Circuit of the Americas Formula 1 Race Track

[turn1]

Originally Posted by futures

turn1,

What's with your negativity towards the USGP and COTA?

OF COURSE attendance is substantially higher in Mexico City. F1 is incredibly popular there with a Mexican driver that is as revered as an American quarterback. What's the point of comparing that race to the US? F1 has nowhere near the following in the US.

Also, COTA may have lost races over the years, but it has also gained races too. I don't understand the negative tone.

As an Austin resident that happens love F1 and motorsport in general, I'm thrilled to have both COTA and F1 and I'm looking forward to this weekend.

There are plenty of F1 fans in the U.S. Remember when F1 was at Indy? 7 of their 8 crowds were bigger than COTA's biggest crowd ever, and were the biggest in F1 ... bigger even than Mexico City enjoys now. We had no American driver except the last 2 years, and even then it was just Scott Speed. One of those years was the smallest USGP crowd at Indy iirc, and was the only one that wasn't bigger than every COTA USGP crowd to date. COTA's small crowds are not down to a small market or a lack of fans or lack of an American driver. The USGP had a long history of well-attended GPs until Epstein got ahold of it. Why do you think the U.S. has had more years with multiple GPs than any other country? We even had 3 GPs one year. The idea that the U.S. has a 'small' F1 fanbase is a myth.

Why do I and many others not have a positive view of COTA? It's not so much COTA itself. COTA's a great layout and once was a great facility, before the track, etc was allowed to deteriorate. Epstein is the problem. I guess you haven't been paying attention to the way he's trying to derail the Austin political process, stop the MLS team coming here, how he's gaming the MERP to continue pulling tens of millions of public money out of State coffers, etc. $200 million so far. If you're good with all of that, then ok, cool. Go have a great time at COTA this weekend! Being a huge F1 and general racing fan myself and having attended every racing session ever at COTA, I'm sure you will! But if you don't like people speaking out about shit that's really happening, I don't know what to tell you.

Re: COTA and racing series gained and lost, they have exactly one major series now that they didn't have early on - IndyCar. In just 7 years, they've lost V8SC, FIAWEC, IMSA, PWC/SRO, WRX, and the X Games ... at least 3 of those pulling out mid-contract or after 1 year.

[the Genral]

They are probably going to lose Indy eventually too unless the dismal attendance dramatically improves. Those empty seats look terrible on TV. Also, Epstein makes it hard to root for COTA, but I am pretty darn proud Austin has it, I just wish it was in better hands.

[turn1]

Originally Posted by the Genral

They are probably going to lose Indy eventually too unless the dismal attendance dramatically improves. Those empty seats look terrible on TV. Also, Epstein makes it hard to root for COTA, but I am pretty darn proud Austin has it, I just wish it was in better hands.

Yeah, me too. It's a shame. I was one of the guys who helped in rallying support to get all the approvals COTA needed early on. Sadly, I had no way to know what was in store with Epstein.

Re: IndyCar, yeah, that was embarrassing, even by IndyCar road race crowd standards. There were only about 30,000 seats even in use, and they were maybe 30% full, at best.

[hookem]

Originally Posted by turn1

Yeah, me too. It's a shame. I was one of the guys who helped in rallying support to get all the approvals COTA needed early on. Sadly, I had no way to know what was in store with Epstein.

I was one of those guys rallying at the beginning too. And I've enjoyed going to most of the F1 races here. But I do think the F1 audience in the USA has shrunk dramatically, the TV ratings pretty much bear that out. And attendance is down among most racing events in the US across the board (maybe affecting the Canadian GP too?). You remember this article - https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2.../#20c4f8f2d4f1

Yes, COTA seems particularly poor in attendance, especially with the non-F1 races. Obvious management issues. They don't seem to want to spend the money to properly maintain the track or promote the races; but even if they spent all the money in the world, I'm not sure we'd ever see the crowds Indy was attracting nearly 20 years ago.

Perhaps Miami will show that F1 is viable in the USA. But it really will take a few races to know for sure.

[turn1]

Originally Posted by hookem

I was one of those guys rallying at the beginning too. And I've enjoyed going to most of the F1 races here. But I do think the F1 audience in the USA has shrunk dramatically, the TV ratings pretty much bear that out. And attendance is down among most racing events in the US across the board (maybe affecting the Canadian GP too?). You remember this article - https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2.../#20c4f8f2d4f1

Yes, COTA seems particularly poor in attendance, especially with the non-F1 races. Obvious management issues. They don't seem to want to spend the money to properly maintain the track or promote the races; but even if they spent all the money in the world, I'm not sure we'd ever see the crowds Indy was attracting nearly 20 years ago.

Perhaps Miami will show that F1 is viable in the USA. But it really will take a few races to know for sure.

The racing audience has likely shrunk some, but not just here in the U.S. I'm not sure tv ratings are a good barometer of that though, as F1 ratings were never very high in the U.S., even when crowds at the GPs were huge.

I don't really believe Montreal attendance is down. I was at the 2017 race Sylt talks about in the article. That crowd was massive. Every grandstand was literally completely full. It was at least as crowded as the 2010 Canadian GP I attended which had 140K in attendance. It's very interesting as he seems to hint that F1 only reduced those 2017 numbers in order to show an overall increase in attendance from 2017 to 2018, rather than the loss that would have resulted had they not 'adjusted' them.

And yeah, Miami will definitely be an interesting case, if they can get it off the ground.

[futures]

Originally Posted by turn1

Why do I and many others not have a positive view of COTA? It's not so much COTA itself. COTA's a great layout and once was a great facility, before the track, etc was allowed to deteriorate. Epstein is the problem. I guess you haven't been paying attention to the way he's trying to derail the Austin political process, stop the MLS team coming here, how he's gaming the MERP to continue pulling tens of millions of public money out of State coffers, etc. $200 million so far. If you're good with all of that, then ok, cool. Go have a great time at COTA this weekend! Being a huge F1 and general racing fan myself and having attended every racing session ever at COTA, I'm sure you will! But if you don't like people speaking out about shit that's really happening, I don't know what to tell you.

I'm certainly not blind to Epstein and his antics. I'm fully tuned in to all of the drama there. I just don't see how people get so bent out of shape over the state funding issue (for COTA specifically) when tax breaks and kickbacks happen all over the country/world to lure businesses, events, sports teams, etc. every single year. F1/Liberty Media itself is pretty much synonymous with tax evasion. You sure seem to be proud to look down from your high horse on that specific topic though.

I guess I'm still rooting hard for COTA to succeed because it could and should be such a crown jewel to Austin. And yes, I'll be at F1 this weekend with a smile on my face. I can enjoy the race and separate my hatred for Epstein from the track / event itself and have a perfectly enjoyable weekend.

And you're right, I can't / don't care to stop people from talking about the management issues. All of which are certainly valid. I'm just so tired of it, so I'll see myself out of this thread.

[Austin1971]

F

[The ATX]

Originally Posted by Austin1971

Facing opposition in Miami

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...eting/4589223/

Ha. It would be funny if Epstein was supporting the opposition.

[turn1]

Originally Posted by futures

I'm certainly not blind to Epstein and his antics. I'm fully tuned in to all of the drama there. I just don't see how people get so bent out of shape over the state funding issue (for COTA specifically) when tax breaks and kickbacks happen all over the country/world to lure businesses, events, sports teams, etc. every single year. F1/Liberty Media itself is pretty much synonymous with tax evasion. You sure seem to be proud to look down from your high horse on that specific topic though.

I guess I'm still rooting hard for COTA to succeed because it could and should be such a crown jewel to Austin. And yes, I'll be at F1 this weekend with a smile on my face. I can enjoy the race and separate my hatred for Epstein from the track / event itself and have a perfectly enjoyable weekend.

And you're right, I can't / don't care to stop people from talking about the management issues. All of which are certainly valid. I'm just so tired of it, so I'll see myself out of this thread.

Ah, the old "It happens in other places and in other ways, so why be upset when it happens here" tactic.

I want COTA to succeed and think it could/should be our crown jewel, too. That's why I've always tried to help make that happen. But I'm not blind, and I'm not willing to sell my soul for it. I don't think we should try to make COTA our crown jewel at any cost, no matter how big of a racing fan I am or how many races I've been to or will go to there in the future.

And no, I'm not defending or ignoring any crap F1 is pulling, but how does that justify COTA's antics?

I'm not on any high horse. I'm just calling bullshit what it is. Sorry that offends you so, but I'm not gonna stop.

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by turn1

Ah, the old "It happens in other places and in other ways, so why be upset when it happens here" tactic.

I want COTA to succeed and think it could/should be our crown jewel, too. That's why I've always tried to help make that happen. But I'm not blind, and I'm not willing to sell my soul for it. I don't think we should try to make COTA our crown jewel at any cost, no matter how big of a racing fan I am or how many races I've been to or will go to there in the future.

And no, I'm not defending or ignoring any crap F1 is pulling, but how does that justify COTA's antics?

I'm not on any high horse. I'm just calling bullshit what it is. Sorry that offends you so, but I'm not gonna stop.

Your candid insights regarding motor sports and COTA is appreciated by me.
I perceive any negativity from you, me, or anybody as more disappointment than hateful ranting. The same thing can be said for anyone ranting about the Cowboys, Jets, Longhorns, ect… COTA is a beautiful track, but ask Moto GP racers about the bumps and rough areas around the track that after a year of complaining for repairs, they still reported the same issues in the same areas the next year. Let's hope they don't bolt. If the rant is legit, then its justified.

[turn1]

Originally Posted by the Genral

Your candid insights regarding motor sports and COTA is appreciated by me.
I perceive any negativity from you, me, or anybody as more disappointment than hateful ranting. The same thing can be said for anyone ranting about the Cowboys, Jets, Longhorns, ect… COTA is a beautiful track, but ask Moto GP racers about the bumps and rough areas around the track that after a year of complaining for repairs, they still reported the same issues in the same areas the next year. Let's hope they don't bolt. If the rant is legit, then its justified.

Thanks, man. It's nice to get a little backup. The soccer crowd has helped with that awakening recently too, opening a lot of eyes.

It's just so tiring hearing the same old line "Well, I know it's all obviously shady AF, but it benefits me as a fan and other people do it too, so I'm just gonna roll with it".

[urbancore]

My question is...would we have F1 without the state funding? I highly doubt it.

I think we got Formula One due to and only due to MERP.

After Texas set up the fund, and gave it $200m (and much more to come) to wealthy men, we all regret it, myself included. But that was always going to be the case, no matter who the money went to.

[futures]

Originally Posted by turn1

It's just so tiring hearing the same old line "Well, I know it's all obviously shady AF, but it benefits me as a fan and other people do it too, so I'm just gonna roll with it".

Says the guy whose entire twitter is dedicated to promoting F1? The list of shady dealings in that sport goes on and on.

Your twitter also offers free tickets to the USGP and continual updates on the race???

Maybe you are rolling with it too but acting above it in this forum?

[turn1]

Originally Posted by urbancore

My question is...would we have F1 without the state funding? I highly doubt it.

I think we got Formula One due to and only due to MERP.

After Texas set up the fund, and gave it $200m (and much more to come) to wealthy men, we all regret it, myself included. But that was always going to be the case, no matter who the money went to.

No, you're right. Zero chance the track gets built without the MERP. They based their business plan on that subsidy.

[turn1]

Originally Posted by futures

Says the guy whose entire twitter is dedicated to promoting F1? The list of shady dealings in that sport goes on and on.

Your twitter also offers free tickets to the USGP and continual updates on the race???

Maybe you are rolling with it too but acting above it in this forum?

LOL I thought you were out of here.

My twitter doesn't 'promote' F1. It gives racing fans news about all kinds of motorsport ... the good and the bad. I get accused by you of being overly negative if I'm not 100% positive all the time, but now you're saying if I'm negative I have to be 100% negative all the time. Wow. No such thing as nuance or a middle ground, eh? Like I've maintained all along, I am a huge F1 fan who wants COTA to succeed and has helped in that all along. However I'm not going to sugarcoat everything. My twitter account reflects that exactly.

Tweeting a link to win free tickets isn't promoting F1 or COTA. Do512 is giving out those tickets. Whoever wins them will get to go without paying F1 or COTA. Here everyone, if you want free tickets...

https://t.co/SPmchV8zh9

[turn1]

OBTW, looks like the MS150 is leaving COTA, too.

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by turn1

OBTW, looks like the MS150 is leaving COTA, too.

IMO....a world class track with the right people at the helm should be attracting a plethora of events with conflicting scheduling due to high demand. Maybe Austin isn't the best city to support this venue aside from F1, IDK, I would really be interested in why so many events are pulling out to get the whole picture. Maybe the track isn't really conducive to events that aren't meant to run on an F1 track. Maybe its a management issue or even the location of COTA. Perhaps its a promotion issue or a support issue once an event is acquired. After all consideration, it might boil down to lack of attendance.
Austin just doesn't seem like a motor sport town. Epstein knows this which is why he added an amphitheater and a soccer team. He might as well add a petting zoo, aquarium, and a theme park or carnival to the mix. In my travels, I find you have to keep polishing the diamond once the newness wears off and not rely on the arrogance that you're sitting on a world class track and that's all it takes to maintain or grow venues. There has to be abundant incentives that are apparently dwindling hence all that COTA has lost so far. I wonder what's left to replace them? And who's next to leave, the National College Solar Car competition? Many events came here, I think out of curiosity while it seemed popular at the time. Another analogy, the food was good but the service / experience, meh. Been there done that. Actually the one event that could be huge for COTA, NASCAR, will never happen. The track would have to be able to accommodate 43 stock cars, which reasonably it can't.

[StoOgE]

I think some of the lower tier events leaving COTA is overplayed.

Motorsports is down in general and if you aren't a top tier event attendance is hard globally. Same in Europe for sports that aren't Moto GP and F1.

Indy is a second tier sport in most fans eyes. Even back in the golden days of Indy it had limited fan reach, and the last 20 years of shitshow governing that sport has been less than helpful.

I am absolutely not a fan of Esptein and think he does a shit-tier job of promoting COTA. But the only events he could get that have any potential interest are:

Top Tier - F1 and Nascar
2nd Tier - Moto GP (little US popularity)
3rd Tier - Indy - If Indy gets its shit together and COTA tries to build the sport up it could go places.

Everything else is either wildly unpopular in the US or is wildly unpopular worldwide. He could nuture those better and get more small events out at the track, but I've been to a number of events around the US for smaller tier racing and mostly empty stands are not out of the norm.

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by The ATX

Ha. It would be funny if Epstein was supporting the opposition.

I can confirm that he is supporting the opposition in Miami.

[hookem]

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

I can confirm that he is supporting the opposition in Miami.

Pretty bold considering F1 will surely discover this. Is it a negotiating tactic? Is he basically saying, "I will ensure F1 will not have another race in the USA unless you cut me this deal".. ? It seems like a very risky strategy if he is looking to renew the COTA deal beyond the original 10 year contract.