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  #6421  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 1:35 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Rooster slayer View Post
I thought the blow through was an after thought is all. It followed. The design or shell of the building was determined and thankfully kept, but the blow through was later determined necessary. They lost some high priced units with that, I don't think it was part of the program.
Actually I'm pretty sure they didn't actually lose any SF and just increased the height of the building slightly. I think that accounts for the descrepancy between the 1150ish number we had originally heard and the final height just below 1,200 we wound up with. There was an engineering article posted a while ago that discussed how the blow thru wasn't in the original design until wind testing determined that they had to do something to resist the sway of such a narrow, slab like, structure. The same article also discussed the interesting unique linked double core of this building which has also been used as slight against this design. Turns out that unique sheer wall configuration was also a result of the massing of the structure and need to locate the core on either side of the street and not because of the frustums as was hypothosized by the anti-Gang contingent here on SSP.

Basically the conclusion of the article was that all the fancy cores, sheer walls, and dampering has nothing to do with the frustum form and everything to do with the extremely narrow, slab like, massing of the building which is basically outside of the architects control given the site constraints and the height of the building.
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  #6422  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 2:00 AM
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I thought the height arguments were centered around where the height was to be measured from (Upper wacker or riverwalk) and that's why the height shifted... I don't think the number of floors changed
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  #6423  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 2:09 AM
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  #6424  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 3:21 AM
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From her raw skeleton to her graceful dress, what a pretty lady Vista turned out...
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  #6425  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 8:04 AM
Dylan Dude Dylan Dude is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
What a striking tower.

Do you guys think this will ever become iconic the way JHC and Aon are? (I’m guessing a strong “no!” but just thought I’d ask)
Why didn't you include Trump Tower? I think Trump Tower looks the best out of all 4 of Chicago's 1,100-1,200 footers
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  #6426  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 1:20 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Dylan Dude View Post
Why didn't you include Trump Tower? I think Trump Tower looks the best out of all 4 of Chicago's 1,100-1,200 footers
No, the Hancock is hands down the best supertall in Chicago. It's a radical, revolutionary building that set the bar for the Modern era of supertall construction. Pretty much everything since then has followed in it's mould.

It's also aesthetically perfect and philosophically pure from a design perspective. It's the perfect incarnation of structural expression and form follows function.

All you have to observe in a debate of Trump vs Hancock is that the JHC was so perfect that no one could find a better way to elevate cars into a podium (which is also seamlessly and perfectly handled unlike Trump) in the 40 years between the two. The JHC helix ramp was so perfect in 1969 that the Trump just copy and pasted it in 2009...
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  #6427  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 2:07 PM
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^ That is a great point. SOM had to look no further their own 40 year old design. Though I see it more as TT helix inspired by JHC, than copy/paste of course.
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  #6428  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 2:13 PM
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Regarding Vista’s “dark band” mechanical floors; it looks to me like that’s just black painted plywood and not the final louvers. Come to think of it, and without scrolling through a million [great] photos, I don’t recall seeing a single louver yet. Perhaps they’re having as much trouble with the louvers as they were with the glass system.
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  #6429  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 2:22 PM
pilsenarch pilsenarch is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Actually I'm pretty sure they didn't actually lose any SF and just increased the height of the building slightly. I think that accounts for the descrepancy between the 1150ish number we had originally heard and the final height just below 1,200 we wound up with. There was an engineering article posted a while ago that discussed how the blow thru wasn't in the original design until wind testing determined that they had to do something to resist the sway of such a narrow, slab like, structure. The same article also discussed the interesting unique linked double core of this building which has also been used as slight against this design. Turns out that unique sheer wall configuration was also a result of the massing of the structure and need to locate the core on either side of the street and not because of the frustums as was hypothosized by the anti-Gang contingent here on SSP.

Basically the conclusion of the article was that all the fancy cores, sheer walls, and dampering has nothing to do with the frustum form and everything to do with the extremely narrow, slab like, massing of the building which is basically outside of the architects control given the site constraints and the height of the building.
Yes, a lot of us read the same engineering article. You are correct, that the frustums had little or no direct effect at all on the structural engineering to prevent sway. However, the tower/frustum design and the goal of maintaining the smooth, 'crystal'-like gemstone effect, did have an effect in the sense that it eliminated the option of locating significant structure at the outer edges of the three towers (to prevent sway) vis a vis a 'tube'-like vertical cantilever (Sears) or even an exoskeleton that would have freed up the exterior of the building for increased views rather than relying on 4' thick concrete shear walls...

There are numerous structural solutions to a tower of this size and shape. In fact I have seen earlier designs from others for this exact program, client, and 3 tower design that employed radically different designs structurally. I am not trying to criticize the innovative structural solutions here, I think they did a remarkable job given the function-follows-form nature of the design...
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  #6430  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 3:09 PM
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  #6431  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 3:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnie View Post
From her raw skeleton to her graceful dress, what a pretty lady Vista turned out...
you have no frame of reference here donnie
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  #6432  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 4:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyguy_7 View Post
Regarding Vista’s “dark band” mechanical floors; it looks to me like that’s just black painted plywood and not the final louvers. Come to think of it, and without scrolling through a million [great] photos, I don’t recall seeing a single louver yet. Perhaps they’re having as much trouble with the louvers as they were with the glass system.
I made a similar(hopeful) observation a few comments back—there are a number of good close up photos that show the black panels sitting recessed in the frames; and they all look to be solid. In particular, the awkwardness of the top segments where only half of the sides of two frustums have the panels, it looks much more likely to me that there is at the very least some sort of finishing detail missing. Best cast scenario is a louver system that has some tonal coherence with the window wall.
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  #6433  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 8:34 PM
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When viewing in person it is quite clear that the black panels are not plywood

If they were temporary, the crew wouldn't bother painting them (like the skip)
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  #6434  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 9:15 PM
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Speaking of the skip.

Does anybody know when they will start bringing them down?
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  #6435  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2019, 10:41 PM
THRILLHO THRILLHO is offline
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Little detail I caught today, looks like Juan was here.



They've started putting up the framing for the screen on the blow through floor, looks MUCH better already.
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  #6436  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2019, 4:51 PM
PittsburghPA PittsburghPA is offline
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I've said it a million times but wow this building is impressive in person.

https://i.imgur.com/Dle8R1e.jpg

Last edited by Tom In Chicago; Oct 7, 2019 at 2:44 PM. Reason: image too large
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  #6437  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2019, 2:43 PM
phanta721 phanta721 is offline
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  #6438  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2019, 3:00 PM
lakeshoredrive lakeshoredrive is offline
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Originally Posted by phanta721 View Post
I’d be so nervous to be on a balcony that high up lol
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  #6439  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2019, 4:35 PM
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Originally Posted by lakeshoredrive View Post
I’d be so nervous to be on a balcony that high up lol
whether it be 10 stories, or 100.. you're the same amount of dead I see what you mean though, I wouldn't exactly be leaning on the railing of that penthouse balcony.

You guys see that lonely black panel on the west side of the 71st floor? It is visible in phanta's pic, going to drive me nuts upon completion.
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  #6440  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2019, 12:03 AM
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