PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown III

[daviderik]

“The architectural design doesn’t match the Strip District,” Mayor Peduto said, adding that it reminds him of Brutalist architecture from the 1950s and 1960s. “It’s just four sides, no features. ..." -trib

Maybe just ad some architectural details as seen here by luisvidal:

[BrianTH]

Pretty sure he is thinking of a different Mid-Century style, the International Style, like 11 Stanwix, the former Westinghouse Tower, and not Brutalism, like Pitt's Posvar Hall. Four flat sides and minimal ornamentation is characteristic of the International Style. Brutalism features poured concrete and often complex, geometric shapes.

11 Stanwix (International Style):



Posvar Hall (Brutalist):



Proposed building:



Anyway, International Style is not everyone's cup of tea, but I have grown to like it in moderation, meaning mixed in with other architectural styles I think its sort of stark minimalism has a neat impact.

[East Edge]

Exactly! He doesnt even know his architectural styles. Shut the F up Bill if you dont know what your talking about! Actually the more I look at this building its growing on me. I like the simplicity of it.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Pretty sure he is thinking of a different Mid-Century style, the International Style, like 11 Stanwix, the former Westinghouse Tower, and not Brutalism, like Pitt's Posvar Hall. Four flat sides and minimal ornamentation is characteristic of the International Style. Brutalism features poured concrete and often complex, geometric shapes.

11 Stanwix (International Style):



Posvar Hall (Brutalist):



Proposed building:



Anyway, International Style is not everyone's cup of tea, but I have grown to like it in moderation, meaning mixed in with other architectural styles I think its sort of stark minimalism has a neat impact.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by East Edge

Actually the more I look at this building its growing on me. I like the simplicity of it.

Just to keep rambling on--over time I have come to really appreciate the US Steel Tower as a very Pittsburgh sort of building. Being triangular it is more Modernist than International Style, but it has that same minimalist vibe. And I think combined with the material choice it just has this strong, epic, almost topographic presence that speaks to Pittsburgh's industrial powerhouse period.

That's asking more than this new building can deliver. But a chunk of that sort of thing at the base of the 16th Street Bridge, on the Downtown side, to me DOES have a sort of signature Pittsburgh aspect to it.

And is it just me, or does the exterior material choice almost look like a nod to the intentionally-rusted steel of the US Steel Tower?



A building, I might note, that not only in renderings, but in practice would be in the immediate background as you are crossing the 16th Street Bridge:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4514...7i16384!8i8192

Anyway, this is just more explanation of how whether or not you see it as contextual really depends on the way you define the context, and I do tend to lean toward including Downtown in the context.

[Jonboy1983]

Hmm... You know, this building is starting to grow on me now.

[MarkMyWords]

Originally Posted by daviderik

“The architectural design doesn’t match the Strip District,” Mayor Peduto said, adding that it reminds him of Brutalist architecture from the 1950s and 1960s. “It’s just four sides, no features. ..." -trib

Maybe just ad some architectural details as seen here by luisvidal:

Pittsburgh should be so lucky as to get some architecture like this! Yes, an argument can be made that these exterior ornaments are a bit hokey or glitzy. But within a dense urban context, it does make the cityscape more interesting. When one views some of the skyscrapers and other high-rises being built in China and elsewhere, the banality of architecture here is so meh!. I'm not sure that kvetching about here, though, will change anything. Like inspiring some developer to break out of the pack and take a chance.

[Wally G]

Originally Posted by MarkMyWords

Pittsburgh should be so lucky as to get some architecture like this! Yes, an argument can be made that these exterior ornaments are a bit hokey or glitzy. But within a dense urban context, it does make the cityscape more interesting. When one views some of the skyscrapers and other high-rises being built in China and elsewhere, the banality of architecture here is so meh!. I'm not sure that kvetching about here, though, will change anything. Like inspiring some developer to break out of the pack and take a chance.

I agree with you, the design could use something more modern added to it.

[eschaton]

3/19 ZBA up. Items of interest:

1. Another brand new big building in the Strip District! The address given is 2917 Spruce Way. Basically here, viewed from Railroad Street. The developable parcel includes the three smaller buildings on the block, but not the taller warehouse building that fronts on 30th. The plan is for a seven-story, 90-foot, 140,000 square foot building with 10,000 feet of ground-floor retail, 56 residential units, and 58 integral parking spaces. Note that this is catty-corner from the new Stacks building by Oxford.

2. Four new townhouses in Central North Side (here).

3. A pretty complicated renovation/expansion of the Deutschtown building which used to house the James Street Speakeasy which among other things includes a five-story addition to the rear of the building. They're asking for five variances and four special exceptions, so I think this might run into trouble.

[BrianTH]

Every time I read about another major new Strip project, I think about areas like the North Shore between the stadiums, and the Lower Hill site, and how supposedly there just wasn't market demand enough to move according to the agreed schedules (or fairly value public property and development rights, or so on).

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Every time I read about another major new Strip project, I think about areas like the North Shore between the stadiums, and the Lower Hill site, and how supposedly there just wasn't market demand enough to move according to the agreed schedules (or fairly value public property and development rights, or so on).

While it's tempting to blame it on the developers chosen, IIRC there have been national studies which show that master-planned mega-developments by a single developer tend to move much, much more slowly than when you chop up a developable area into small bits and let less-well-capitalized firms take on one block at a time.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by eschaton

While it's tempting to blame it on the developers chosen, IIRC there have been national studies which show that master-planned mega-developments by a single developer tend to move much, much more slowly than when you chop up a developable area into small bits and let less-well-capitalized firms take on one block at a time.

That's a good point. An example of this, well look at how long it's taken the Lower Hill to move forward. Even the World Trade Center site in lower Manhattan comes to mind as well. All but buildings 2 and 5 have been built; they still have yet to secure tenants for either one of those buildings.

Coming back to the design for this 21 story building. It is starting to grow on me, but suppose they were to incorporate a design like the Cira Center buildings in Philly...

[themaguffin]

I think that the Strip building design is perfectly fine.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

While it's tempting to blame it on the developers chosen, IIRC there have been national studies which show that master-planned mega-developments by a single developer tend to move much, much more slowly than when you chop up a developable area into small bits and let less-well-capitalized firms take on one block at a time.

Oh sure. But part of the reason it took that form is because a specific single buyer was predetermined. If that was not the predetermined outcome, they could haven taken bids from developers for all sorts of possible combinations, and even have a policy preference for multiple developers where viable.

And there is zero real doubt that approach is most likely to maximize the public benefit.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

That's a good point. An example of this, well look at how long it's taken the Lower Hill to move forward. Even the World Trade Center site in lower Manhattan comes to mind as well. All but buildings 2 and 5 have been built; they still have yet to secure tenants for either one of those buildings.

Coming back to the design for this 21 story building. It is starting to grow on me, but suppose they were to incorporate a design like the Cira Center buildings in Philly...

If there are City complaints about the current proposal not “blending in” in the Strip, how do you think they’d react to something that would stand out a million times more in the Strip like a chunky Cira Center-styled tower?

[bmust71]

https://downtownpittsburgh.com/wp-co...on-Package.pdf

Small item but looks like signage will be going on top of the Oxford Center building downtown

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Oh sure. But part of the reason it took that form is because a specific single buyer was predetermined. If that was not the predetermined outcome, they could haven taken bids from developers for all sorts of possible combinations, and even have a policy preference for multiple developers where viable.

And there is zero real doubt that approach is most likely to maximize the public benefit.

Well, we have a third test case now in Pittsburgh - Hazelwood Green. There's no vested interest in slow-walking development as is the case with the North Shore or Lower Hill. Certainly we're seeing some activity now, but it still seems to me to be several years behind the original schedule for the site, with the master plan having gone through at least two revisions now.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by bmust71

https://downtownpittsburgh.com/wp-co...on-Package.pdf

Small item but looks like signage will be going on top of the Oxford Center building downtown

Downtown Pittsburgh: Where Every Building Must Have A Sign


I gotta think it's only a matter of time before PPG and PNC Tower get signs.

I can't think of another city that has so much illuminated lettering on its skyline.

[BobMcKelvin]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

And is it just me, or does the exterior material choice almost look like a nod to the intentionally-rusted steel of the US Steel Tower?

Funny you say this because in the street-level rendering a few pages back I actually had to do a double take because it looked so similar to a street level view at the Steel Tower

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by bmust71

https://downtownpittsburgh.com/wp-co...on-Package.pdf

Small item but looks like signage will be going on top of the Oxford Center building downtown

I didn't see a company name proposing to put signage there. Is it that Kolano Design company? To me, it looks like a draft amendment to a zoning ordinance on signage...

[eschaton]

I was checking over the recent demolition permits, and there's a few things hinting at some projects coming. For example, it appears the old Auburn Street Apartments in Larimer are coming down. In addition, there's a demolition permit for the Citizen's Bank in Downtown East Liberty. Also it's pretty clear demo is about to begin for Walnut Capital's new tower in Oakland, but that was well-known to be beginning soon.