Winnipeg Roads & Infrastructure

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by Bdog

I spend a lot of time at Cousins in West Broadway, especially during patio season. Have any of you been there in summer? Between the patios, bike racks, Thom Bargen's tree-bench, signs, planters and other poles/posts, there are probably a dozen "choke points" that I can think of off the top of my head between Westminster and Sara along that stretch of Sherbrook. But it's considered a great urban environment, so I guess it's no travesty when the sidewalk along that stretch narrows to 5' in spots. Same goes for popular stretches of Bannatyne, Osborne, and Corydon. Selective outrage I guess.

Reduce a public sidewalk to 7' for loading: Inaccessible! Look at the backlog of people trying to get by that open car door which will clearly stay open all day! Car culture has ruined our city.

Reduce a public sidewalk to 6' or less for a private patio on the next street over: Excellent! What a quaint urban feel, we need more of this! Narrow sidewalks encourage interaction and spontaneous connections! Just like when I spent the weekend in Copenhagen. Jane Jacobs would love this.

I don't think myself or anyone else on this forum has praised Sherbrook's sidewalk widths as they currently are, but I do appreciate a good strawman argument, so thanks for that.

[bomberjet]

Can we stop talking about the sidewalk.

[bomberjet]

http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/DMIS/perm...191001(RM)PW-1

Included in this meeting is the proposal to fund the ring road study. Calling it W.A.T.S. again.

Also included is the NIMBY request, which we've seen before, to lower speeds on Kenaston through Waverley West.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by wardlow

I don't think myself or anyone else on this forum has praised Sherbrook's sidewalk widths as they currently are, but I do appreciate a good strawman argument, so thanks for that.

My point is that there are dozens of instances of narrow sidewalks in the Exchange, many just metres away from this infamous "scared suburban dance parents in SUVs" sidewalk. If accessibility is the concern, then why not go to the papers when Amsterdam Tea Room opened their patio narrowing the sidewalk significantly? Why not when Forth narrowed the sidewalk with the outdoor bench areas? How about when 441 Main's patio cuts the sidewalk down to barely 5 feet? Lots of cases of public sidewalks getting narrowed for "private interests", but not many accessibility advocates coming out of the woodwork in those cases.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Can we stop talking about the sidewalk.

Yes please.

Let's move on!!

[Authentic_City]

An interesting idea. The shared street. Could potentially work in the Exchange.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...rict-1.5305374

[LilZebra]

...

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/DMIS/perm...191001(RM)PW-1

Included in this meeting is the proposal to fund the ring road study. Calling it W.A.T.S. again.

Also included is the NIMBY request, which we've seen before, to lower speeds on Kenaston through Waverley West.

Best thing that can be done is build a pedestrian bridge over Kenaston Blvd. rather than slow speeds down. But that will cost some $. Do we have $ for a small bridge like that, like they'd do everywhere else?

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

An interesting idea. The shared street. Could potentially work in the Exchange.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...rict-1.5305374

I'm surprised none of the articles referenced John Hirsch Place, our very own shared street just blocks away from this proposed area.

[Authentic_City]

^John Hirsch Place is a Woonerf. Is that basically the same thing as this shared street idea?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

Best thing that can be done is build a pedestrian bridge over Kenaston Blvd. rather than slow speeds down. But that will cost some $. Do we have $ for a small bridge like that, like they'd do everywhere else?

Last night I went down to Waverley West's shopping district for the first time in a couple of years. The little strip mall clump is not bad as far as strip mall clumps go, but the weird Kenaston high speed one-way pair is just a head scratcher. There was a steady line of semis barreling down on their way out of town, and the road itself feels like a normal suburban collector without shoulders and designed for low speeds and low traffic volumes, but with a limit of 80 km/h and lots of cars/trucks.

It's like they wanted this stretch of Kenaston to be St. James St. and the Perimeter Highway at the same time. Not surprisingly, it accomplishes neither task very well. If I lived around there, I have to admit I would be frightened by the prospect of my children crossing Kenaston... it's just crazy the way it's laid out.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

An interesting idea. The shared street. Could potentially work in the Exchange.

The shared street concept itself is an interesting idea. That said it is easy to see how this is going to be completely "value engineered" if implemented. The best way to do it would be to build the street up to the sidewalk level. Reality is that will be cost prohibitive. Instead what will happen is the sidewalks will be dropped to the street height. This means that any building that has a somewhat accessible level entrance with the sidewalk will now have an elevated entrance with near zero change of a proper ramp from the sidewalk.

Considering the challenges that alone will raise this proposal really needs to get killed before it gains any traction. At most put it forward for consideration as a future project with proper funding, not some half baked experiment.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by esquire

Last night I went down to Waverley West's shopping district for the first time in a couple of years. The little strip mall clump is not bad as far as strip mall clumps go, but the weird Kenaston high speed one-way pair is just a head scratcher. There was a steady line of semis barreling down on their way out of town, and the road itself feels like a normal suburban collector without shoulders and designed for low speeds and low traffic volumes, but with a limit of 80 km/h and lots of cars/trucks.

It's like they wanted this stretch of Kenaston to be St. James St. and the Perimeter Highway at the same time. Not surprisingly, it accomplishes neither task very well. If I lived around there, I have to admit I would be frightened by the prospect of my children crossing Kenaston... it's just crazy the way it's laid out.

Well, in typical fashion, it was envisioned to have over-passes at all the intersections. So it would have worked if it had been built properly. I agree though, it doesn't seem to work well either way now......I drive it every day.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Considering the challenges that alone will raise this proposal really needs to get killed before it gains any traction. At most put it forward for consideration as a future project with proper funding, not some half baked experiment.

I agree that it should be done right or not at all, but I don't think we should be so utterly paralyzed by fear of change that we want to dismiss the idea out of hand before even considering it.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by Biff

Well, in typical fashion, it was envisioned to have over-passes at all the intersections. So it would have worked if it had been built properly. I agree though, it doesn't seem to work well either way now......I drive it every day.

Yea if only the city didn't break at the developer's whining, these families could be crossing kenaston at an intersection with the on/off ramps which would be a non issues, but now they cross the roadway that should be a freeway.

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by esquire

It's like they wanted this stretch of Kenaston to be St. James St. and the Perimeter Highway at the same time. Not surprisingly, it accomplishes neither task very well.

The ability for a contemporary stroad to fail as a transportation corridor *and* a neighbourhood street in equal measure is kind of impressive.

Discouraging that this is the standard, and that traffic engineers with all their rings and stamps and rationality can't see this coming a mile away.

Meanwhile the city is approving a lot of high density development right on Centre Street so that the small-scale commercial uses actually have a local customer base, since the road design of Kenaston basically cuts off the rest of Waverley West from their own 'town centre.'

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Pretty sure the sidewalk on Garry was reduced to 7' or less to make way for the bike lane. Too bad it isn't near someone's pet project so we can read article after article in the Free Press about that.

For the record, no, the sidewalks on Garry Street were not narrowed at all for the bike lane project. New sidewalks were poured to replace the old crumbling and uneven ones, but in exactly the same place. The space for the bike lane came from taking an entire lane away from car traffic.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

For the record, no, the sidewalks on Garry Street were not narrowed at all for the bike lane project. New sidewalks were poured to replace the old crumbling and uneven ones, but in exactly the same place. The space for the bike lane came from taking an entire lane away from car traffic.

They definitely pulled the east side curb into the space the was the old sidewalk. I saw it happening. Maybe the plans called for different but that it what was actually done. Don't believe me? Get your tape measure out as that sidewalk is 7' or less. It isn't near someone's pet project though so it isn't getting any media coverage.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

They definitely pulled the east side curb into the space the was the old sidewalk. I saw it happening. Maybe the plans called for different but that it what was actually done. Don't believe me? Get your tape measure out as that sidewalk is 7' or less. It isn't near someone's pet project though so it isn't getting any media coverage.

The plan called for a little over 9 and a half feet of sidewalk... at which points is it narrower? I don't often walk up Garry so I hadn't noticed any pinch points.

[bomberjet]

I like the patio on the street. That's the way it should be. take some parking spaces away.