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  #1701  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2009, 5:15 PM
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sirkingwilliam sirkingwilliam is offline
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As for grocery stores, one of my commercial business goals (with other investors) is to purchase the Handy Andy grocery store company and bring it back to its former glory as the innovator in San Antonio's grocery market.

We even have a rough draft of a prototype logo.

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  #1702  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2009, 7:17 PM
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Washington Ave has become the heart of the revival of residential in downtown St. Louis. It is the old 'Garment District' that consists of buildings from the late 1800's to the early 1900's. Most are large brick and stone buildings. Here is an excerpt from the wikipedia page on the 'Loft District':

Quote:
The Washington Avenue Loft District is a portion of St. Louis, Missouri, located on the northern and western edge of the city's downtown. The neighborhood is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

The District is bounded by Delmar Boulevard to the north, Locust Street to the south, 8th Street on the east, 18th Street on the west, and is bisected by Washington Avenue in the center.

Most of the buildings in the area were built between 1880 and 1920, as warehouses when the area served as the city's garment district. Most are large multi-story buildings of brick and stone construction. Many have terra cotta accents on their facades. After World War II, the decline in domestic garment production and the preference for single-story industrial space led to many of the buildings being vacant or underused due to functional obsolescence.

The area began to experience some redevelopment in the 1990s. In 1998, the state of Missouri adopted a tax credit for the redevelopment of historic buildings, making large-scale renovation financially feasible. Local and national developers have acquired many buildings along Washington Avenue and in other parts of downtown. The buildings are being redeveloped with loft-style condominiums and apartments.
I really don't know a lot about the older buildings in downtown San Antonio, vacancies and what-not, but the historical tax credits that program that Missouri adopted has done wonders for vacant and underutilized buidings that are registered historic places. In the late 1980's downtown St. Louis became soley a CBD. Over the past 10-years downtown has transfored dramatically and now has a strong 24-hour population. It would be nice to see San Antonio and developers attract and take on more progressive and urban development.

To attract a grocer, or for grocer to build downtown, there is going to have to be a decent population to support it within a half mile. Right now there is no such area downtown. I hope some time in the not so distant future there will. It will make San Antonio that much better.

Here are some photos pirated off flikr of the Washington Ave 'Loft District':

photo by: mom on flickr


photo by: urbanreviewstl.com on flickr


photo by: urbanreviewstl.com on flickr


photo by: urbanreviewstl.com on flickr


photo by: Payton Chung on flickr


Here are some pics of City Grocer's in the Loft District:


photo by: Kopper on flickr


photo by: bill streeter on flickr
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  #1703  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2009, 7:19 PM
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sirkingwilliam sirkingwilliam is offline
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Reminds me somewhat of Houston Street.
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  #1704  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2009, 7:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexjon View Post
Tourists, workers, students, residents-- there's more than enough activity downtown to sustain a mini-supermarket. Until one is proposed, people generally poo-poo the idea as "well, it's a good idea but not necessary".

I buy a lot of things from the IGA Kress Supermarket downtown since it's on my way home. It's in the middle of downtown and close to my walking route. Good selection, good food.
If the smaller markets continue to do well, then it will be noticed. Then there could be interest for such a place.

I would imagine everything close to the river is probably pretty pricey, so I would guess that would tend to push it outwards anyway. And, all the places I mentioned are where the residences are going up (except for the east side).
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  #1705  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2009, 8:35 PM
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We shouldn't be comparing Downtown Seattle's situation to SA's. The cities are nothing alike.

Downtown Seattle has a daytime population of over 200,000 and somewhere between 25,000-30,000 of those being residents. San Antonio's daytime population doesn't even get close to 100,000 with somewhere between 2,000-5,000 of them being residents (maybe, depending on the boundary used).

Seattle definately needed a downtown grocer, but they only got one this past summer. The way the real estate and apartment market is now, it would not be feasible as kornbread has allready posted.
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  #1706  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2009, 9:57 PM
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There shouldn't be a threshhold, grocery stores are a valued commodity. Downtown workers in SA could easily keep a small to medium sized supermarket humming. It's also incentive to other developers because it creates a better sense of community, something lacking in downtown SA. It's like foreign countries jammed in next to eachother down there as you go from store to store.

Tourists, too, can certainly use a supermarket.

Saying there's a line that must be crossed in population to justify a supermarket is silly.
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  #1707  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2009, 10:54 PM
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The prime locations for a downtown grocer most likely would not be accessible to tourists. Unless in the next few years a lot of condos and apartments go up on Houston St.

There definately is a threshold for a grocer to come in and make money. A grocery store is a business not a public service.

Prices at downtown grocers are also high. That is the price you pay for living urban, but commuters from the burbs would most likely stop by HEB on there way home instead of pay higher prices.

There are already a few Markets downtown that tourists and others can use. The one on Houston (can't remember the name) looked nice, but small.

Believe me if HEB thought that a downtown grocer would be profitable that would have cornered that market by now too.
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  #1708  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2009, 11:32 PM
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HEB deliberately creates large-footprint stores in most places, it keeps costs down. They aren't interested in profitability so much as they are in market share.

Downtown workers, dwellers, tourists and alike could easily prop up a grocery store in downtown San Antonio. There are plenty of neighborhoods around downtown that need a large scale grocery, aren't there? And with the proposed presence of both students and more apartment/condo-dwellers, I can't see why growing with the market is so detestable that we have to wait until there's a critical mass.

Trust me, a supermarket would work in downtown San Antonio.
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  #1709  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2009, 6:04 AM
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Don't forget about the embassy suites hotel. Each of those units will probably have families or large parties. I am not sure but I assume the suites would have small kitchens therefore a need for a nearby grocery store.

under construction
147 condos = Alteza
146 condos + 6 townhomes = Vidorra I
246 Apartments = Vistana
66 lofts = St Benedict
31+ lofts = Steel House
84 lofts = Judson's Candy Factory
190 units = Lone Star Brewery

Proposed development
280 apartments = ? durango ? next to hemisphere park ?
300 apartments = broadway lofts
146 condos + 6 townhomes = Vidorra II
200 apartments = Avenue A (Pearl Brewery)

Total Units = 1,848 ........."so far"

That's only the residential development. Maybe someone else could throw in the hotel part.

The demand for a new grocery store may not be here now, but it will be soon!!
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  #1710  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2009, 6:05 AM
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I practically grew up on Alamo Plaza, trust me, even before those units go online, a supermarket would go far.
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  #1711  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2009, 6:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam View Post
As for grocery stores, one of my commercial business goals (with other investors) is to purchase the Handy Andy grocery store company and bring it back to its former glory as the innovator in San Antonio's grocery market.

We even have a rough draft of a prototype logo.


cxxxzz,
hmmmmm,
ehemm. sorry

what other details do you have to share with us about your idea, sirkingw?
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  #1712  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2009, 8:21 AM
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sirkingwilliam sirkingwilliam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxus View Post
cxxxzz,
hmmmmm,
ehemm. sorry
Huh?

Quote:
what other details do you have to share with us about your idea, sirkingw?
I may have shared too much. lol
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  #1713  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2009, 2:56 AM
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Some new pics of some downtown construction projects (taken by me, of course, on 12/30):

Courtyard by Marriott:










Vistana:










Vidorra:


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  #1714  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2009, 4:38 AM
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Wow what a update! Things are looking great for downtown SA!
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  #1715  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2009, 4:24 AM
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Does anyone have any info on the Arts & Entertainment District?
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  #1716  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2009, 5:17 AM
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I really do love the Vistana, it looks so amazing. Awesome shots boquillas.
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  #1717  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2009, 5:53 AM
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sirkingwilliam sirkingwilliam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by METALMiKE View Post
Does anyone have any info on the Arts & Entertainment District?
In what way?

It was approved a few weeks back.
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  #1718  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2009, 2:13 PM
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Here is the link, I don't think any specifics have been released yet.
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  #1719  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2009, 2:55 PM
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http://www.sanantonio.gov/historic/docs/HDRC_AGENDA.pdf pg 186

The city is getting permission tomorrow to demolish the City Hall Annex on Dolorosa.

There are big plans for the site. And this is the first step in that process.
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  #1720  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2009, 3:35 PM
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Good catch, I swear I looked at it yesterday and all I caught was the old River Inn (try 2) and the Brack parking garage signs.
Thanks.
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Last edited by miaht82; Jan 6, 2009 at 6:29 PM.
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