104 King St (Ryan Block)

[flatlander]

Councillor Jenny Gerbasi
June 7, 2007
Dear Friends,


A Special meeting has been called of the Standing Committee on Property and Development to hear the following:

King Building (formerly Ryan Building), 104 King Street - Request to Remove From Buildings Conservation List (Point Douglas Ward)

WHEN: Monday, June 11th, 11:00 AM

WHERE: West Committee Room, 2nd Floor, 510 Main Street

For information about how to register and how to access the agenda when it is published please contact Carol Freeman at 986 3157 or cfreeman@winnipeg.ca

Thank you for your interest in Civic Issues!
Cheers!
Jenny

[HomeInMyShoes]

Don't do it Winnipeg. Don't do it. Have a spine. Although it may not be an overly remarkable structure the larger point is that an area is not just composed of a few great examples. It's the streetscape itself that needs to be preserved as well.

Is this the building in question?

[The Jabroni]

F**king slumlord that guy... if that building gets torn down, I swear...

If Reiss actually has the balls to redevelop that block to a restaurant, a store of some sort, a pub, or something, then he'd be getting more bang for his buck, rather than a parking lot, because if he builds that parking lot, or parkade, or whatever the f**k he wants to build there to replace that building, then his plans will backfire, and I'll assure that.

[good_dude]

I would suggest anyone who can go down should speak in defence of the building. I will be at work at that time

[Archiseek]

It's a disgrace - that's a lovely building - nice roundheaded windows on lower level and good decorative brickwork and stringcourse.

I would kill to own that building.

It they let him demolish that, it's a fucking crime against the city.

[fengshui]

So far, appearing at the June 11 hearing by P&D are Reiss, Cindy Tugwell (Heritage Winnipeg) and Dudley Thomson (Prairie Architects). If Prairie are shilling for Reiss, they go on the blacklist.

BTW, some interior photos can be seen in the Wolfram Engineering report on the building at the City webpage.

[1ajs]

if they tear it down don't give him a permit to build his parking........

[drew]

From Tom Brodbeck - obviously a friend to heritage buildings everywhere...

King Building baloney

By TOM BRODBECK

A city council committee's decision this week to block the demolition of the rotting, derelict King Building in the Exchange District -- preventing its owner Bedford Investments from developing the site -- is a perfect example of why this city has such trouble growing its population, its wealth and its downtown.

Here's a Winnipeg real estate company that manages property in the Exchange District that wants to tear down a very old building that even engineering reports say is unsafe and beyond repair. And the city wants to stop them.

They want to stop them in the name of preserving virtually every "heritage" building in this city -- a misguided and unrealistic position the city and its preservationist nutbar friends have advanced in Winnipeg for so long, it's killing the downtown.

The King has sat empty for 17 years. Its owners have tried to de-list it from heritage designation twice as far back as 1992 to develop the site. But they've been blocked both times.

They want to help develop the area with private equity, move the city forward, make it more attractive and the city says "no" to progress.

So there it sits like a festering boil in the heart of the Exchange, kitty-corner from Old Market Square, making the area look much crappier than it needs to be.

The city says Bedford can demolish parts of the building as long as it keeps the facade -- the face of the building.

Well, the facade is so deteriorated scaffolding has been set up in front of the building so pieces of it don't fall on the heads of passersby.

I held pieces of the crumbling, boarded-up building in my hands yesterday.

This thing's a safety hazard.

The irony is when Bedford Investments bought the building in the late 1980s -- when it was about 100 years old -- it didn't even have a heritage designation. That was imposed on the owners, on their private property, after they bought it.

Now they want the owners to use their own money to redevelop the building at their cost. And for what?

The Exchange is teeming with historic buildings, many of which are well-preserved and developed for commercial use. It's great that we can keep some of them and maintain the area's designation as a national historic site.

But we can't save every facade and every historic building in Winnipeg.

It's just not realistic.

If city council wants to rally around something of historical meaning, why don't they save Upper Fort Garry, one of the most historically significant structures in Manitoba that's been rotting behind a Winnipeg gas station and used as a urinal and a Lysol can depot for years.

If the city truly wants the downtown and the Exchange to blossom, they're going to have to drop this idea that every building over 100 years old is worth saving.

We have to let some of them go, especially the ones dropping pieces of facade on our heads. There's only so much of the past we can preserve.

[HomeInMyShoes]

I'll pick a city (that I'm currently living in) that has the same issues as Winnipeg, but on a larger scale: St. Louis. Here's an example of stuff that is being saved.



Seems similar in condition to the Ryan Block. There's even been a couple of buildings collapse while being renovated in St. Louis, but they are trying and they realize that character isn't individual buildings, it's the whole streeetscape. You know what Tom, there's plenty of parking lots to develop in Winnipeg. Go buy one of those.

If all Bedford ever wanted to do was bulldoze and redevelop then why wait until the city redesignates the property to do it? Rezoning and redesignation happens in all cities, not just Winnipeg.

And a couple more to show stuff that was obviously falling on people and what could be:





Western Canada has so little heritage. I hope Winnipeg stands firm. Winnipeg has the opportunity to be something no other city West of Toronto can be and pandering to the whim of every developer is not the way to go.

I love development, cranes, new buildings and shiny architecture, but I think Winnipeg would be making a mistake. Just an original Prairie boys opinion.

[h0twired]

What Winnipeg lacks is the economy.

Most businesses in Winnipeg are cheap and would rather save money by occupying office space in suburbia (with free parking) than exist in a building downtown. So unfortunately there is a real lack of demand for downtown commercial real estate.

Lack of business downtown results in a lack of residential demand as well.

If the city was healthy economically these buildings wouldn't be sitting vacant in the first place.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

I'll pick a city (that I'm currently living in) that has the same issues as Winnipeg, but on a larger scale: St. Louis. Here's an example of stuff that is being saved.



Seems similar in condition to the Ryan Block. There's even been a couple of buildings collapse while being renovated in St. Louis, but they are trying and they realize that character isn't individual buildings, it's the whole streeetscape. You know what Tom, there's plenty of parking lots to develop in Winnipeg. Go buy one of those.

Interestingly enough the "Ludwig Lofts" building has been vacant since 1990 and it was announced over 3 years ago that the lofts were going to be developed and still nothing is happening.

http://www.builtstlouis.net/opos/ludwig.html

Do you know what the lofts are selling for?

Here is an article from 1999 talking about the Ludwig Lofts.

http://www.danieltseng.com/lofts.htm

Are you sure these buildings are actually being saved? There have been a number of developers in Winnipeg to "say" a lot of things and do very little.

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by h0twired

Are you sure these buildings are actually being saved? There have been a number of developers in Winnipeg to "say" a lot of things and do very little.

Proving the point that St.Louis is every bit just like Winnipeg.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by h0twired

What Winnipeg lacks is the economy.

Most businesses in Winnipeg are cheap and would rather save money by occupying office space in suburbia (with free parking) than exist in a building downtown. So unfortunately there is a real lack of demand for downtown commercial real estate.

Lack of business downtown results in a lack of residential demand as well.
.

that is actually not true at all....winnipeg has one of the highest percentages of downtown employment in north america.

old data, but the point is made:

http://www.demographia.com/db-intlcbddens.htm


our economy is also doing very well when compared to the national average and the economic growth rates of other canadian cities.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by h0twired

What Winnipeg lacks is the economy.

Most businesses in Winnipeg are cheap and would rather save money by occupying office space in suburbia (with free parking) than exist in a building downtown. So unfortunately there is a real lack of demand for downtown commercial real estate.

Lack of business downtown results in a lack of residential demand as well.

If the city was healthy economically these buildings wouldn't be sitting vacant in the first place.

You are completely correct... if Winnipeg wants to have a vibrant exchange Winnipeg's economy needs to be improved a great deal.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by trueviking

that is actually not true at all....winnipeg has one of the highest percentages of downtown employment in north america.

old data, but the point is made:

http://www.demographia.com/db-intlcbddens.htm


our economy is also doing very well when compared to the national average and the economic growth rates of other canadian cities.

yes, but Winnipeg's downtown is large in area, which still has alot of unused or underused buildings. If they are to reborn into modern use there has to be enough demand to attract investment, otherwise some buildings will just be left to die and surface lots will continue to be seen as a viable economic use for unwanted space.

Your misinterpetation of this (old) data is also not completely correct, as government workers make up nearly half of the working population in the downtown. The government can not be expected to fill most of the older buildings in Winnipeg. It will be the role of private investment to carry the cost and private individuals & business to fill them. That is really reflected by the strength of the economy.

I do agree that things are really improving as of late.

[trueviking]

^agreed...the physical size of winnipeg's downtown is the single biggest enemy causing lower density, it is not the economy or lack of downtown employment....the city is well above the national average for both.

the simple fact is that for a city of 700 000 the downtown is too large and the corresponding economic pressure cant sustain it.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by trueviking

^agreed...the physical size of winnipeg's downtown is the single biggest enemy causing lower density, it is not the economy or lack of downtown employment....the city is well above the national average for both.

the simple fact is that for a city of 700 000 the downtown is too large and the corresponding economic pressure cant sustain it.

Yeah ... its funny, but when I was walking around Chicago's downtown, it dawned on me that its very dense downtown didn't seem significantly larger in land area. So maybe if Winnipeg could grow by 10X its population it might be greatly improved.

Since thats not a real possibility we must focus on changing attitudes of Winnipegers towards the downtown and also make it a much more attracive place to own and run a business and a safe and clean place to live. I think most of the exchange could be converted into viable buildings used for office, retail and condos --- if the economy exsisted.

Note: economy is the study of choices. This is really where the challenge lies. How do we create conditions which pushes people to choose and invest in downtown?

[Pootkao]

i wrote a few emails on the topic of the ryan block to various relevant parties. even russ wyatt, that lazy populist wanker, took the time to write me back with his support for diligent preservation. impressive.

i wonder if we should form a hit squad to take out Reiss, just in case things go from bad to worse? i nominate 1ajs. get on yer bike, cock yer guns, and take that sucka OUT!







(dear officer: this post is a joke. please take those cuffs off me.)

[drew]

I thought biguc was our resident SSP assassin?

[drew]

And another gem from Brodbeck. Looks like he's trying the fire up the CJOB grumpy old man crowd for a fight!

Put up that parking lot
Like it or not, Winnipeggers will be driving their cars downtown

By TOM BRODBECK

Apparently some people don't like the fact that a multi-storey parkade could replace the crumbling King Building in the Exchange District.

The last thing we need is another parking lot downtown, they say.

But I wonder how those same folks plan to accommodate the 2,000 new Manitoba Hydro workers who will move downtown next year into their new Portage Avenue digs, especially when those staff have been encouraged to drive to work with parking subsidies?

Bedford Investments, which owns the dilapidated King building on the corner of King Street and Bannatyne Avenue, wants to tear it down and build a multi-level parkade with street-level commercial space.

Sounds good to me.

Parking in that area is horrible during business hours and the downtown is facing a parking crunch.

But the anti-developers don't like that idea. Many have contacted me after my Tuesday column about the King Building saying they don't want another stinkin' parking lot. They want to keep old, rotting buildings instead.

They want us all to take the bus and reduce the number of parking lots downtown, not expand them.

That would be great in a perfect world. But it's not going to happen.

Winnipeg is a car city and while we should continue to promote transit as an alternative, the reality is people are going to continue to drive downtown to work.

Manitoba Hydro is even encouraging its 2,000 employees to drive downtown once their new building is in place.

Employees will be given a transportation subsidy of about $53 a month that they can put towards parking costs.They can put it towards a bus pass, too. But let's face it, most people are going to drive.

Which means we need parking. Otherwise it's going to be parking mayhem downtown during working hours.

Part of improving the downtown is getting more people to work and live there. But you can't do that if you can't accommodate parking. That's just reality.

ARCTIC-LIKE WINTERS

You're simply not going to convince hordes of people in Winnipeg to leave their vehicles at home, especially not during our arctic-like winters.

People may think they want to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by using their vehicles less.

But stand on Portage Avenue on any given day and watch the thousands of vehicles go by headed downtown with one driver in them. It's at least 70%.

People drive their cars in this city. That's just the way it is. And there isn't a whole lot anyone can do to change that in a significant way.

We don't need to turn every heritage building in the Exchange into a parking lot.

But a rotting, derelict building like the King should be demolished because it's a safety hazard.

And there's no reason in the world why it shouldn't be used to help increase parking capacity in the downtown.

Did anybody object when the Crocus building between Main Street and Old Market Square erected new parking space? No, because we needed the parking.

Let's get on with it.