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  #141  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Migs View Post
How does one explain that a country like the USA, that doesn’t have a carbon tax, is decreasing their carbon emissions on a greater scale than the majority that have signed onto the Paris Agreement. hmmm
Californina and BC have also decreased their carbon emissions without federal govt.s slapping a tax on carbon!
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  #142  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 4:20 PM
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even if gas went to 10$ a leter i would still need to drive 100kms or more a day for my communte. living closer to work is not an option as i am allready as close as u can in the summer. otherwise i would be illegaly living in the bush or in a toxic waste dump.

as for ev's i dont think they would last to long at my work as all the roads are made of tailings witch is acidic ph 2....
That's my argument 1ajs, this carbon tax punishes those in rural Canada unfairly when they have no alternative transportation options. The environmentalists would tell you to walk or buy a horse!
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  #143  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 4:53 PM
Curmudgeon Curmudgeon is offline
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Originally Posted by 1ajs View Post
even if gas went to 10$ a leter i would still need to drive 100kms or more a day for my communte. living closer to work is not an option as i am allready as close as u can in the summer. otherwise i would be illegaly living in the bush or in a toxic waste dump.

as for ev's i dont think they would last to long at my work as all the roads are made of tailings witch is acidic ph 2....
If gas was $10/litre and you got 8L/100km fuel economy (30 mp U.S. gal., pretty average for highway driving and way over what the typical half ton or SUV gets) it would cost you $80 to do a 100 km commute or $160 if your commute was 100 km each way, that's $400 to $800 per week. Unless you were clearing huge dollars, you wouldn't be able to afford to keep your job.

And that's not as uncommon as you think. I know a guy that commutes daily from Emerson, another from Lac du Bonnet and a few people that commute daily from the Beausejour area.
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  #144  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 5:17 PM
J-Walker J-Walker is offline
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
Tried to like this post!

The notion that increase in gasoline prices will discourage driving is completely bunk, gas prices have been high in Europe for decades and people still pay and drive just as much.
Actually, no they don't - you couldn't be more wrong. They don't drive even comparably as close to as much as North Americans do. Look at the transportation data from European countries, this is just a fact.

An yes, if you increase the price of a good, people will demand less of it, its basic economics. The relationship between a good's demand and price is its price elasticity. Its a fundamental tenant of free market economics, and has been proven over and over again. There is no debate surrounding this.

So basically, you are 0 for 2 on this one.
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  #145  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 5:45 PM
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Actually, no they don't - you couldn't be more wrong. They don't drive even comparably as close to as much as North Americans do. Look at the transportation data from European countries, this is just a fact.

An yes, if you increase the price of a good, people will demand less of it, its basic economics. The relationship between a good's demand and price is its price elasticity. Its a fundamental tenant of free market economics, and has been proven over and over again. There is no debate surrounding this.

So basically, you are 0 for 2 on this one.
More BS, with higher gasoline prices in Europe people have adjusted to spending more on fuel with their disposable income, gasoline, home heating, food are all essentials where the laws of supply and demand argument doesn’t fly.

The Liberal backed population that live in the golden horseshoe and Quebec City/ Windsor corridor have access to some of the best public transportation in Canada so yeah Imposing a carbon tax effects them less, in true Liberal fashion the rest of the country be damned!

And I already have mentioned there are lot more public transportation alternatives in Europe that don’t exist here, how about increasing the amount of public transportation instead of penalizing people from getting from one place to another!
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  #146  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 6:01 PM
Curmudgeon Curmudgeon is offline
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
More BS, with higher gasoline prices in Europe people have adjusted to spending more on fuel with their disposable income, gasoline, home heating, food are all essentials where the laws of supply and demand argument doesn’t fly.

And I already have mentioned there are lot more public transportation alternatives in Europe that don’t exist here, how about increasing the amount of public transportation instead of penalizing people from getting from one place to another!
Distances are shorter and public transport infrastructure is light years ahead. For example, few people in Greater London who work in Central London drive to work. Plus, the climate is much milder, Stockholm for example, which is farther north than Churchill, has similar winter temps to Windsor, Ontario. Most of northern Europe and the British Isles have similar winter temps to Vancouver or Victoria. No major European city west of the Urals, even including Murmansk at 68°N , is as cold as Winnipeg in the winter.
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  #147  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 6:03 PM
J-Walker J-Walker is offline
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
More BS, with higher gasoline prices in Europe people have adjusted to spending more on fuel with their disposable income, gasoline, home heating, food are all essentials where the laws of supply and demand argument doesn’t fly.

And I already have mentioned there are lot more public transportation alternatives in Europe that don’t exist here, how about increasing the amount of public transportation instead of penalizing people from getting from one place to another!
Stop with the nonsense -- supply and demand does apply to essential goods. They just have a more inelastic demand curve, and because they are not substitute-able, price movements tend to result in greater changes to personal behavior than for easily substitute goods. When the price of gas goes up, because there is no substitute, you conserve gas. You do this by either driving less, or driving a more fuel efficient vehicle. Both of which Europeans do to a comparatively much greater degree than North Americans.

And you are kind of shooting yourself in the foot with the public transit argument. In Europe, gas taxes fund a very large portion of the public transit systems in many countries -- how do you think they pay for those kind of things. Basically high gas prices and car ownership costs, provide an incentive for people to change their behaviors and and use public transit which is in part funded by the high gas taxes.

You are basically arguing yourself in a circle.
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  #148  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 6:12 PM
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Originally Posted by J-Walker View Post
Stop with the nonsense -- supply and demand does apply to essential goods. They just have a more inelastic demand curve, and because they are not substitute-able, price movements tend to result in greater changes to personal behavior than for easily substitute goods. When the price of gas goes up, because there is no substitute, you conserve gas. You do this by either driving less, or driving a more fuel efficient vehicle. Both of which Europeans do to a comparatively much greater degree than North Americans.

And you are kind of shooting yourself in the foot with the public transit argument. In Europe, gas taxes fund a very large portion of the public transit systems in many countries -- how do you think they pay for those kind of things. Basically high gas prices and car ownership costs, provide an incentive for people to change their behaviors and and use public transit which is in part funded by the high gas taxes.
You are basically arguing yourself in a circle.
You seem to have enough knowledge of economics to know that supply and demand variables can be easily manipulated as well right?

So who exactly is driving less, just those at the very bottom of the socio economic scale? Admit it.

It Athens they tried to force people to drive on only alternate days, that worked for five minutes until people starting buying two vehicles to get around this!
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  #149  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 6:38 PM
Curmudgeon Curmudgeon is offline
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^

My experience from living in the U.K. is that people do not use their cars for all of their transport needs and that the cars are smaller and more efficient. It's not like here where people go 1/2 km to a drive-thru to buy a cup of coffee, or in the winter start up the car and warm it for 10-15 mins. to drive the kids 4 or 5 blocks to school.

You're right in saying that there are not necessarily fewer vehicles. Canada has 670 vehicles per 1,000 people compared with 695 for Italy or 631 for Poland. The U.S. is 833 and Australia 747.
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  #150  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
^

My experience from living in the U.K. is that people do not use their cars for all of their transport needs and that the cars are smaller and more efficient. It's not like here where people go 1/2 km to a drive-thru to buy a cup of coffee, or in the winter start up the car and warm it for 10-15 mins. to drive the kids 4 or 5 blocks to school.

You're right in saying that there are not necessarily fewer vehicles. Canada has 670 vehicles per 1,000 people compared with 695 for Italy or 631 for Poland. The U.S. is 833 and Australia 747.
It's also the whole way cities are built in Europe as opposed to Canada and the US, denser cities are easier to get around by means other than auto, that's pretty obvious. It's just that you can't impose Euro model carbon pricing when everything is fundamentally different here, but that's the Liberal way, one size fits all!
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  #151  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 6:57 PM
J-Walker J-Walker is offline
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
You seem to have enough knowledge of economics to know that supply and demand variables can be easily manipulated as well right?

So who exactly is driving less, just those at the very bottom of the socio economic scale? Admit it.

It Athens they tried to force people to drive on only alternate days, that worked for five minutes until people starting buying two vehicles to get around this!
Yes, it is called the cobra effect, and its a good example for proving my point. They had a choice to either use a pricing mechanism (like increasing gas taxes or congestion pricing) to reduce the amount of people on the road, or use policy regulation (like limit the days people can drive). They chose to use regulation and it failed (because people can often game the regulations), where as countries that used pricing mechanisms have had much better success in reducing the numbers of drivers on the road.
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  #152  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 7:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
That's my argument 1ajs, this carbon tax punishes those in rural Canada unfairly when they have no alternative transportation options. The environmentalists would tell you to walk or buy a horse!
theres another carbon tax credit for those outside of cma's fyi.
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  #153  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 7:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
If gas was $10/litre and you got 8L/100km fuel economy (30 mp U.S. gal., pretty average for highway driving and way over what the typical half ton or SUV gets) it would cost you $80 to do a 100 km commute or $160 if your commute was 100 km each way, that's $400 to $800 per week. Unless you were clearing huge dollars, you wouldn't be able to afford to keep your job.

And that's not as uncommon as you think. I know a guy that commutes daily from Emerson, another from Lac du Bonnet and a few people that commute daily from the Beausejour area.
also helps geting paid by the km if round trip for work is more then 40km's
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  #154  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 7:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
More BS, with higher gasoline prices in Europe people have adjusted to spending more on fuel with their disposable income, gasoline, home heating, food are all essentials where the laws of supply and demand argument doesn’t fly.

The Liberal backed population that live in the golden horseshoe and Quebec City/ Windsor corridor have access to some of the best public transportation in Canada so yeah Imposing a carbon tax effects them less, in true Liberal fashion the rest of the country be damned!

And I already have mentioned there are lot more public transportation alternatives in Europe that don’t exist here, how about increasing the amount of public transportation instead of penalizing people from getting from one place to another!
its really hard to compare europe to north amarica though. 741.4 million people in all of europe compared canada only having 36million... while the us has 327million...
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  #155  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 8:19 PM
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Good read in Maclean’s. You know. That Liberal rag.

Pretty much says it al.

https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/10-g...ing-in-canada/
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  #156  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 9:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 1ajs View Post
its really hard to compare europe to north amarica though. 741.4 million people in all of europe compared canada only having 36million... while the us has 327million...
And 1.4 billion in China with 4.4 billion in all of Asia, another one billion plus in India another 1.3 Billion on the African continent guess what, none have a carbon tax!

So what Canada does is practically insignificant on a world scale!
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  #157  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 9:31 PM
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Good read in Maclean’s. You know. That Liberal rag.

Pretty much says it al.

https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/10-g...ing-in-canada/
Damn, are you trying to convert me!
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  #158  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2019, 5:50 PM
EdwardTH EdwardTH is offline
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
You seem to have enough knowledge of economics to know that supply and demand variables can be easily manipulated as well right?

So who exactly is driving less, just those at the very bottom of the socio economic scale? Admit it.

It Athens they tried to force people to drive on only alternate days, that worked for five minutes until people starting buying two vehicles to get around this!
LOL people at the very bottom of the socio economic scale don't own cars, they're already walking or taking the bus so this doesn't affect them at all. You need some perspective.
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  #159  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2019, 6:55 PM
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^ some people are so out of touch with reality
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  #160  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2019, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by EdwardTH View Post
LOL people at the very bottom of the socio economic scale don't own cars, they're already walking or taking the bus so this doesn't affect them at all. You need some perspective.
All I can say is wow! Just wow! Maybe it’s you that needs some perspective. WOW!
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