unhappy Winnipegger

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

As has already been explained, that isnt a government project, though I know you don't agree...it just isn't.

Hydro is 100% government .. even if you don't agree. Just as CBC is government. Just because they are a crown corp doesn't mean they are seperate ... they answer to the provincial minister in charge. As a former employee I can assure you that the provincial buracrats were never far away.

Originally Posted by jmt18325

You don't like the NDP, fine, but it's impossible to deny the progress that this province has made under them.

I will at least admit that they are shooting themselves in the foot far less then they used to. I think Doer has come to acknowledge the necessity of building the economy in order to keep the population happy, which means building the business base of the province.

With that said .. I would be more than critical if a PC government was wasting money on trophy buildings. In fact I have been openly critical of Grant Devine (former Saskatchewan PC leader) who back in the 80's built one office building after another in a sad attempt to project a pro-business preception in Saskatchewan. The problem was that most of the floors of those buildings were not occupied by private enterprise at all, but governmet offices, departments and crown corps. It even got so bad he actually went to Toronto and financed the purchase of a small insurance company and then financed the construction of a new office building for them. All leading to him stating proudly that "Saskatchwan was open for business." On the plus side , this did result in Regina's greatly improved skyline, but did nothing for the provincial economy (except lead to a downgrade in provincal debt grade), unless you were Harvard Developments, who worked closely for Devine to build those glass buildings.

Build the economy first... and buildings will follow.

[1ajs]

something that people are forgeting about is the city of winnipeg forced this new building on hydro not the province as a clause in the sale of winnipeg hydo

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

something that people are forgeting about is the city of winnipeg forced this new building on hydro not the province as a clause in the sale of winnipeg hydo

I don't recall the city demanding a building which costs a mint which is also past due by months and months.

All that was required was that the Hydro main office be moved downtown.. does that mean we have to overlook a poorly managed project?

I would have been just as happy if they filled out the Hudson Bay building with a new expansion where the parkade now stands for 60 million.

I guess we can all stand around and proudly stare at the beautiful government trophy building.

[1ajs]

theres a power point floating around from the city that states a new office hq of X size is to be built downtown
witch i saved a copy of ages ago but its not on this comp it happens to be on the comp that half broken stupid video card gah...

[vid]

Is Manitoba Hydro receiving tax dollars to support its day to day operations?

[1ajs]

nope its the other way around

[vid]

And he wants to sell it? Typical capitalist.

"This is making money for us during an economic downturn!" "Let's dump it on someone else and have NO assets!"

[1ajs]

no its allways been this way

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by newflyer

Hydro is 100% government .. even if you don't agree. Just as CBC is government.

It is just like the CBC....but either entity could be sold tomorrow, because they're completely separate. The government of course has some input, as any shareholder would, but a Hydro project isn't a government project. The money is separate and the organizational structure is separate.

[SmileyBoy]

I know I joined this thread late, but I would just like to make the point that Fargo-Moorhead, with a population of 200,000, has two large 6-lane freeways going through the city, and most people in F-M choose not to use them at all when driving around the city, and they instead choose to use the arterial roads like 45th Street, 13th Avenue, Main Ave., etc. And these freeways almost cut the city into quarters! The centre of F-M is almost located where I-29 intersects I-94. Likewise, I think most people in Winnipeg don't even use the Perimiter anyway because of its lack of relationship to urban development (much moreso than F-M), and that road is a negligible factor in assessing traffic issues in Winnipeg. I think that what is more important for Winnipeg is improving the traffic flow in the city's arterial streets like Kenaston, Pembina, Portage, Henderson, etc.

[grumpy old man]

The perimeter highway was never intended as a commuter freeway. It was always intended to be a means of Trans Canada Highway traffic avoiding driving through the city.

SmileyBoy is right. Let's find a way of improving flow on the major arterial roads. Getting rid of half the friggen traffic lights would be a great start. And finding a way of managing the very few bottlenecks would help.

Frankly, it is very easy to get around Winnipeg, even in rush hour.

[Pootkao]

Hey, how about this?

Move downtown. Sell the car. Buy a bike. Take the bus.

Complaining about traffic in Winnipeg is joke unto itself. Complaining about traffic on a board that is here to encourage urbanism... well, you've got a lot to learn.

[vid]

"But people downtown get murdered all the time!!!!" -Suburbanite

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by Pootkao

Hey, how about this?

Move downtown. Sell the car. Buy a bike. Take the bus.

Complaining about traffic in Winnipeg is joke unto itself. Complaining about traffic on a board that is here to encourage urbanism... well, you've got a lot to learn.

All fine and dandy, but most people don't work downtown .. you want people to commute to work from downtown just to support some urbanist fantasy?

I say live near to your place of work, if suitable housing exists. Of course Hydro is completely pushing against this theory.

As far as roadways.. Winnipeg requires some serious upgrades to it major routes including many much needed interchanges. There is little benefit to having traffic idle on Route 90 because it takes 3 lights to make a left.

[UrbanPlannerr]

Just because a city like Calgary or Edmonton has freeways running through them doesn't make them more appealing to me in any way... believe it or not I actually find Winnipeg to be at par to these cities despite the lack in downtown growth ect.. ect.. It was really just when I see overpasses on roads in other cities it makes them seem affordable (possibly more affordable than they really are), thus making me think we are just not putting our money where it could really show off, or something along that line.

And really to be honest, I'm not going to bother going back to look at what I have previously said but it was not the commute that is really the problem, as I rarely ever commute for more than half an hour, unless taking a bus (sitting at a bus stop for example). It was really more of the above paragraph.

I also think the way that routes like the perimeter and lagimodiere where designed are somewhat not as good as they could be (where traffic lights are placed, roads intersect, ect, ect..)

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by vid

And he wants to sell it? Typical capitalist.

"This is making money for us during an economic downturn!" "Let's dump it on someone else and have NO assets!"

I am not saying that we should sell the local utility ... just that it should be managed responsibly. All the big money going into this building could have been used by the government for other worthwhile projects. The cost of this project will eat into Hydro profits for years to come and will reduce its "dividend payments" to the government.

"This is costing us a fortune in an economic downtown!' "Let's eat up future revenue and then make up for it by jacking up taxes!"

I would like to see partnerships with private enterprise to pay for excessive northern generation. This would allow for a new business cluster (energy development) to develop within our city. Wow .... what a horrible idea. We might even see a few new buildings go up downtown without government assistance. CRAZY!!

[vid]

Originally Posted by newflyer

All the big money going into this building could have been used by the government for other worthwhile projects.

I don't know how it is in Manitoba, but in Ontario, when a municipal or provincially owned corporation invests in a capital project, that is its own money. That money can not be taken by the government and spent on something else, and in the case of Thunder Bay and TBayTel, it is separate from the revenue payments the city receives from the utility's profits. TBayTel has spent tens of millions in new infrastructure over the past decade (and so has Thunder Bay Hydro) and none of it has come from taxpayers, and none of it was ever destined for public coffers.

Originally Posted by newflyer

The cost of this project will eat into Hydro profits for years to come and will reduce its "dividend payments" to the government.

"This is costing us a fortune in an economic downtown!' "Let's eat up future revenue and then make up for it by jacking up taxes!"

Revenue going down doesn't equate to cost. At least in Thunder Bay, the municipally owned company's revenues to the city are not part of the regular budget, they're an addition to it. A bonus after the fact. The city never, under any circumstance, relies on their profits to support it's general operations. It is purely for capital investments by the municipality. Their decreased revenue has nothing to do with our property taxes. If they lose money, it is reflected in a change in their rates, and if you don't like it, there is competition to the utilities that one can use instead.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by vid

Revenue going down doesn't equate to cost. At least in Thunder Bay, the municipally owned company's revenues to the city are not part of the regular budget, they're an addition to it. A bonus after the fact.

That is very much correct, from what I know.


I thought a huge number of people did work downtown?

[grumpy old man]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

That is very much correct, from what I know.


I thought a huge number of people did work downtown?

Downtown Winnipeg Biz published a document that showed 70,000 people work downtown and 13,000 live downtown. Here is an excerpt:

• Over 16,000 students come downtown to learn, daily
• Nearly 70,000 people work downtown, daily
• Over 13,000 residents live downtown
• Over 130,000 people live within a 5 minute drive of downtown
• Almost 600 residential units are being constructed and/or sold
• Over 2.7 million tourism visitors to Winnipeg each year, the majority of
overnight visitors staying at 19 downtown hotels
• An estimated 54,000 delegates attended nearly 200 meetings/conventions
in Winnipeg in 2006
• 4 million annual visits to The Forks
• About 1.3 million annual visits to the Millennium Library
• Over 1.4 million visits to the MTS Centre, annually
• 334,300 visits to the CanWest Global Park, annually
• 22-storey, 600,000 square foot Manitoba Hydro office tower headquarters
underway with 1,800 employees and world-class energy efficiency opening
in 2008
• Almost $1 billion in investment in downtown since 1999
• Over 3,000 new downtown office workers since 1999, not including Hydro
• Over 10 million visitors to downtown retailers, annually
• Over 550,000 people attending downtown events, annually
• Almost 5 million visits to downtown arts, entertainment and attractions

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by UrbanPlannerr

Just because a city like Calgary or Edmonton has freeways running through them doesn't make them more appealing to me in any way... believe it or not I actually find Winnipeg to be at par to these cities despite the lack in downtown growth ect.. ect..

Winnipeg has a similar road structure to Calgary. However Winnipeg just has at-grade intersections instead of interchanges. The similarities between Lag and Deerfoot Trail are quite numerous.

Those that claim that Winnipeg is somehow better than Calgary because of a "lack of freeways" (or vice versa) needs to give both cities are closer look.