WINNIPEG| The Exchange District |Market Lands Redevelopment

[EspionNoir]

It is so not true to say projects in the city are shitty (what a bad word).

Just the MB Hydro Place will deny this claim. CMHR? Plus you didn’t seem to say anything about 300 Main, and tried to take away the glory of TNS by saying “Winnipeg cannot support it”. Please don’t.

And I think this market design is good enough. Other designs are cool but they seem to belong to the busier part of downtown

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by Pinus

And this is the kind of attitude that most of us are sick of around here. The norm of all projects in the city are not "shitty", as you so eloquently put it.

For the record, this is not my prefered design either.

But in your case, we get it. You think everything in the city is rubbish. You come here to remind us of that alll the time. ALL THE TIME. But nobody here cares what you think anymore.So please, why don't you just stick to your beloved Edmonton threads where everything there is perfect in your eyes.

Please, we have our fair share of shit too. However, I must say that despite our woes, we have too many projects on the go to keep track of

[Luisito]

So was this the big announcement before Christmas?

The project looks nice to me. I am interested in seeing what the northern section will be like. I am still a bit confused about the affordable apartments. Will these apartments be controlled by Manitoba housing? It is not really a place I would want to live. Too close to Higgins and Main. That whole area between Logan, Higgins and princess and the Disreali bridge is a disaster and is getting worse every year. Not a place to go for a stroll at night or a place to walk the dog.

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by Luisito

So was this the big announcement before Christmas?

The project looks nice to me. I am interested in seeing what the northern section will be like. I am still a bit confused about the affordable apartments. Will these apartments be controlled by Manitoba housing? It is not really a place I would want to live. Too close to Higgins and Main. That whole area between Logan, Higgins and princess and the Disreali bridge is a disaster and is getting worse every year. Not a place to go for a stroll at night or a place to walk the dog.

No it's not going to be a Manitoba Housing complex, i would assume Centure Venture will be the property manager and they will maintain rents at 'affordable' market rates, similar to how the UofW's Downtown Commons complex is managed.

These are the 2018 Affordable Rates at the Commons:
1 BDRM: $924
2 BDRM: $1147
3 BDRM: $1213

[GlassCity]

Yeah it's pretty terrible. Of the five presented, I thought this one was the worst.

The market is fine, but the three apartment blocks look terrible on their own, and they break up any flow from Old Market Square. Copy-paste urban design that's hardly an upgrade over what's there now.

Zero sense of place created there, I think that's really what it comes down to.

[Kris22]

The better proposals had the market oriented along King. I don't like how the Daost design has the whole south side of the block open on three sides. It essentially kills the streetscape on three streets. Not to mention will just look like a giant windswept bus stop in the winter time. On top of that, the residential building has its side walls oriented to Princess and King. I can't believe a design would be selected that disregards these two streetscapes entirely.

I regret coming back to this thread to look at all 5 designs again fml. Sorry for the rant. I honestly wish they would just leave it as a parking lot and have a fund raiser for something better.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by Kris22

On top of that, the residential building has its side walls oriented to Princess and King. I can't believe a design would be selected that disregards these two streetscapes entirely.

Bingo

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Kris22

The better proposals had the market oriented along King. I don't like how the Daost design has the whole south side of the block open on three sides. It essentially kills the streetscape on three streets. Not to mention will just look like a giant windswept bus stop in the winter time. On top of that, the residential building has its side walls oriented to Princess and King. I can't believe a design would be selected that disregards these two streetscapes entirely.

I regret coming back to this thread to look at all 5 designs again fml. Sorry for the rant. I honestly wish they would just leave it as a parking lot and have a fund raiser for something better.

That's a great point I should've mentioned too. The whole thing just ignores the streets completely, while at the same time not making much of a public space at all in the middle of it either.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Pinus

And this is the kind of attitude that most of us are sick of around here. The norm of all projects in the city are not "shitty", as you so eloquently put it.

For the record, this is not my prefered design either.

But in your case, we get it. You think everything in the city is rubbish. You come here to remind us of that alll the time. ALL THE TIME. But nobody here cares what you think anymore.So please, why don't you just stick to your beloved Edmonton threads where everything there is perfect in your eyes.

If we looked at the amount of suburban big box & strip mall development compared to the amount of urban developments happening in downtown and surrounding areas... I would actually agree that most of the projects happening here are "shitty."

Originally Posted by EspionNoir

It is so not true to say projects in the city are shitty (what a bad word).

Just the MB Hydro Place will deny this claim. CMHR? Plus you didn’t seem to say anything about 300 Main, and tried to take away the glory of TNS by saying “Winnipeg cannot support it”. Please don’t.

And I think this market design is good enough. Other designs are cool but they seem to belong to the busier part of downtown

That's the problem right here. Why are we settling for and OK with "good enough" in what is one of the most prime pieces of real estate downtown, in what is becoming our crown jewel neighbourhood. That logic baffles me.

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

No it's not going to be a Manitoba Housing complex, i would assume Centure Venture will be the property manager and they will maintain rents at 'affordable' market rates, similar to how the UofW's Downtown Commons complex is managed.

These are the 2018 Affordable Rates at the Commons:
1 BDRM: $924
2 BDRM: $1147
3 BDRM: $1213

CentreVenture is not a property manager. They'll organize and sell off this land I'm sure, but they're not going to be getting into the affordable housing management business.

Originally Posted by GlassCity

That's a great point I should've mentioned too. The whole thing just ignores the streets completely, while at the same time not making much of a public space at all in the middle of it either.

This is the problem here. Aesthetics more or less irrelevant right now – this does absolutely nothing to improve, enhance, or frankly even maintain the surrounding neighbourhood.

All of our approved city planning documents talk about having a continuous street edge downtown, with streetfront CRUs, etc. So how did a design that completely ignores all of these "rules" win the competition? This design would also boldly fail the winter cities design guidelines that Edmonton has been helping to develop.

The site is already surrounded by 4 streets – why does it make any sense to ignore the existing streets and create several new ones?!

And, unlike almost any other site downtown, all 4 opposing blocks are actually fully developed and fairly active already, in spite of this empty block. RRC on Princess, William has several active CRUs, City Hall & Plaza on King, and the Chinese gardens on James. Orienting CRUs to King and Princess could be an absolute game changer for the NW Exchange and completely change the face of the area – for the much, much better.

[Urban recluse]

[roccerfeller]

I wonder what drove them to choosing this design? Does this one ultimately bring more density? Is it the height?

I actually didn’t mind this one, but out of the five this was the least attractive and least interesting.

Edit:
Here is what the jury thought about the entries, why they didn’t choose the other four and what made them choose this one

https://storage.googleapis.com/wzuku...21%20FINAL.pdf

I’m interested in what the urban savvy and professionals feel about the jury’s thoughts on choosing this design and rejecting the others

[buzzg]

In the end, the Jury found that the image of the sun-filled and welcoming market area on the east side of the site as in the perspective, would be in significant shadow many afternoons in late summer and fall due to the shadow of the 10-storey mixed-use building. In addition, the Jury was concerned about the shading and pedestrian impact of the 10-storey massing on Red River campus and along Princess Street as illustrated in the Princess and William elevation.

Do they understand how the sun works? It sounds like they want something that has complete openness to the sun at all hours of every day – how could you ever have this without just building one storey buildings. Also, sorry, but they're worried about pedestrian impact of a mixed use building along Princess... like... a positive impact? Currently there's no sidewalk there, and the RRC side has little reason to walk. So putting nothing there will make a good pedestrian experience?

What planet was this panel brought in from?

[Urban recluse]

Morons.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by buzzg

If we looked at the amount of suburban big box & strip mall development compared to the amount of urban developments happening in downtown and surrounding areas... I would actually agree that most of the projects happening here are "shitty."



That's the problem right here. Why are we settling for and OK with "good enough" in what is one of the most prime pieces of real estate downtown, in what is becoming our crown jewel neighbourhood. That logic baffles me.



CentreVenture is not a property manager. They'll organize and sell off this land I'm sure, but they're not going to be getting into the affordable housing management business.



This is the problem here. Aesthetics more or less irrelevant right now – this does absolutely nothing to improve, enhance, or frankly even maintain the surrounding neighbourhood.

All of our approved city planning documents talk about having a continuous street edge downtown, with streetfront CRUs, etc. So how did a design that completely ignores all of these "rules" win the competition? This design would also boldly fail the winter cities design guidelines that Edmonton has been helping to develop.

The site is already surrounded by 4 streets – why does it make any sense to ignore the existing streets and create several new ones?!

And, unlike almost any other site downtown, all 4 opposing blocks are actually fully developed and fairly active already, in spite of this empty block. RRC on Princess, William has several active CRUs, City Hall & Plaza on King, and the Chinese gardens on James. Orienting CRUs to King and Princess could be an absolute game changer for the NW Exchange and completely change the face of the area – for the much, much better.

Because no City of Winnipeg planners or representatives were on the selection committee. But that gets to the whole absurdity of how a body that has nothing to do with the City planning department does so much planning in downtown Winnipeg.

[EspionNoir]

2 days ago I decided not to revisit this thread due to obvious reasons such as some comments above, and I shouldn've just insisted.

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Because no City of Winnipeg planners or representatives were on the selection committee. But that gets to the whole absurdity of how a body that has nothing to do with the City planning department does so much planning in downtown Winnipeg.

Perhaps people need to protest the decision. When plans were made for a 24-storey building at the pumphouse location, there was an outcry from so many because it didn't fit in with the neighborhood, etc. Maybe the powers that be will also kill this project as well if there is a loud vocal opposition to it.

[EspionNoir]

This kind of disappointment towards this project is so wrong.

Anyways, Merry Xmas everyone

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by EspionNoir

This kind of disappointment towards this project is so wrong.

Anyways, Merry Xmas everyone

I agree. I really don't think this selection warrants the outrage it seems to have generated. I'm okay with people having different opinions, but c'mon people...it's a market space and an apartment block. I think it's success will eventually be gauged by how busy the market area is, and what sort of developments go north of it.

I also add....Merry Xmas, and let's just calm the "F" down, okay?

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by pspeid

I agree. I really don't think this selection warrants the outrage it seems to have generated. I'm okay with people having different opinions, but c'mon people...it's a market space and an apartment block. I think it's success will eventually be gauged by how busy the market area is, and what sort of developments go north of it.

I also add....Merry Xmas, and let's just calm the "F" down, okay?

I wholeheartedly disagree... continues to peddle the "mediocre is better than nothing" mentality. And the E-W design of the space, with no attention paid to King & Princess, will only make connecting the Exchange to Chinatown – and revitalizing Chinatown – even more difficult, as it will further disconnect the two.

Because of its location, this project from a macro level should be looking at how to better connect the Exchange proper, Chinatown and Centennial/RRC campus growing northeast. This does the opposite.

[Urban recluse]

Yep.