PHILADELPHIA | Trump Tower Philadelphia | 528 FT / 161 M | 45 FLOORS | NEVER BUILT

[CondoGuru]

Originally Posted by bryson662001

Maybe the developer has really deep pockets and will wait until later for financing even as they are building.

I've never heard of that happening before in Philadelphia. Some banks will extend financing for construction before any sales have occurred only in a tight, high-demand market like Manhattan, for example. They will sometimes do that because they're confident the building will sell out quickly at a higher price per foot than what they'd get off floorplans during pre-sales. Does anyone really believe that will happen here? And on Columbus Blvd. no less?

[LittleMike]

edit: found my anser in the OP

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by CondoGuru

Can someone also explain how construction can begin before pre-sales have even started? They need to first open a sales center and pre-sell in order to close on their construction financing. Btw, drilling one caisson isn't a groundbreaking, it's called site prep in case there needs to be soil remediation work done.

the sales office is going to be on the 57th floor of one liberty place, with a great view of the site from there. that is being worked on right now. this will be temporary until the building is complete enough to move the sales office to inside trump tower iteself.
i don't want to give you an exact time as to when it will be open, but it should be in the next month or so.

[BigDan35]

So obviously, construction on Trump will not be starting this month...probably not this year even.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by BigDan35

So obviously, construction on Trump will not be starting this month...probably not this year even.

I don't know how you get to that from what I posted, but it is not necessarily true. I don't have an exact time when construction will begin, I have only posted what I have been told by those working on the project. I was told that construction would begin in november, then I found out that the test caisson was what was going in, so whether they consider that construction or groundbreaking or what, I don't know, but it is progress. if there is soil remediation to occur, then that is part of site prep. it's semantics, as to when they consider to the building to be under construction. but it is going forward, and not being held based on some number of pre-sales, as far as I know.

[bryson662001]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

the sales office is going to be on the 57th floor of one liberty place, with a great view of the site from there. that is being worked on right now.

That seems a little awkward. The Residences at Two Liberty next door would seem to be a major challenger and frankly they are a hard act to follow. I have seen what they are offering and it's more spectacular then anything this town has seen yet. Will Trump Tower offer boat slips do you know? That would be worth somthing.

Originally Posted by CondoGuru

I've never heard of that happening before in Philadelphia. Some banks will extend financing for construction before any sales have occurred only in a tight, high-demand market like Manhattan, for example. They will sometimes do that because they're confident the building will sell out quickly at a higher price per foot than what they'd get off floorplans during pre-sales. Does anyone really believe that will happen here? And on Columbus Blvd. no less?

Everything you are saying makes perfect sense. Just as Trump Tower makes no sense whatever. It is only because of Skyscraper's posts that I am even taking it seriously for the time being.

[CondoGuru]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

I was told that construction would begin in november, [...] and not being held based on some number of pre-sales, as far as I know.

I think it's great that you're enthusiastic about the project since you worked on its design, but it is absolutely unheard of for a financial institution to bankroll a $300,000,000 project with no signed contracts and deposits...doesn't happen. Especially not in this town, and definitely not in this climate. It's not semantics, it's money. You can hire D'Angelo Bros. to move dirt around all you want, test soil, etc...unless concrete is rising out of the ground, there's no construction.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by CondoGuru

I think it's great that you're enthusiastic about the project since you worked on its design, but it is absolutely unheard of for a financial institution to bankroll a $300,000,000 project with no signed contracts and deposits...doesn't happen. Especially not in this town, and definitely not in this climate. It's not semantics, it's money. You can hire D'Angelo Bros. to move dirt around all you want, test soil, etc...unless concrete is rising out of the ground, there's no construction.

you are making assumptions, you have no knowledge of this project.

[CondoGuru]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

you are making assumptions, you have no knowledge of this project.

No sales office = no sales...no sales = no deposits...no deposits = no construction. It has nothing to do with your project in particular, but a pretty basic sequence of necessary events in new development, in which I've worked for quite a longtime. It wasn't a personal attack on you, but by your own admission, you're an architect not a developer. Nor are you an institutional banker for that matter. Personally, I think it would be great for Philly if it gets built, but for that to happen, several things which have not yet occured, need to take place. Don't get defensive over things you have no knowledge of either, it makes you look naive.

[Palms]

Originally Posted by CondoGuru

No sales office = no sales...no sales = no deposits...no deposits = no construction.

If I recall correctly The Murano came on us like a bat out of hell. That project didn't have much if any pre-sales before the concrete started rising. Not saying that will be the case with Trump Philadelphia but the point being there are exceptions. The credibilty/connections/bankroll of the developer obviously is a key component

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by CondoGuru

No sales office = no sales...no sales = no deposits...no deposits = no construction. It has nothing to do with your project in particular, but a pretty basic sequence of necessary events in new development, in which I've worked for quite a longtime. It wasn't a personal attack on you, but by your own admission, you're an architect not a developer. Nor are you an institutional banker for that matter. Personally, I think it would be great for Philly if it gets built, but for that to happen, several things which have not yet occured, need to take place. Don't get defensive over things you have no knowledge of either, it makes you look naive.

I am not naive, nor am I defensive. I do not take your comments personally, I would have said the same thing even if I had nothing to do with this project.
I just hate it when people shit on things that they have no knowledge about. I have knowledge of this project, you do not. The financing is in place, the permits are in place, they are ready to go. so stop talking about what you do not know about and watch it rise out of the ground.

[KillerIman]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

I am not naive, nor am I defensive. I do not take your comments personally, I would have said the same thing even if I had nothing to do with this project.
I just hate it when people shit on things that they have no knowledge about. I have knowledge of this project, you do not. The financing is in place, the permits are in place, they are ready to go. so stop talking about what you do not know about and watch it rise out of the ground.

i think i'm in love

i'm freakin excited for this project. this may spark the sugarhouse development, which in turn, should spark all of the other floundering projects.

[Swinefeld]

I can't believe such a "boring" building is generating such heat.

KillerIman, I hope this does spark Sugarhouse. These casinos in Philly are the most demagogued projects I've ever seen locally, and that's saying a lot.

[CondoGuru]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

The financing is in place, the permits are in place, they are ready to go. so stop talking about what you do not know about and watch it rise out of the ground.

I'm not shitting on the project as you attest, but I'm asking logical questions that I seriously doubt an architect would know the answers to. I've never worked on a project that included an architect in meetings with a construction lender. And approvals and permits do NOT equate to closing on a construction loan. You can budget out the opening of a sales center, ground prep and soil tests BEFORE you close on construction financing. You cannot however, put the cart before the horse. I'm hoping it does move forward, but blanket statements about construction starting before any sales have begun is wild speculation in this business...all I'm sayin.

[donybrx]

It is pretty tepid for Trump, but as has been noted, this is likely a Trump franchise. I'd much rather see the more interesting Tump SoHo design brought to the Philly site (odd for me in that I'm never a Trump fan).

This tower as proposed could be called the Trump Mundane

[CondoGuru]

Originally Posted by Palms

If I recall correctly The Murano came on us like a bat out of hell. That project didn't have much if any pre-sales before the concrete started rising. Not saying that will be the case with Trump Philadelphia but the point being there are exceptions. The credibilty/connections/bankroll of the developer obviously is a key component

I remember them opening their sales center in the fall of 2005 and starting construction in spring of 2006...roughly 6 months apart. Again, they did a massive amount of prep work and soil remediation before they actually got financing and broke ground. There was plenty of speculation as to whether or not it would move forward until Turner showed up and concrete came out of the ground.

[skellergroup]

Just trying to think positive here....perhaps the facade/glass of the building will be the story behind the so/so design.

Much as Comcast was panned before construction began, the glass of Comcast really makes the building. Perhaps it will be the same case with this guy.

Again, wishfull thinking

[TheMeltyMan]

For the site, I think the building is beyond what we could ask from any developer. For Trump, its a tiny little crap but its on Front St. If he built in place of the new Rittenhouse or Ritz properties, we might have seen a better proposal, but one that'd just blend in. If you want to ever see the Sugarhouse, or Waterfront III-V, and those other buildings that were probably canceled we'll just have to accept the blue rectangle.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by CondoGuru

I'm not shitting on the project as you attest, but I'm asking logical questions that I seriously doubt an architect would know the answers to. I've never worked on a project that included an architect in meetings with a construction lender. And approvals and permits do NOT equate to closing on a construction loan. You can budget out the opening of a sales center, ground prep and soil tests BEFORE you close on construction financing. You cannot however, put the cart before the horse. I'm hoping it does move forward, but blanket statements about construction starting before any sales have begun is wild speculation in this business...all I'm sayin.

I've said all I'm going to say; I'm going to let the cranes do my talking for me.

[RayZ]

As Skyscraper reported (would happen in November), some sort of foundation/test caisson work is, in fact, occurring at the Trump site as of today. There are several large drills/other equipment on site.