Most expensive city to live in

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Interesting. Paris felt affordable to me, relative to New York.

Paris definitely felt more affordable to me, too. You can find cheap restaurants with excellent fare. Groceries were also an excellent value. Good wines were pretty cheap. You get a great kick for your bucks in Paris. I sympathize with Mousquet though, I realize that parisians have a tougher time of it.

[photoLith]

Originally Posted by Crawford

In a sit-down restaurant in, say, Columbus, Ohio, wouldn't one person almost always pay $30+ for a complete dinner with wine?

In Pittsburgh, Cleveland or Columbus or basically anywhere in the rust belt it costs more than you'd think to eat out if you want drinks as well. Even if your a suburban yinzer who thinks TGI Fridays is fine dining, that still costs more than 30 bucks.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by photoLith

In Pittsburgh, Cleveland or Columbus or basically anywhere in the rust belt it costs more than you'd think to eat out if you want drinks as well.

I was surprised at how expensive it was to eat & drink in Buffalo. Typical prices in USD seemed to be about the same as Toronto's in CAD (using the beer index: $6-8 for an average pint of a local brew), which given the exchange rate means it's actually more expensive (and Toronto is not a cheap place to go out). All the more surprising given that it's also a much lower rent / lower wage city.

Less competition maybe? More disposable income?

[Crawford]

Canada, to me, seems pretty cheap right now for Americans, given the exchange rate.

My brother is actually getting married in downtown Toronto next year (he's marrying a Canadian) and is crowing about the cost savings. The wedding venue is cheaper than equivalent places in the Detroit area.

[Steely Dan]

i feel sorry for those who don't live in cities with liberal BYO policies.

chicago is an extremely affordable town to eat out in if you take advantage of its numerous BYO establishments.

my wife and i most often do date nights at ethnic BYO's in our neighborhood.

two entrees for $13 apiece + $4 dollar corkage fee + tax & tip = date night for under 40 bucks!

[niwell]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

I was surprised at how expensive it was to eat & drink in Buffalo. Typical prices in USD seemed to be about the same as Toronto's in CAD (using the beer index: $6-8 for an average pint of a local brew), which given the exchange rate means it's actually more expensive (and Toronto is not a cheap place to go out). All the more surprising given that it's also a much lower rent / lower wage city.

Yeah this has always struck me too. There are some things that are cheaper, like "beer and a shot" deals at some bars, but that's more likely a factor of minimum price on alcohol laws here. When I was in Detroit last month I found I was paying about $7-9 USD on average for a 16oz craft beer (no real pints in America!).

Although I've always found Toronto to be pretty good for food and drink deals, though there's obviously some very high end stuff. Paid somewhat more the last times I was in Calgary and Halifax. Ottawa can also be a bit more expensive, though has less price variation.

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i feel sorry for those who don't live in cities with liberal BYO policies.

chicago is an extremely affordable town to eat out in if you take advantage of its numerous BYO establishments.

my wife and i most often do date nights at ethnic BYO's in our neighborhood.

two entrees for $13 apiece + $4 dollar corkage fee + tax & tip = date night for under 40 bucks!

Good deal. I went out with my wife to an unknown place last night, a nice Peruvian restaurant with great food, and spotless, pleasant ambiance. We usually do BYOBooze too, and this was a surprise, they actually had a wine card where they only charged 7$ corkage over the cost of store bought wine. In other words, the corkage fee is the markup on their wine, which is pretty good considering their liquor permit is pretty onerous.It ended up costing us 130$ca for a table d'hôte menu; entrée, main dish, dessert and coffee included.

BYOBs don't usually charge corkage fees in Montreal, you then have the option of adding a percentage over the 15% tips, if you so desire.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by niwell

Yeah this has always struck me too. There are some things that are cheaper, like "beer and a shot" deals at some bars, but that's more likely a factor of minimum price on alcohol laws here. When I was in Detroit last month I found I was paying about $7-9 USD on average for a 16oz craft beer (no real pints in America!).

Although I've always found Toronto to be pretty good for food and drink deals, though there's obviously some very high end stuff. Paid somewhat more the last times I was in Calgary and Halifax. Ottawa can also be a bit more expensive, though has less price variation.

Yeah, pricing for things seem fairly consistent across the country, which is also kind of surprising given the differences in cost of living.

Still, aside from the US, among all the other places I've been in the last few years, only Iceland and Switzerland have been more expensive to eat out in (and not really for alcohol!) than Toronto/Canada are. Even supposedly expensive markets like Japan are more affordable.

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i feel sorry for those who don't live in cities with liberal BYO policies.

chicago is an extremely affordable town to eat out in if you take advantage of its numerous BYO establishments.

my wife and i most often do date nights at ethnic BYO's in our neighborhood.

two entrees for $13 apiece + $4 dollar corkage fee + tax & tip = date night for under 40 bucks!

Chicago in general is quite affordable. Its arguably a great bang for the buck. Food, and especially with real estate. Purchasable or rental units. Compared to the money pit region that I'm in, Chicago IMO is a bargain. For folks that love the cold, I guess its a plus too!

I was looking at units in Chicago, and I just yell at my screen, because I know how much those same units would go for here.

[Crawford]

Disagree. Chicago is quite expensive eating out, and generally rather expensive for most consumer goods. 10.75% sales tax.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Chicago is quite expensive eating out

quite the contrary

if you know

where to go

for BYO




coincidentally, we're taking my dad out for his birthday tonight to one of our favorite lebanese BYOs.

4 adults and 2 kids, the total with tax & tip will probably clock in at around $110 for the whole group.

that's for 6 people, quality restaurant fed, for less than $20/head.

it's ALL about the BYO!

[Don't Be That Guy]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Still, aside from the US, among all the other places I've been in the last few years, only Iceland and Switzerland have been more expensive to eat out in (and not really for alcohol!) than Toronto/Canada are. Even supposedly expensive markets like Japan are more affordable.

Switzerland, Norway, and Iceland are noticeably more expensive than the US for eating and drinking. The UK (excluding London), Ireland, Netherlands, Denmark, etc. seemed comparable to costs in the US, while the rest of Europe, and the world really, seems quite affordable. Groceries, in particular, seem much less expensive in much of Europe for higher quality goods, especially in France and Spain.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy

Switzerland, Norway, and Iceland are noticeably more expensive than the US for eating and drinking. The UK (excluding London), Ireland, Netherlands, Denmark, etc. seemed comparable to costs in the US, while the rest of Europe, and the world really, seems quite affordable.

Agreed. London always give me a bit of sticker shock.

Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy

Groceries, in particular, seem much less expensive in much of Europe for higher quality goods, especially in France and Spain.

Groceries seem much, much cheaper in Europe than New York, and I think maybe cheaper than the U.S. in general (groceries in NYC are much more expensive than the rest of the country). I've grocery shopped in Berlin a few times and spent half of what I am accustomed to spending for similar items in NYC. The price difference isn't even that drastic between New York and grocery stores in other parts of the country.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Agreed. London always give me a bit of sticker shock.



Groceries seem much, much cheaper in Europe than New York, and I think maybe cheaper than the U.S. in general (groceries in NYC are much more expensive than the rest of the country). I've grocery shopped in Berlin a few times and spent half of what I am accustomed to spending for similar items in NYC. The price difference isn't even that drastic between New York and grocery stores in other parts of the country.

Right now London is much more affordable for an american than in the past. The pound is very weak with Brexit. Otherwise, I agree with others, most of western Europe seems to have lower restaurant and grocery prices than the US. And quality is generally much higher in Europe.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Right now London is much more affordable for an american than in the past. The pound is very weak with Brexit. Otherwise, I agree with others, most of western Europe seems to have lower restaurant and grocery prices than the US. And quality is generally much higher in Europe.

I haven't been back in a couple years, but the last time I was there the exchange rate was about where it is now. It was still shockingly expensive to use public transit, which is what always stands out to me the most about London. Uber often ended up being about the same price going around central London as two fares on the tube.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I haven't been back in a couple years, but the last time I was there the exchange rate was about where it is now. It was still shockingly expensive to use public transit, which is what always stands out to me the most about London. Uber often ended up being about the same price going around central London as two fares on the tube.

Good point on transit. It was less expensive for us to use cabs than public transit earlier this year. But I have a family of 5. Food wasn't as unreasonable as I remember from years ago.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

coincidentally, we're taking my dad out for his birthday tonight to one of our favorite lebanese BYOs.

4 adults and 2 kids, the total with tax & tip will probably clock in at around $110 for the whole group.

that's for 6 people, quality restaurant fed, for less than $20/head.

it's ALL about the BYO!

i over-estimated, the six of us got out of there for 88 bucks, all in!

we feasted like kings on hummus, babaghannouj, tabbouleh, falafels, dolmas, rice, grilled veggies, and beef, lamb, chicken, & kafta kebabs.

and so freaking tasty! family style platters are such a great way to economize.

as is BYO. we paid a total of $6 in corkage fees for our two bottles of wine.

[Chisouthside]

what was the spot Steely?

[Steely Dan]

^ Semiramis in Albany Park (right by the kedzie stop on the brown line).

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i over-estimated, the six of us got out of there for 88 bucks, all in!

we feasted like kings on hummus, babaghannouj, tabbouleh, falafels, dolmas, rice, grilled veggies, and beef, lamb, chicken, & kafta kebabs.

and so freaking tasty! family style platters are such a great way to economize.

as is BYO. we paid a total of $6 in corkage fees for our two bottles of wine.

I love Leb-o-nese food. Big here in Montreal, too. Healthy, and varied and fresh tasting. It's all good.

I had Jap-o-nese last night at a little Izakaya on Rachel street in the Plateau neighborhood. Two very good Ramen for my wife and I , plum wine for me and a ginger Sapporo for my sweetheart, that cost us 70$ w tax and tip. Expensive but the place was sweet and the food and service topnotch.

Our go to place on a near weekly basis is a Punjabi restaurant on the Main, it is also a BYO and there is no fee for opening a bottle. It usually runs near sixty bucks for two, a great meal including tips 15% and the taxes 15%.

When you find a good resto, it is like a home away from home.