BIRMINGHAM, AL | Urban Renaissance & Construction

[jslaughter]

Originally Posted by Rail>Auto

If the Dome is built would that doom Legion Field? I sure hope not. It's a shame you can't put the GA Dome on wheels are bring it on down from Atlanta. What a waste in demolishing that.

Yes and no. UAB still hosts their football games at legio field but that is going to change in the next ten years. Legion field has it's history but it is now a shadow of what it used to be. It's not the structurally soundest building in town and it is aging rapidly. Secondly legion field is in the ghetto. It's very dangerous at night. Other than the UAB football games, the alabama state/ alabama a&m game, and the bowl game, it is never used. Uab has been talking about either doing away with the football team or building a new stadium. If the dome is built I would imagine the bowl game and the al state/al a&m game would be moved to the dome and legion field will be demolished.

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by Rail>Auto

If the Dome is built would that doom Legion Field? I sure hope not. It's a shame you can't put the GA Dome on wheels are bring it on down from Atlanta. What a waste in demolishing that.

More then likely yes, this facility will be the host of the Classic and the Compass Bowl, or whatever the next sponsor is. And, we want our own facility built to our specs and criteria. We do not want some hand me down from Atlanta, figuratively or otherwise.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by jslaughter

http://www.bizjournals.com/birmingha...w-details.html


Uptown is pretty dull. If the dome is built and that's a BIG IF it would certainly put birmingham on the map. The only worry i have is that it will be a money pit.

Oh it'll be built. A city the size of Birmingham shouldn't be relegated to having to use the facilities that it does right now. And it's not like this thing is going to be Jerry's World over in Arlington, it's going to be a facility that suits Birmingham's needs.

Although, I do think it would be wise for the city to have this thing designed to where it could be expanded in the future, if that's even possible.

[Bamablazer]

Originally Posted by tascalisa

Oh it'll be built. A city the size of Birmingham shouldn't be relegated to having to use the facilities that it does right now. And it's not like this think is going to be Jerry's World over in Arlington, it's going to be a facility that suits Birmingham's needs.

Although, I do think it would be wise for the city to have this thing designed to where it could be expanded in the future, if that's even possible.

ABSOLUTELY it has to be expandable in order to stay competitive. Also it may help us attract a thousand room hotel or two.

[TimCity2000]

slightly more detailed look at the new VA clinic and parking deck... sorry I couldn't find a bigger image!

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Birmingham's Jemison Flats sold for $6.3 million



Michael Tomberlin
AL.com
June 26, 2014
LINK

BIRMINGHAM, Alabama – Jemison Flats, one of the pioneering downtown loft apartment and office projects that helped spur downtown redevelopment westward, has been sold for more than $6.3 million.

LIV Development is developing the $30 million LIV Parkside apartment and retail project across from Birmingham Railroad Park.

In September, LIV Development sold the Blach's Lofts for $3.2 million in a deal also brokered by Rock Apartment Advisors. That building, at 300 20th St. North, has 24 loft apartments and 5,000 square feet of commercial space in what was once Blach's Department Store.

"We plan to fully renovate the community, both common areas and interior units, while maintaining the historical integrity of the community," he said. "The renovation plan will further cement Jemison as the market leading historical loft community and complement the downtown/Parkside gentrification."

With occupancies consistently between 97 percent and 98 percent, Rock said the downtown apartment rental market is the best submarket in the Birmingham metro area and one of the best in the Southeast.

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by Bamablazer

ABSOLUTELY it has to be expandable in order to stay competitive. Also it may help us attract a thousand room hotel or two.

I have heard the goal is 45-55K seats expandable to 65k.

I think it is quaint that Sheraton Birmingham is still the largest hotel in the state after all these years. A new facility should attract development, and a big hotel would be great. Getting a homerun of hosting the DNC or World Game would make that happen a lot faster.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by Tourian

I have heard the goal is 45-55K seats expandable to 65k.

I think it is quaint that Sheraton Birmingham is still the largest hotel in the state after all these years. A new facility should attract development, and a big hotel would be great. Getting a homerun of hosting the DNC or World Game would make that happen a lot faster.

Yea, but I'm wondering if they're still planning that. I'm worried that after the city met with ESPN about what would be appropriate for such a facility that the idea of possibly expanding it larger than 55K has been scrapped. I dunno, it just seems like it would be a total waste to spend nearly half a billion dollars for a facility that the city could outgrow in the same amount of time it to the GA Dome to become "obsolete" for Atlanta.

I understand that in the near term a 55K facility is much more appropriate, but after 20 years do we really want a facility that we have no other choice but to either settle or demolish?

[Wayward Memphian]

Originally Posted by tascalisa

Yea, but I'm wondering if they're still planning that. I'm worried that after the city met with ESPN about what would be appropriate for such a facility that the idea of possibly expanding it larger than 55K has been scrapped. I dunno, it just seems like it would be a total waste to spend nearly half a billion dollars for a facility that the city could outgrow in the same amount of time it to the GA Dome to become "obsolete" for Atlanta.

I understand that in the near term a 55K facility is much more appropriate, but after 20 years do we really want a facility that we have no other choice but to either settle or demolish?

How in the world would Birmingham outgrow 55,000? I'm bringing a outsiders pair of eyes to that. The trend outside of the SEC and the major conferences is smaller venues soaked in revenue producing luxury. See TCU and Baylor's new digs in a major conference. Memphis is in the same boat about really needing a new stadium but the feasibility of it doesn't really add up. Both have bowl games that I think could benefit from smaller stadiums with roofs to counteract the weather element and stadiums that most likely will never fill up. The Liberty Bowl can on occasion with a neighboring SEC team playing in it. It could boost those bowl games in stature in getting them out of the elements and adding the premium seating that sponsors love. Memphis with Beale St. could really pull off a baby Sugar Bowl type setting. I doubt either city could land the final 4 but elite eights are certainly a possibility.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by Wayward Memphian

How in the world would Birmingham outgrow 55,000? I'm bringing a outsiders pair of eyes to that. The trend outside of the SEC and the major conferences is smaller venues soaked in revenue producing luxury. See TCU and Baylor's new digs in a major conference. Memphis is in the same boat about really needing a new stadium but the feasibility of it doesn't really add up. Both have bowl games that I think could benefit from smaller stadiums with roofs to counteract the weather element and stadiums that most likely will never fill up. The Liberty Bowl can on occasion with a neighboring SEC team playing in it. It could boost those bowl games in stature in getting them out of the elements and adding the premium seating that sponsors love. Memphis with Beale St. could really pull off a baby Sugar Bowl type setting. I doubt either city could land the final 4 but elite eights are certainly a possibility.

How could Birmingham outgrow a 55K facility? I think the fact that Legion Field's current capacity is 71,594 is enough of an example.

First of all, after 20 years how can anyone know what Birmingham or Memphis will be like? That's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about building a stadium the size of Bryant-Denny (101,821) in a metro of about 240,000 (Tuscaloosa). What most of us are wondering is if it is short sighted to build a 55K facility that cannot be expanded after initial construction. What us Central AL posters want is a facility that could be expanded by 10K seats if the demand ever existed in the future. It would be irresponsible to build a stadium capable of supporting only 55K (and nothing more) when Birmingham already hosts events that draw over 60K to a single stadium.

This isn't a ridiculous concern.

EDIT: Also, Memphis already has a nice new facility (FedEx Forum) with a pro sports team. For a city its size, it has no reason to build a new facility. Birmingham on the other hand...

[Wayward Memphian]

Originally Posted by tascalisa

How could Birmingham outgrow a 55K facility? I think the fact that Legion Field's current capacity is 71,594 is enough of an example.

First of all, after 20 years how can anyone know what Birmingham or Memphis will be like? That's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about building a stadium the size of Bryant-Denny (101,821) in a metro of about 240,000 (Tuscaloosa). What most of us are wondering is if it is short sighted to build a 55K facility that cannot be expanded after initial construction. What us Central AL posters want is a facility that could be expanded by 10K seats if the demand ever existed in the future. It would be irresponsible to build a stadium capable of supporting only 55K (and nothing more) when Birmingham already hosts events that draw over 60K to a single stadium.

This isn't a ridiculous concern.

EDIT: Also, Memphis already has a nice new facility (FedEx Forum) with a pro sports team. For a city its size, it has no reason to build a new facility. Birmingham on the other hand...

You don't build a stadium's max capacity for one game. I assume this is a classic game with historically black colleges involved. You build it for it's main tennant and that would be UAB if it keeps it's program. You don't destroy potential ticket revenues by over supplying seat avaliabilty. It's good to have demand.

Memphis has a major college basketball program in addition to it's NBA team. Besides basketball isn't football. It's apples and oranges really.

[Tourian]

I agree with both of you. ESPN wants the stadium full and the seats at a premium with luxury boxes and accoutrements for big spenders and corporations which Legion Field did not have. If we get an SEC kickoff game, it needs to sell out every time and it is more important to sell luxury boxes then cram every nook and cranny with people.

I think 55k is too small, but UAB fans would look like lost trying to fill that, and the Classic will just become a little smaller but still be a hit.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by Wayward Memphian

You don't build a stadium's max capacity for one game. I assume this is a classic game with historically black colleges involved. You build it for it's main tennant and that would be UAB if it keeps it's program. You don't destroy potential ticket revenues by over supplying seat avaliabilty. It's good to have demand.

Memphis has a major college basketball program in addition to it's NBA team. Besides basketball isn't football. It's apples and oranges really.

No, you don't. But, you've already ignored the fact that the city already has a much larger facility that would be hosting events larger than 55K with reasonable frequency if not for the fact that it's a total dump (I love Legion Field's history, but let's be real, it's a dump). And where is your uncertainty about the future of UAB's football program? Do you know something we don't?


Also, you're telling me that the college football capital of the entire country couldn't possibly muster the support for frequent large football games within its bounds? Below is a map of media markets and searches for "college football":


Source: NY Times

Below is a list of cities by the number of college football fans, from the same source as the above image:



Now, for a list of college football teams based on size of fanbases, same source:



Alabama and Auburn fanbases combined, you have 3.78 million fans. Don't you think a stadium with a capacity of 65K would sell out if the City of Birmingham was able to convince the Tide and Tigers to come back to the city that gave their rivalry its name?

Now, a list of CUSA and Sun Belt teams based on size of fanbases, same source:





UAB and Troy have a rivalry. Combining their fanbases, you get 617,000 fans. It's reasonable to assume that that game would come close to filling up the stadium, if not completely selling out. Also, UAB has even been able to attract Miss State to Birmingham for regular season games. So having an nicer facility in a nicer part of town would stand to attract even more attendees from Mississippi and Alabama for those kinds of games. Who knows, the increased appeal of playing UAB in a nicer, newer facility might allow the team to attract more opponents like Miss State and even recruit better talent.


So, really your argument of not having a tenant is unfounded.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Just a comment in general...

It's getting really old... people from outside of the state, and even the inside of the state, telling us, "You can't do this, it won't work." Well, maybe if they would spend some time around here instead of pinching their noses from afar they would think differently, but it's really not our problem to convince them otherwise. Really, I don't know why I try arguing anymore, because I'm realizing it's pointless to fight stupidity with actual facts....

[Wayward Memphian]

You are not getting Bama and Auburn to play in Birmingham again, there is no point in that. What is past is past. Besides those two and a Classic that's as much about the bands as it is the football, what else is going to draw. The notion that B-Ham will host some annual kickoffs game with big time programs is a bit far fetched. This isn't Dallas or Atlanta.

Besides this is a hypothetical dome, the size it's built is the size it's going to stay. The expansion costs would be astronomical if even feasible and that would likely make the costs higher on the front end for no sure thing (expansion) .

I'm an outsider and I'm not degrading anything and there would be nothing wrong with a very very nice stadium in Birmingham but it not a bigger is better world anymore when it comes to stadium size outside of your mega cities.

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by Wayward Memphian

You are not getting Bama and Auburn to play in Birmingham again, there is no point in that. What is past is past.

That's not set in stone, and it isn't something you can say with finality.

Besides those two and a Classic that's as much about the bands as it is the football, what else is going to draw.

Ah, ok so you are looking down your nose at a game between two black schools because they greatly appreciate their bands. Yet money is money, and the game draws more then 55k.

The notion that B-Ham will host some annual kickoffs game with big time programs is a bit far fetched. This isn't Dallas or Atlanta.

Would the fact that Mike Slive, the president of the SEC which is based in Birmingham suggested as such make you reevauluate this statement? Who should we believe? His notion or yours?

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2...c_kickoff.html

Hallman then mentioned an idea shared with him by SEC Commissioner Mike Slive that should get the attention of football fans in this state and beyond.

"Slive at one point told me he'd love to have an SEC regular-season kickoff game, rotating East and West opponents, and have it in a place like Birmingham to kick off the college football season," Hallman said.

[Wayward Memphian]

Originally Posted by Tourian

That's not set in stone, and it isn't something you can say with finality.



Ah, ok so you are looking down your nose at a game between two black schools because they greatly appreciate their bands. Yet money is money, and the game draws more then 55k.



Would the fact that Mike Slive, the president of the SEC which is based in Birmingham suggested as such make you reevauluate this statement? Who should we believe? His notion or yours?

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2...c_kickoff.html

I love SWAC football and the bands make it so.

So Slive suggests that a kick off game between two SEC teams on a rotational basis between rotating teams, one from each division. No where did it read like it would be every year in Birmingham. Plus I don't see an SEC team giving up a possible home conference game for a set up like that. The SEC would have to go to 9 conference games a year to pull that off and it doesn't seem likely any time soon. The fans at other schools will complain about the cost of travel for a non bowl game along with a likely inflated ticket price.

Half the conference is pissed the baseball tourney seems forever bound to Hoover when cities like Memphis and AutoZone have tried to get it. There are tons of nice minor league stadiums in the SEC footprint that's a ton better than Hoover that would love to bid on it. In fact, Birmingham has a nice new one.

As a fan that might travel to a baseball tourney (and the team I follow is in the top five in attendance year after year) which would I choose:

A. Nice new ballpark in Biloxi or Hoover
B. One of the best minor league fields in America and a World Famous entertainment district next door in Memphis or Hoover.
C. Any number of Spring Training Complexes in Florida with scores of family fun or Hoover.

I didn't even rattle off a few big league stadiums that's within the SEC footprint.

And.... your forgetting I'm in favor of Birmingham getting a stadium, just not one over 55 or 60 thousand.

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by Wayward Memphian

I love SWAC football and the bands make it so.

So Slive suggests that a kick off game between two SEC teams on a rotational basis between rotating teams, one from each division. No where did it read like it would be every year in Birmingham. Plus I don't see an SEC team giving up a possible home conference game for a set up like that. The SEC would have to go to 9 conference games a year to pull that off and it doesn't seem likely any time soon. The fans at other schools will complain about the cost of travel for a non bowl game along with a likely inflated ticket price.

I understand you have your doubts, and quite frankly I don't really care. All I was doing was showing where my "notion" came from. There is very little chance of a game like that being held in Birmingham right now, without a new facility.

Half the conference is pissed the baseball tourney seems forever bound to Hoover when cities like Memphis and AutoZone have tried to get it. There are tons of nice minor league stadiums in the SEC footprint that's a ton better than Hoover that would love to bid on it. In fact, Birmingham has a nice new one.

As a fan that might travel to a baseball tourney (and the team I follow is in the top five in attendance year after year) which would I choose:

A. Nice new ballpark in Biloxi or Hoover
B. One of the best minor league fields in America and a World Famous entertainment district next door in Memphis or Hoover.
C. Any number of Spring Training Complexes in Florida with scores of family fun or Hoover.

I didn't even rattle off a few big league stadiums that's within the SEC footprint.

Ok. I don't see what that has to do with what we're talking about here. I'd love to see the SEC tourney moved downtown, but it just isn't on the radar right now. There is even a deal on the table for UA games to be played there while their facility in Tuscaloosa is renovated. It would seem Hoover has some pull with the SEC when it comes to baseball.

And.... your forgetting I'm in favor of Birmingham getting a stadium, just not one over 55 or 60 thousand.

Well, we are in favor of getting something that compromises nothing. Having the available option of hosting an Iron Bowl or even just one every three years, as well as not turning away a single Classic fan as well as hosting a largely attended Compass Bowl (it was in the top ten for attendance last year amongst Bowls) is what WE want. We should not have to compromise because someone from another city feels that we aren't worthy to have it when the facts and attendance numbers prove otherwise.

[Wayward Memphian]

Originally Posted by Tourian

I understand you have your doubts, and quite frankly I don't really care. All I was doing was showing where my "notion" came from. There is very little chance of a game like that being held in Birmingham right now, without a new facility.



Ok. I don't see what that has to do with what we're talking about here. I'd love to see the SEC tourney moved downtown, but it just isn't on the radar right now. There is even a deal on the table for UA games to be played there while their facility in Tuscaloosa is renovated. It would seem Hoover has some pull with the SEC when it comes to baseball.



Well, we are in favor of getting something that compromises nothing. Having the available option of hosting an Iron Bowl or even just one every three years, as well as not turning away a single Classic fan as well as hosting a largely attended Compass Bowl (it was in the top ten for attendance last year amongst Bowls) is what WE want. We should not have to compromise because someone from another city feels that we aren't worthy to have it when the facts and attendance numbers prove otherwise.

I simply can't get over the pie in the sky notion the Iron Bowl will return to a new stadium in Birmingham. It's simply not logical but Auburn being in the West and Missouri in the east isn't either

[arkitekte]

Originally Posted by Tourian

Well, we are in favor of getting something that compromises nothing. Having the available option of hosting an Iron Bowl or even just one every three years, as well as not turning away a single Classic fan as well as hosting a largely attended Compass Bowl (it was in the top ten for attendance last year amongst Bowls) is what WE want. We should not have to compromise because someone from another city feels that we aren't worthy to have it when the facts and attendance numbers prove otherwise.

Facts and attendance show that people go to the Compass Bowl, Magic City Classic, and not UAB football games. I'd like to see the facts that say that a 55K "expandable" domed stadium (which structurally would be a nightmare) is needed. Is revenue from just the Compass Bowl and a Classic game going to pay for a new stadium? I seriously doubt it. I also doubt that Bama or Auburn want to sacrifice a home game to play in Birmingham, especially when one would be sacrificing roughly 50K seats and the other 30K.