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  #121  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 3:36 PM
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Pushing LRT past the entrance makes sense since you aren't tied up by slower travel times through a residential area. I think a good example of this is at the Cascade Station stops on the Portland MAX, which serve several power centers and Ikea. I've seen plenty of people carrying large Ikea boxes on the MAX, which stops a good deal away from the entrance.

That being said, I made it clear that these were within a 1/2 mile radius of a potential station location, so if traffic flow mandated it, we could easily have it south or north of there. Nothing, however, would make this successful if it loses its purpose of carrying troops.

I think that, too, was addressed by Cascade Station and is the primary reason the stations are set back-- to prevent commercial traffic from hindering the Red Line's purpose as an Aiport line.
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  #122  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2008, 8:49 AM
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Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam View Post
Very good points. However, I think you missed understood me.

I completely agree about Thomas wanting the line to run through his property and in both Alex and I's line, it does, mine is just in the southern, more residential and commercial area while Alex's goes directly in front of the development.

My position is that I think Thomas would have a problem with the train blocking traffic every time it went through. Who knows, I could be completely off and he's fine with it. But let's say he is, would that be the best thing? After it stops, people will get out and well, have to walk across an asphalt jungle. If only the light rail where going through their before The Rim was designed, it could have probably been a really cool new urbanism type development.

P.S.

No one here has called The Rim upscale, nor should they. Even when The Village is built, it'll still be a massive power center. A 2 million square foot power lifestyle center overshadows a 300,000 square foot mixed-used Upscale Village.

You make excellent points as well. There would be significant interface challenges for LRT service running in front of the development- most significantly, the previously existing ROW has been replaced by developments: from north to south (Chick-fil-a, Security Service, Ranch at the Rim, Magiano's, and Mimi's Cafe.) While these businesses are slightly east of the former ROW, the actual location of the ROW has been turned into a 15 foot draineage ditch. So they'd have to cover that before they could lay tracks. I'm not sure there is room for a station/platform in there anywhere except on the northern edge on the undeveloped land in front of Lowe's. There is also the not so small problem of at grade crossings. While there are three or four crossings into the development from the 10 frontage road, the challenge would still have to be met. I still believe these challanges would be easier to resolve than the technical challenges of going through the active quarry to get to NW Millitary and scaling a 150/200 vertical climb where the current quarrying work ends and the undisturbed land begins to the east of the rim development/west of NW Millitary. Not to mention the ballyhoo that would be raised by some sections of the community if plans were laid to go through Eisenhower Park. You dont need me to tell you how "progressive" of a community SA can be. (Anyone remember the 281 ordeal 20+ years ago trying to put a freeway through another city park? Essentially,they are only now finishing the entirety of the project with the completion of the 281/410 interchange because of community opposition to the project prevented construction of a proper interchange back in the day). The crusty geezer retiree population would bit*h just to have something to bit*h about- cause that's what they do. So I'd be inclined to beliveve that the path of least resistance would be to take the track to the back of Bullis, meaning through the front of the Rim.

Also, I agree that there's way too much asphault out there, but I think a closer evaluation is necessary before we start talking about treks through an asphault jungle. If LRT service used the old ROW running parallel to the I-10 access road, it's no more than 750-1000 meters from the front doors of Circuit City, the Palladium, Bass Pro, Habenero's, Cabo, Dicks, Staples, and Lowe's. It's not that far of a walk. Yeah, it's a bit more of a walk to Lifetime, JCPenny's, and Old Navy, but I'd be willing to bet that the entities within 1000 meters of the old ROW draw the majority of visitors to the development.

Finally, I didn't mean to imply that anyone on here had called the Rim upscale. That's language used extensively by Thomas. They can call it exclusive all they want, but saying it doesn't make it so. No more so than me walking into a deli makes me a sandwich.
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  #123  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2008, 10:59 AM
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sirkingwilliam sirkingwilliam is offline
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I think maybe a rational and fiscal solution to the asphalt could be maybe a trolley that serviced the entire development. Maybe multiple trolley's.

They could be used not only for LRT passengers but also visitors who go there in their own automobiles but then could use the trolley to go from Santikos to Staples or Lowe's instead of their car.

Maybe something like this:



Or if they want to go a more cost effective route, maybe:



It would solve any transporting problems as well as add a small charm to The Rim.
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  #124  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 12:33 AM
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Well, I registered www.thinklightrailsa.com

Any suggestions on what to do?
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  #125  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 12:37 AM
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Get a Mambo.
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  #126  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 12:41 AM
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i got a flyer from my city councilman today... check out www.lightrailsa.org - its part of www.greensanantonio.org

there is a place there to sign a petition to voice your support for light rail.

sirking - maybe you could like to that site, encouraging people to sign the petition and then post various routes from people around the forum and various stories of successful light rail campaigns from other similar cities...
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  #127  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 1:38 AM
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Well that's good that a local council person is taking a interest in light rail.

I'll definitely link to his site.

Is anyone good with Mambo?
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  #128  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 2:10 AM
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Here's one more link. David Hendricks of the E-N business blog "clocking in" answers a question about light rail.



County Judge Nelson Wolff has talked about reviving light rail since before the May election extending the visitor tax. What is not clear is where the money would come from.

Remember, we all went through this in 2000. Voters, by a 70-30 margin, turned down a $1.5 billion light rail plan that would have been funded by a half-cent sales tax. That is why VIA Metropolitan Transit eventually started planning a Bus Rapid Transit that would provide similar service, only on rubber tires, starting with the Fredericksburg Road corridor.

The prudent course for VIA is to continue planning BRT service until a solid light-rail plan, with identified funding, emerges. BRT proponents say BRT is cheaper and routes are easy to change as ridership patterns change. The more expensive light rail system would result in more business investment, leading to higher future tax revenues and more jobs. Developers will not plan houses, apartments and stores along BRT routes. They will when permanent tracks are put down.


http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblog...feature_6.html

There's also a post about the "Texas Triangle" high-speed rail. Seems the business blog is a better place to go for rail info than the actual transportation blog.
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  #129  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 2:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmanshirt View Post
Here's one more link. David Hendricks of the E-N business blog "clocking in" answers a question about light rail.



County Judge Nelson Wolff has talked about reviving light rail since before the May election extending the visitor tax. What is not clear is where the money would come from.

Remember, we all went through this in 2000. Voters, by a 70-30 margin, turned down a $1.5 billion light rail plan that would have been funded by a half-cent sales tax. That is why VIA Metropolitan Transit eventually started planning a Bus Rapid Transit that would provide similar service, only on rubber tires, starting with the Fredericksburg Road corridor.

The prudent course for VIA is to continue planning BRT service until a solid light-rail plan, with identified funding, emerges. BRT proponents say BRT is cheaper and routes are easy to change as ridership patterns change. The more expensive light rail system would result in more business investment, leading to higher future tax revenues and more jobs. Developers will not plan houses, apartments and stores along BRT routes. They will when permanent tracks are put down.


http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblog...feature_6.html

There's also a post about the "Texas Triangle" high-speed rail. Seems the business blog is a better place to go for rail info than the actual transportation blog.
i wonder who asked that question...

i was hoping he would give us a little insight or insider info other than the history we already knew...
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  #130  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 2:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam View Post
Well that's good that a local council person is taking a interest in light rail.

I'll definitely link to his site.

Is anyone good with Mambo?
I think I still have some skills with Mambo . I worked up something, but didn't renew my server, so it's gone. I still have some files on my PC.
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  #131  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 3:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sakyle04 View Post
i wonder who asked that question...

i was hoping he would give us a little insight or insider info other than the history we already knew...
Eh, I don't really expect much out of a business-related blog, and I've come not to expect much from Pat Driscoll's "MoveIt!" blog either.

Apparently, Wolff is either keeping things very close to the chest on LRT plans, or (more likely) there just isn't much to tell at this point. Most SAians are either focused on toll roads right now or are simply apathetic about the matter.
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  #132  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 3:57 AM
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Wolff is definitely keeping things as tight lipped as possible.
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  #133  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 1:49 PM
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I guess I've just gotten used to every single detail of every LRT proposal that comes out here in KC (one finally got approved - a 14 mile starter line - and is being put on the Nov ballot) that the silence about LRT plans in SA is deafening. Granted, I know different cities handle things differently, and the fact that the military is potentially involved in this may factor in to keeping a lid on it, but my gut feeling tells me there just isn't much going around right now aside from some basic conceptual ideas.

That having been said, the fact that the E-N waited until a week after WOAI first reported on talks between Wolff, Union Pacific, and the military to say something about it, and then did so in an obscure blog entry not related to transportation is pretty pathetic to me
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  #134  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 3:46 PM
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In South and Central Texas' media, writing ANY unbiased story about ANY rail proposal that doesn't have clear opposition is tantamount to treason.

Ask M1EK and the austinites
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  #135  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 5:00 PM
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Originally Posted by alexjon View Post
In South and Central Texas' media, writing ANY unbiased story about ANY rail proposal that doesn't have clear opposition is tantamount to treason.

Ask M1EK and the austinites
So we need to find somebody to be LRT's Terri Hall, is that what you're saying?
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  #136  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2008, 3:33 PM
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So we need to find somebody to be LRT's Terri Hall, is that what you're saying?
And you'll need a Texan Earl Blumenauer.

http://blumenauer.house.gov/

I love that he has a bike pin AND there's light rail and a pretty bridge in his banner. He's the guy doing all the work on getting the small starts program fixed and is working on pushing transit through to vote repeatedly in the next 6 months
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  #137  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2008, 5:14 PM
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Originally Posted by sakyle04 View Post
i know that threads digress from time to time and it is sometimes beneficial to the overall theme...but is there a way that we can get back to discussing light rail in san antonio here? the commuter rail math is making my head hurt.
Sure, we can. But, is what San Antonio is suggesting light rail, or is it really streetcars and/or trams?

If you want fast mass transit, you have to get the trains off the streets as much as possible. Either following an existing not very busy rail line, a transmission line corridor, or some other existing corridor. Take for example Dart's Blue Line. From Rowlett to Mockingbird Station, it follows a mostly abandoned rail line, although daily freight service is available to industries in Garland by the third parallel freight DNGO track. From Mockingbird Station to Pearl St. Station, the Blue Line is in the tunnel under North Central Expressway. From Pearl St. Station to the West End Station the Blue Line runs on city streets, but all other vehicle traffic removed except crossing traffic. From Union Station to 8th St Station, again in a rail line corridor on exclusive Dart tracks. From 8th St Station to Illinois St Station, the Blue Line follows under a transmission line corridor. From Illinios St Station to Ledbetter Station, the Blue Line travels down the center median of Lancaster Rd.
Of the total 29 miles of the Blue Line, less than 4 miles travel down city streets. In the tunnel under North Central and on the bridge over the Trinity River, the trains reach the top speed of 65 mph, which they could never do on city streets. That makes them fast.

If you're going to build your transit line entirely in city streets, San Antonio would do much better buying streetcars, like the Skoda, with a top speed of just 45 mph. As that is as fast as they will need to go.

It's easy to sit in the lounge chair and be second string quarterbacks, but it's been my experience that the transit planners check which bus routes that have the greatest ridership, and those are the routes that are chosen for streetcars. So, I usually completely agree with them on where the streetcars should go. It's only when politicians start messing with the transit planners when I start to worry.

Streetcars should basically replace buses on very busy routes, where the more efficent and less polluting streetcars reduce traffic congestion cause by so many buses on the route. If the bus route isn't very busy, it's better to continue using buses. If your buses on the route are bunching up, two arriving within minutes, and the next one half an hour later, it's time to use a streetcar to get the operating schedule fixed.
Example, a Skoda streetcar.

Fast mass transit should be used near busy intercity developments, connecting a downtown district to an airport, between dense developments in the suburbs and cities together. Examples, Light rail, DMUs, and EMU non-compliant FRA trains

Commuter rail or Regional rail should be used to connect residential suburbs to downtown, or between two adjacent cities. For example, between Dallas and Ft. Worth, Austin and San Antonio, Houston and Galveston. Example, TRE, UTA Frontrunner, NM's Railrunner, and ASA proposed routes.
Large multiple deck cars are best with less frequent service with high ridership, small single deck cars with less ridership, or more frequent service, like the CapMetro DMU.

Last edited by electricron; Aug 15, 2008 at 5:38 PM.
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  #138  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2008, 12:49 AM
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OK. BACK TO THE ACTUAL TOPIC

LIGHT RAIL PROPOSED FOR SAN ANTONIO (again)


http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/2586/lrlpt0.png

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...882980e89e9a9f

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  #139  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2008, 3:32 AM
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For anymore posts about commuter rail in either Austin or San Antonio, please post in the thread linked below.

Austin & San Antonio: - Moving freight line for commuter rail could cost up to $2.4B
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=155157&page=5
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  #140  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 4:39 PM
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(Thanks Kevin.)

I wonder...

1) will we ever hear more about Wolff's plan if it involves the gov't - or will that keep the lid on things?

2) has there ever been a successful BRT to LRT conversion of a line?

3) What is the electrical carrying load of a frieght train through a rural area with a 120 foot right-of-way if a european swallow lands on the train as it is passing an unladen ASA commuter train? (ahhh - only joking - please don't even mention commuter rail here!!!)
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