, in my opinion.

Compared to central neighborhoods in the 'favored direction' out from downtown in other peer cities (i.e. north for Chicago, NW for DC, basically all of NE San Francisco), this part of LA falls way flat. Compared to some of the Asian cities that look like they're from the future, it falls way flat.

I don't really care if some internet stranger thinks I'm uncultured for finding the sale of...bootleg? stolen? laundry detergent and shit on the sidewalk unbecoming of a first-world, aspiring alpha city. Sorry, but sidewalks cluttered up with tents and trash is not something I find aesthetically pleasing. I don't find fast food restaurants (with drive thrus) and crappy single story retail outlets with half their merchandise displayed on the sidewalk appealing urban amenities. Perhaps we just have different standards.

This conversation is ultimately extremely dumb. I was responding to someone who said that a Korean friend remarked that s/he found LA's Ktown and surrounding areas to be dumpy. I merely agreed and that was going to be that until LA's very own Jesus Christ swooped in and saved the day. Thank god for you, LA21st

[LA21st]

Again, that's not what you did. If that's all you did, I could care less.
You decided to show the worst sections of Westlake/Koreatown because...?

And like Bladerunner, I'm not the only who's noticed.

Nobody said Koreatown/Westlake was LA's favored qtr. Nobody. It's a poor part of the city, for the most part. I don't know what you're expecting...? I'm sure it's gonna transition into something else in the next 10 years, but right now it's a working class place.
LA's not built like Chicago or DC , which is obvious to anyone.
Could I find dumpy areas of Chicago/NYC/DC etc outside of their favored qtrs? Duh. Should I find the trashy streets of the Bronx or Queens on google maps for you? I could, but why?
And if I did, I'm sure NYers would question the same thing. Hell, Chicagoans didn't like I called Albany Park "Gritty", so this is not a LA thing.

[edale]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Again, that's not what you did. If that's all you did, I could care less.
You decided to show the worst sections of Westlake/Koreatown because...?

Nobody said Koreatown/Westlake was LA's favored qtr. Nobody. It's a poor part of the city, for the most part. I don't know what you're expecting...?
LA's not built that way, which is obvious to anyone.
Could I find dumpy areas of Chicago/NYC/DC etc outside of their favored qtrs? Duh. Should I find the trashy streets of the Bronx or Queens on google maps for you? I could, but why?
And if I did, I'm sure NYers would question the same thing. Hell, Chicagoans didn't like I called Albany Park "Gritty", so this is not a LA thing.

because, like I've said now multiple times, I was agreeing that this part of the city looks gross in a lot of places. So I picked gross areas to demonstrate that point. And West from downtown is definitely LA's 'favored quarter'. There's a whole long thread about the topic here you should check out. Maybe you could open a new argument there about LA not bearing any resemblance to Houston or LA not having a single negative attribute.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by dktshb

LA is a great place to live but not so great place to be a tourist. If you do your homework a tourist trip to LA can be amazing but it is a better trip very well planned first.

Although crime is not as bad as many major cities in the US the blight, poverty and "third world" characteristics of big parts of the city are like nowhere else in the US. I can see how a tourist caught up in this can be blown away and shocked by this.

I took my kids to LA this year to play "tourist". We moved from OC when they were babies (to Denver) so they'd never really done the LA tourist thing. We had a wonderful time! Stayed in Beverly Grove, walked to the Farmer's Market, explored Hollywood, went to Universal, Malibu, hung out on the Santa Monica Pier, rented bikes and went down to Venice Beach, went to Chinatown, downtown, the Getty.... but then I know where I'm going and what to expect.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by edale

because, like I've said now multiple times, I was agreeing that this part of the city looks gross in a lot of places. So I picked gross areas to demonstrate that point. And West from downtown is definitely LA's 'favored quarter'. There's a whole long thread about the topic here you should check out. Maybe you could open a new argument there about LA not bearing any resemblance to Houston or LA not having a single negative attribute.

You picked the crappiest street in Westlake/Koreatown. I posted residential neighborhood streets, which you predictably ignored. Those are more common scenes in the area, then Alvarado street, which is known to have serious problems by most.

I do point out LA's flaws. I did in this thread. I even said I don't really like Westlake/Alvarado a few pages back, so what are you talking about? I sure as hell don't like Skid Row and stay far from it.

I don't think you'd find many people saying Westlake is part of LA's favored qtr. That would make it damn near 18 miles, which makes no sense. But you're the guy who thinks everyone thinks LA is Beverly Hills, which is nonsense to anyone paying attention to ...life.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

I took my kids to LA this year to play "tourist". We moved from OC when they were babies (to Denver) so they'd never really done the LA tourist thing. We had a wonderful time! Stayed in Beverly Grove, walked to the Farmer's Market, explored Hollywood, went to Universal, Malibu, hung out on the Santa Monica Pier, rented bikes and went down to Venice Beach, went to Chinatown, downtown, the Getty.... but then I know where I'm going and what to expect.

Yea, if you know where to go, tourists really enjoy it. If you don't, it might not be as good. But that's probably true for many places

[badrunner]

That area hasn't been the city's favored quarter in 70-80 years, and it's a little strange to be complaining about drive thrus and commercial corridors being too auto-oriented in LA of all places. That is one of the defining characteristics of the place, going back over a hundred years. The whole city was conceived with a very different and (at the time) revolutionary idea of urbanity.


https://waterandpower.org/museum/Ear...lshire_Western

[LA21st]

Lol, no kiddng.
No idea what he was talking about.
LA wasnt' designed to be like Chicago or something, and the central neighborhoods aren't as desirable. But we've known this for decades. Is it strange it's different? Maybe.

LA's favored qtr probably starts at Hanock Park going west, if anything. I guess you could make a "ring" of the hilly neighborhoods of Los Feliz/Silver Lake going towards the Arts District/historic core, but it defintely wouldn't include westlake.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by badrunner

Must have been pretty bad in the 80s. I remember in the 90s anything south of 8th street in that area was a no-go zone. That's why it doesn't really faze me at all to see a little trash and graffiti on the streets today. Kids these days have no idea how bad things used to be. I think there is a generational divide in how people perceive LA, especially among younger transplants who often come here with a rosy image of the city. They think it's all glitz and glamour, but if you're old enough to remember seeing the riots on TV, you probably have a very different image of the city. And remember all those 90s movies that depicted LA as this hellish, polluted ghetto? Good times.

Link is to streetview of my old house on South Ardmore. Can't believe it has a current estimated value of over $1million! The shingles had been stuccoed over probably in the 1950s. The only thing that has changed since I owned it is the security grill across the front porch. It was really a neat house inside with tons of redwood cabinetry and other features from the early 1900s. The surrounding blocks are mostly unchanged from the late 1980s except that many of the homes are now renovated. My neighborhood was mostly home to multi-generational family households, almost all foreign born, from all over the planet. There was usually enough money in the household to support an aspirational immigrant lifestyle. I biked (recreationally, usually stoned on pot, some of it grown in the backyard) all over the place from my house to USC, downtown, Silverlake, etc. I never felt in any real danger. None of the area felt like a true "no-go zone". Maybe that came later in the 90s after I left, but I think it might have been exaggerated.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0708...i16384!8i8192?

[jd3189]

I like the areas around Koreatown since it has consistent density, whether or not it’s the favored quarter or whatever subjective measure means nothing to me. LA is a unique city for its kind. Although it is car centric, it still functions as a cohesive place you can get lost in. The only other city in this country that gives me that same feeling is NYC.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by badrunner

That area hasn't been the city's favored quarter in 70-80 years, and it's a little strange to be complaining about drive thrus and commercial corridors being too auto-oriented in LA of all places. That is one of the defining characteristics of the place, going back over a hundred years. The whole city was conceived with a very different and (at the time) revolutionary idea of urbanity.


https://waterandpower.org/museum/Ear...lshire_Western

Wilshire & S. WIlton?

[badrunner]

I believe so. https://goo.gl/maps/FDEHnKuLdH4j3Spu7

I totally would have blown past that red light Didn't even see it at first. The roads (and cars) were deadly back then...

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by austlar1

Link is to streetview of my old house on South Ardmore. Can't believe it has a current estimated value of over $1million! The shingles had been stuccoed over probably in the 1950s. The only thing that has changed since I owned it is the security grill across the front porch. It was really a neat house inside with tons of redwood cabinetry and other features from the early 1900s. The surrounding blocks are mostly unchanged from the late 1980s except that many of the homes are now renovated. My neighborhood was mostly home to multi-generational family households, almost all foreign born, from all over the planet. There was usually enough money in the household to support an aspirational immigrant lifestyle. I biked (recreationally, usually stoned on pot, some of it grown in the backyard) all over the place from my house to USC, downtown, Silverlake, etc. I never felt in any real danger. None of the area felt like a true "no-go zone". Maybe that came later in the 90s after I left, but I think it might have been exaggerated.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0708...i16384!8i8192?

Nothing like baking and biking in the city

You were probably ok just riding around during the day even in the worst of times, especially on major thoroughfares.

Isn't it crazy that property is only assessed at $367k in 2019. Gotta love prop 13

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by badrunner

Nothing like baking and biking in the city

You were probably ok just riding around during the day even in the worst of times, especially on major thoroughfares.

Isn't it crazy that property is only assessed at $367k in 2019. Gotta love prop 13

The Chilli Pepper's "Under the Bridge" was a hit back in that era. I felt very connected to some of the lyrics ("Sometimes I feel like / My only friend / Is the city I live in / The City of Angels / Lonely as I am / Together we cry") as I baked and biked my way around that part of LA. That is when I really fell in love with LA.