Western Expresso

[Tacheguy]

An important point to keep in mind is that federal transfers in states like the dakotas (all states for that matter) often go directly to clients (usually farmers) rather than state governments. Rigorous comparative analysis is impossible. What is the economic value to North Dakota of the airbase located there? What is the benefit (and cost to urban areas) of protectionist agricultural trade policies, which are advanced and protected by these small state senators?

[esquire]

^ I was wondering the same. This being SSP, my thoughts first went to the Interstate highways which are federally funded. But is that direct procurement from Washington? Or is the money routed through North Dakota first? The answer can have a material impact on those numbers, even though the underlying dynamic doesn't necessarily change.

[Curmudgeon]

Manitoba 2019-20 budget

Revenues: $17.025 bn, Federal transfers $4.262 bn or 25.0%.

Correct Tache, when I said 30 cents on the dollar I meant federal transfers and not solely the equalization component of those transfers which are $2.255 bn or 13.25% of total revenues. An error on my part, I'm not an expert on government budget terms by any measure. So it's 25 rather than 30 cents on the dollar. Perhaps it was 30 cents in one year, I do remember hearing that or reading that. In any event, despite that error, the equalization component is the highest per capita equalization among the provinces excepting N.B. and P.E.I. Not something to be proud of and a testament to the wealth transfer inflicted on Manitoba by Canada in the 60s, 70s and 80s in favour of the two central provinces.

I also agree that direct comparisons of federal support are impossible due to varying criteria. If we do compare federal transfers in Canada to federal aid in the U.S., then Manitoba has a higher portion of its revenues coming from the national capital than do Minnesota and North Dakota, but again, I'm not sure that comparison is valid. And good on little North Dakota, it's now 6th among the states in GDP per capita and tops the Midwest. Minnesota is the region's runner up.

A point I made earlier that Canadians care deeply about how we stack up economically vs. the U.S. has sure proven true. If Canada slips to living standards equivalent to Kazakhstan or Romania, while the U.S. stays near the top of the pack, the consequences, up and to including the continued existence of Canada, would be huge. And I know, I know, we shouldn't be concerned at all. If we have similar living standards to Romania and lower than Greece and a 60 cent dollar we can keep our rose-coloured glasses on and our heads in the sand and say we're better and we are happier and that we have "free" health care. Sunny days folks, sunny days.

[Tacheguy]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Manitoba 2019-20 budget

Revenues: $17.025 bn, Federal transfers $4.262 bn or 25.0%.

Correct Tache, when I said 30 cents on the dollar I meant federal transfers and not solely the equalization component of those transfers which are $2.255 bn or 13.25% of total revenues. An error on my part, I'm not an expert on government budget terms by any measure. So it's 25 rather than 30 cents on the dollar. Perhaps it was 30 cents in one year, I do remember hearing that or reading that. In any event, despite that error, the equalization component is the highest per capita equalization among the provinces excepting N.B. and P.E.I. Not something to be proud of and a testament to the wealth transfer inflicted on Manitoba by Canada in the 60s, 70s and 80s in favour of the two central provinces.

I also agree that direct comparisons of federal support are impossible due to varying criteria. If we do compare federal transfers in Canada to federal aid in the U.S., then Manitoba has a higher portion of its revenues coming from the national capital than do Minnesota and North Dakota, but again, I'm not sure that comparison is valid. And good on little North Dakota, it's now 6th among the states in GDP per capita and tops the Midwest. Minnesota is the region's runner up.

A point I made earlier that Canadians care deeply about how we stack up economically vs. the U.S. has sure proven true. If Canada slips to living standards equivalent to Kazakhstan or Romania, while the U.S. stays near the top of the pack, the consequences, up and to including the continued existence of Canada, would be huge. And I know, I know, we shouldn't be concerned at all. If we have similar living standards to Romania and lower than Greece and a 60 cent dollar we can keep our rose-coloured glasses on and our heads in the sand and say we're better and we are happier and that we have "free" health care. Sunny days folks, sunny days.

I think you raise some valid concerns. I would be interested in what you see as forward looking policy prescriptions?

[dmacc]

The provincial revenues are increased by 33% due to the transfer payments. The provinces revenue is $12.75 billion and the Feds contribute $4.25 which increases our budget by 33%. So you weren't wrong, you just didn't know how you were right haha.

[Tacheguy]

Originally Posted by dmacc

The provincial revenues are increased by 33% due to the transfer payments. The provinces revenue is $12.75 billion and the Feds contribute $4.25 which increases our budget by 33%. So you weren't wrong, you just didn't know how you were right haha.

this issue is that equalization is only one component of federal transfers. the others usually go to all provinces, including payments under the Canada Health Act, Immigration support funding and many others.

[blueandgoldguy]

The average lifespan of a Canadian is 2 years greater than an American. I feel confident saying there is a positive relationship, though not necessarily 100% correlation, between longer lifespans and higher living standards.

[Tacheguy]

I will just leave this here.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4878138/b...d-canada-2019/

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

I will just leave this here.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4878138/b...d-canada-2019/

Direct link:
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...erall-rankings

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

The average lifespan of a Canadian is 2 years greater than an American. I feel confident saying there is a positive relationship, though not necessarily 100% correlation, between longer lifespans and higher living standards.

That's almost entirely the result of tens of millions of Americans at the bottom end of the income scale having poor access to healthcare or access only with crippling deductibles. It's a terrible system and extremely inefficient. Even middle class people with "Cadillac plans" often pay deductibles of over $5,000, sometimes well over. So if you happen to break your arm, which would cost around $2,500, that expense would be out of pocket. That's a lot of money for most people to come up without incurring some interest-bearing debt. The majority of Americans do not have even $500 in ready cash. Taxes paid are very significantly less, but that savings is lost if you have to come up with even one deductible in a given year.

The result is the worst life expectancy among all developed nations, and below even Costa Rica and Chile. The average U.S. life expectancy is only a few months higher than that of Cuba. There is definitely a positive relationship between living standards and life expectancy, and that's why third world countries have the lowest life expectancies, but there are numerous other factors. Spain and Italy have higher life expectancies than Norway, Canada, the Netherlands or Germany. Diet? Wine? Sunshine?

Healthcare is where Canada has a real advantage over the U.S., both social and economic.

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Far larger? A few points higher you're right, 12% vs. 9% for South Dakota. Does that difference alone explain the HDI discrepancy between Man. 0.894 and Sask.0.908 and S. Dakota 0.931 (equivalent to Alberta)? If it does then the suggestion that U.S. policies with respect to indigenous peoples leads to better economic outcomes for the indigenous population becomes reasonable and somewhat probable, and I simply can not believe that that is true without evidence. Again, I think the likely explanation is that those two Canadian provinces have lower economic output.

A question I thought of yesterday that really troubles me is if Canada did not have equalization what would Manitoba's HDI be? Thirty cents on the dollar of Manitoba's budget comes from equalization.

By the way, the lowest HDIs amongst the midwestern states are 0.910 for Indiana and Missouri, and they also arguably have a similar proportion of "at-risk" (another newspeak term) peoples in their populations.

I'm not sure where you got 12% from, it's closer to 17%, which is double the number in South Dakota. The other factor is that most of the poorest reserves in MB & SK are the very remote communities in the far north, hundreds of miles from any city, often no road access. Hard to provide services or have much of an economy when you're that isolated. South Dakota doesn't have any reserves like that.

As for policy, I personally do believe that the US being relatively hands-off, while it hasn't done indigenous people down there any favours, is actually better than the paternalistic meddling our government has done over the years. Just my own opinion of course.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

I'm not sure where you got 12% from, it's closer to 17%, which is double the number in South Dakota. The other factor is that most of the poorest reserves in MB & SK are the very remote communities in the far north, hundreds of miles from any city, often no road access. Hard to provide services or have much of an economy when you're that isolated. South Dakota doesn't have any reserves like that.

As for policy, I personally do believe that the US being relatively hands-off, while it hasn't done indigenous people down there any favours, is actually better than the paternalistic meddling our government has done over the years. Just my own opinion of course.

Also you stated above: As Winnipegger said our "at-risk" populations would explain it. MB and SK have a far larger indigenous population than any other province so the abysmal quality of life on-reserve is almost certainly what's dragging those numbers down.

I'm not including Metis people. The Metis are indigenous peoples but they are not the economically marginalized people that you refer to as the "at risk" population residing on poor reserves which according to you is responsible for Manitoba's lower HDI numbers in comparison with nearby jurisdictions.

According to Manitoba govt. statistics, Metis persons have a median income 85% that of the provincial median for all persons, a labour participation rate not only higher than that of Manitobans as a whole but higher than for Non-Aboriginal persons, home ownership lower than that of Non-Aboriginals (65% compared with 80%), but yet not significantly lower (it's 32% for Registered Indians [that's the term used by govt, not mine]) and more than half of all Metis live in Winnipeg, with a majority of the rest living in other urban areas in southern Manitoba. Only a very negligible number live on reserve. I don't think the argument can be made successfully that the Metis people are economically marginalized to any degree significantly more than are working class Non-Aboriginal persons for example.

South Dakota has no significant Metis population.

[bomberjet]

https://twitter.com/CanadianPacific/...53045469319168

I'm hoping one day CN will do the opposite of what CP has done. CP moved to the burbs from downtown Calgary. I would love for CN one day to set-up shop downtown and bring their offices from Edmonton to Winnipeg. They have a good presence here and land is available along Main St, etc, where they already own land.

[cllew]

CP's move was E Hunter Harrison saving money by remodeling space they owned in CP's Ogden Yard.

If I recall properly from the book I read on Hunter Harrison CP actually made $5 million when a major oil company paid them to move out of the downtown office space he thought was wasteful before their lease was up so the oil company could have office space. He also wanted the head office to be in the rail yard so staff could see the business they were in.

In talking to someone I know that retired from CP here in Winnipeg they apparently did the same thing by moving office staff from a leased call center building in a south Winnipeg Industrial park back into renovated CP owned space in the Weston Shop complex.

CN's Edmonton office is in their Walker Yard so if they moved to Winnipeg they would probably find less expensive space in either the Transcona Shops complex or Symington Yards

[bomberjet]

CN has offices already in Symington. I'm just dreaming is all.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

CN has offices already in Symington. I'm just dreaming is all.

That's where a lot of the staff that were on the 5t floor of City Place ended up moving to when CN closed their downtown Winnipeg office Experiment.

[joshlemer]

Where would you guys go to, if this forum went down for good? The site was down for a day or so a month or two back, and it dawned on me that the site does seem pretty old and could potentially stop being maintained and go away.

[EspionNoir]

Originally Posted by joshlemer

Where would you guys go to, if this forum went down for good? The site was down for a day or so a month or two back, and it dawned on me that the site does seem pretty old and could potentially stop being maintained and go away.

I think this forum is quite big, it covers construction news all around the world, I think it will actually likely be refreshed with a new look someday

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by joshlemer

Where would you guys go to, if this forum went down for good? The site was down for a day or so a month or two back, and it dawned on me that the site does seem pretty old and could potentially stop being maintained and go away.

Reddit seems to have taken the place of many traditional forums. Also there's www.skyscrapercity.com for a very similar site, albeit not as popular. Some of the same folks on here post over there I think.

[headhorse]

most of the calgary forum has already moved over to skyrisecities