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  #81  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 8:20 AM
JAYNYC JAYNYC is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Have there ever been any discussions about the various municipalities of Hudson County merging into a single city?

I have to believe that the area would get more attention if it were unified under a single city brand.
Are you not familiar with the area? It has that - it's called Jersey City.
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  #82  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 9:18 AM
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Originally Posted by JAYNYC View Post
Are you not familiar with the area? It has that - it's called Jersey City.
No, Jersey City is one of 10+ independent municipalities within the larger Hudson County. What is being suggested here is that all of the municipalities in Hudson County merge with JC to form a single consolidated city/county, as is the case with many other cities.
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  #83  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Have there ever been any discussions about the various municipalities of Hudson County merging into a single city?

I have to believe that the area would get more attention if it were unified under a single city brand.
It should honestly probably be incorporated into New York City as a sixth borough, although doing that across state lines would be pretty difficult.
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  #84  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 10:51 AM
TKallDAY TKallDAY is offline
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Originally Posted by JAYNYC View Post
Yes (lived there for 5 years).
Convenient.


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No more so than Denver.
^Factually incorrect.


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Originally Posted by JAYNYC View Post
Thank you for sharing your opinion.
Sort of like how you find the Denver to Houston comparison laughable or pretty much anything you've said.


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I've been to Denver numerous times, have ventured into those neighborhoods and as a result, am aware that the city offers that type of environment adjacent to its downtown.

Guess what? So does Austin.
Nowhere near to the extent of Denver. Not even close. Actually laughable. But you'd know that if you had been.


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^ Mistake #1
Nah, just an educated guess.


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"Most locals avoid that area" because its littered with homeless encampments, sketchy individuals and rampant drug use, not because it lacks prewar development or walkability (I know this because I walked straight through it en route to the Denver Art Museum).
Civic Center Park is a park with the capital building on one side and the city hall on the other. Nothing else. It's not even really a neighborhood or area people go to. Weird you even brought it up or used it as an example of anything other than going to the art museum.


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As someone who lived in Houston for three years...
How convenient.


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Interesting that you find the core of a metro with 7+ million residents and among the nation's fastest growing to be "literally a ghost town everywhere", while Denver's core, on the other hand, is some sort of dense, walkable urban paradise. During my most recent visit to Denver (last month), I found it to be the same exact "ghost town" you described Houston to be. I'd love to hear your impressions of Charlotte, Atlanta, Phoenix, etc.
That's exactly what I'm saying. This has nothing to do with population amounts. This has to do with population density.

Factually, Denver's population density is higher than any city you've mentioned. But you're obviously into cherry picking figures to boost your propaganda. Curious why you'd leave that out considering you're so into numbers.

DT Denver or any of it's central neighborhoods being described as "ghost towns" is utterly ridiculous. Houston's core on the other hand...


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Originally Posted by JAYNYC View Post
Thank you for your concern. For future reference, where would you suggest I stay to ensure I get the extreme walkable / bikeable, vibrant urbanesque experience you claim is so prevalent there?
No concern of mine. Keep doing you.

Last edited by TKallDAY; Feb 29, 2020 at 11:53 AM. Reason: Figured I'd play along.
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  #85  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 1:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JAYNYC View Post
Are you not familiar with the area? It has that - it's called Jersey City.
I'm aware of the existence of Jersey City (a city of ~250,000 in Hudson County, NJ). However, my point was about ALL 12 of Hudson County's individual municipalities merging into a single 46 sq. mile city with ~700,000 people.

It wouldn't fundamentally change a whole lot on the ground, but from a branding perspective it would probably serve to raise the profile of this very urban corner of America that currently flies pretty far below the radar.

For whatever reason, counties in the US don't seem to get much branding traction, with a few exceptions like SoCal's OC.

But even without a county merger, JC is already becoming a pretty big deal on its own. Its skyline is growing pretty fast. Including U/C towers, it will soon have a larger skyline than any midwest city not named Chicago. I don't think that most forumers here would expect that.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Feb 29, 2020 at 2:13 PM.
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  #86  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 2:53 PM
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Hudson County is just part of the NYC metro. Not sure why it should be categorized as some distinct urban entity.

Also, while Hudson is, by far, the densest/most urban county, it isn't that Hudson County is uniquely urban, it's that the waterfront parts of Jersey adjacent to Manhattan are urban, and Hudson encompasses much of this area. But adjacent areas of Bergen and Essex aren't less dense/urban; their countywide numbers are lowered because they're bigger counties with large suburban sections.
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  #87  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 3:19 PM
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Yeah, where do you put Providence, for example? Pretty under the radar for anyone outside of the Northeast, but in terms of the size and scope of its continuous walkable urbanity (and subjectively, in terms of quality IMO), Providence tops cities with metros 3-4x its size.
Providence is a hidden gem. Downcity and Federal Hill punch well above their weights in walkabilty/ urbanity.
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  #88  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 3:47 PM
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so basically there is a 90% chance we are going to have to rebuild all our cities some time in the future. or is the us going to just become a country that is full of small towns and let the big cities fall apart? we will never know unless we live 200 years somehow.
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  #89  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 4:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Yeah, where do you put Providence, for example? Pretty under the radar for anyone outside of the Northeast, but in terms of the size and scope of its continuous walkable urbanity (and subjectively, in terms of quality IMO), Providence tops cities with metros 3-4x its size.

And there's another category I just completely forgot about: the smaller but very urban cities - Providence, New Orleans, Charleston, etc. They obviously lack the heft of many of those larger cities, but the average resident is still probably living a more urban lifestyle.



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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
I'm aware of the existence of Jersey City (a city of ~250,000 in Hudson County, NJ). However, my point was about ALL 12 of Hudson County's individual municipalities merging into a single 46 sq. mile city with ~700,000 people.

It wouldn't fundamentally change a whole lot on the ground, but from a branding perspective it would probably serve to raise the profile of this very urban corner of America that currently flies pretty far below the radar.

I don't think it's the small municipalities that hamper Hudson County's profile so much as it is that's it directly beside New York without actually being a part of New York. That's still going to be the case whether it's called Hudson City or if just stays as Jersey City & Friends.
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  #90  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 5:30 PM
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I guess if Hudson County were one city it would definitely have a bigger and better profile even in NYC compared to what the individual municipalities have now. But it's hard for me to think of it as a real peer urban experience to SF or Boston or DC. I like Jersey City and Hoboken (they are walkable to each other and might as well be the same city). But the commercial/retail areas are quite small compared to "real cities" like Boston or SF. A lot of the fun and work is outsourced to Manhattan.
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  #91  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 5:55 PM
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Originally Posted by park123 View Post
But it's hard for me to think of it as a real peer urban experience to SF or Boston or DC. I like Jersey City and Hoboken (they are walkable to each other and might as well be the same city). But the commercial/retail areas are quite small compared to "real cities" like Boston or SF. A lot of the fun and work is outsourced to Manhattan.

Well, that's because they aren't their own cities - they're suburbs of New York. Functionally, they're pretty much just as much a part of the city as Brooklyn or Queens are (just with poorer transit connections).
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  #92  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 6:10 PM
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LA and Dallas are largely in the same boat as Denver, their urban cores are relatively small and act more like a novelty to the overall city.
In regards to LA that has to be one of the most ill informed, false, ignorant comments I have heard in the 15 years I have been a member of this forum.
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  #93  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 6:25 PM
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In regards to LA that has to be one of the most ill informed, false, ignorant comments I have heard in the 15 years I have been a member of this forum.
The vast majority of the things written here are ill informed. I'm convinced a few of these posters are Google Maps street view warriors. It's weird to me to throw opinions around online regarding places you've never been to or hardly know and disguise them as facts.
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  #94  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 6:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bossabreezes View Post
In my opinion, if it were a borough, it would land between Brooklyn and Queens in terms of sheer urbanity, density and desirability. It's location is superior and closer to Manhattan than most places in Brooklyn and all other Boroughs. It's also become quite a trendy place, and it's booming currently. Especially Jersey City.
Probably more like something between Queens and Staten Island. It has dense neighborhoods, but a lot of them are cut off from each other by highways and access points funneling traffic into Manhattan. It's nowhere near intact as Brooklyn, and does not have the scale of uninterrupted connectivity that Queens has, either.
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  #95  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 6:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TKallDAY View Post
The vast majority of the things written here are ill informed. I'm convinced a few of these posters are Google Maps street view warriors. It's weird to me to throw opinions around online regarding places you've never been to or hardly know and disguise them as facts.
Yep, and I agree with you about Denver over Houston. Of course Houston is a much larger city than Denver and is in a different league than Denver, but Denver iis much easier to get around by transit. Nice that you can take the train right from the airport to downtown. You can do a nice trip to Denver and not have to rent a car. Heck, in LA you can't get to Downtown from any airport, but that will change in about 3 years.
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  #96  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 6:54 PM
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Originally Posted by park123 View Post
I haven’t been to DT LA for a long time, but I was looking at some walking video of there on YouTube and the vibe kind of reminded me not of Manhattan, but of Williamsburg Brooklyn actually. Of course there are way more tall buildings, but it seems very hister-ish in terms of people on the street and businesses.

Which makes we wonder, what is the Manhattan of LA? Still the westside?
DTLA is definitely not Williamsburg by any stretch, nor is Williamsburg really even hipster anymore (Williamsburg isn't really "cool" anymore). DTLA does have some bars and restaurants targeting urban affluent millennials, but it's basically like a block of what you would find in Williamsburg.
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  #97  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 7:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
I'm aware of the existence of Jersey City (a city of ~250,000 in Hudson County, NJ). However, my point was about ALL 12 of Hudson County's individual municipalities merging into a single 46 sq. mile city with ~700,000 people.

It wouldn't fundamentally change a whole lot on the ground, but from a branding perspective it would probably serve to raise the profile of this very urban corner of America that currently flies pretty far below the radar.

For whatever reason, counties in the US don't seem to get much branding traction, with a few exceptions like SoCal's OC.

But even without a county merger, JC is already becoming a pretty big deal on its own. Its skyline is growing pretty fast. Including U/C towers, it will soon have a larger skyline than any midwest city not named Chicago. I don't think that most forumers here would expect that.
Before 9/11 there probably wasn't a single building in Jersey City over 10 stories. Because of 9/11, Jersey City basically became what the city wanted to do with Long Island City in the early 1990s.
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  #98  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 7:26 PM
TKallDAY TKallDAY is offline
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Originally Posted by dktshb View Post
Yep, and I agree with you about Denver over Houston. Of course Houston is a much larger city than Denver and is in a different league than Denver, but Denver iis much easier to get around by transit. Nice that you can take the train right from the airport to downtown. You can do a nice trip to Denver and not have to rent a car. Heck, in LA you can't get to Downtown from any airport, but that will change in about 3 years.
Bingo. Never once did I claim Denver was larger or even in the same league with Houston when it comes to national importance. However, in the context of this discussion, Denver is tiers above Houston when it comes to pedestrian friendliness and street activity. It boggles my mind that anyone would claim otherwise if they've had any relevant experience in either city. Saying the contrary doesn't add up. It would be like me stating definitively that Denver had more to do, see, eat, etc than LA. That wouldn't make any sense and, if serious, would be based solely on my efforts to find these things from city to city or from talking from inexperience.

Last edited by TKallDAY; Feb 29, 2020 at 7:56 PM.
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  #99  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 7:38 PM
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Before 9/11 there probably wasn't a single building in Jersey City over 10 stories. Because of 9/11, Jersey City basically became what the city wanted to do with Long Island City in the early 1990s.
That's not true. JC has prewar 30 floor highrises, and there was an explosion of office/residential development in the 1980's-1990's.

I don't think 9-11 had much to do with anything in JC specifically, though obviously it massively harmed the overall region for a few years.
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  #100  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2020, 7:42 PM
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he means exchange place, not the historic core of JC
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