HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Manitoba & Saskatchewan


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #4461  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 5:04 PM
davequanbury davequanbury is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
What a great read. Love the honesty and lack of hyperbole.
I agree.

I would just add that the obsession with panhandling appears to be related to "reputation" more so than "safety". I clicked on the link to the actual safety report from the cbc article. I did a search of the document for the word panhandling, and was surprised to find the number of times the issue was framed as "bad for tourism".

I know perception is important, and a tough ship to turn around once it sets sail, so what if we looked at the panhandlers as part of the downtown culture?

I think it's safe to say that panhandlers are not the perpetrators of much crime, they do how ever intimidate people and that's normal. So why not embrace them? Sounds a little whacky, I know, but maybe there is a way to announce to the world "we have panhandlers, they don't bite"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4462  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 5:06 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
In the 90s there was always talk about panhandlers. It was a staple of the Peter Warren Action Line and the like. But nowadays the idea of getting worked up by a guy holding out a cup asking for change seems almost quaint. Particularly when it's all over town now... even the outer suburbs have guys sitting at traffic lights asking for change.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4463  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 5:31 PM
OTA in Winnipeg's Avatar
OTA in Winnipeg OTA in Winnipeg is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Silver Heights
Posts: 1,614
The problem with panhandlers is it's all about addiction. If you think they're doing that to feed themselves, you are mistaken. There's a multitude of soup kitchens in this city. That's where they eat. Giving them money is just prolonging their addiction.
Not confronting this issue also creates an odd kind of entitlement with some that they can do whatever the hell they want, whenever they want. A hallmark of meth users behaviour which we all witnessed big time this past summer. Especially if you live along the rivers.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4464  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 6:55 PM
EdwardTH EdwardTH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
In the 90s there was always talk about panhandlers. It was a staple of the Peter Warren Action Line and the like. But nowadays the idea of getting worked up by a guy holding out a cup asking for change seems almost quaint. Particularly when it's all over town now... even the outer suburbs have guys sitting at traffic lights asking for change.
If not panhandling then what kinds of issues is your wife mentioning when she says it's gotten so bad then? Like is she being assaulted walking down the street?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4465  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 7:08 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardTH View Post
If not panhandling then what kinds of issues is your wife mentioning when she says it's gotten so bad then? Like is she being assaulted walking down the street?
She has thankfully not been assaulted, but there have been a couple of dicey situations - I'm not talking about seeing some weirdo on the street a block away, but unwanted, uncomfortable face-to-face interactions.

But that said, a young female colleague of mine was punched in the face - completely unprovoked - on the street just outside our workplace.

Talk to any woman who spends time downtown and you'll hear the stories.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4466  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 7:54 PM
EdwardTH EdwardTH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Talk to any woman who spends time downtown and you'll hear the stories.
Well I'm married to one who's worked downtown for about a decade and haven't heard anything quite like that, however I get your point. Talk to any woman period and you'll hear said stories. I'm sure she's witnessed some crazy and scary stuff but still, doesn't offer any tangible proof that it's worse now than it was 20 years ago. This notion that it's somehow worse than ever seems to be entirely subjective and based purely on perception and recency bias.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4467  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 7:57 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardTH View Post
Well I'm married to one who's worked downtown for about a decade and haven't heard anything quite like that, however I get your point. Talk to any woman period and you'll hear said stories. I'm sure she's witnessed some crazy and scary stuff but still, doesn't offer any tangible proof that it's worse now than it was 20 years ago. This notion that it's somehow worse than ever seems to be entirely subjective and based purely on perception and recency bias.
I sort of expected that you would try to debunk what I said somehow and that's fine. But that won't change the fact that downtown is considered to be an uncomfortable place for a lot of women and they tend to minimize the amount of time they spend there as a result, especially after working hours. Quite a number of female coworkers and friends have said as much to me. They don't owe anyone an explanation with charts and statistics backing up their intuition... how they feel is how they feel and good luck trying to convince them otherwise IMO.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4468  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 8:33 PM
wardlow's Avatar
wardlow wardlow is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardTH View Post
Well I'm married to one who's worked downtown for about a decade and haven't heard anything quite like that, however I get your point. Talk to any woman period and you'll hear said stories. I'm sure she's witnessed some crazy and scary stuff but still, doesn't offer any tangible proof that it's worse now than it was 20 years ago. This notion that it's somehow worse than ever seems to be entirely subjective and based purely on perception and recency bias.
Here are the things that seem to be worse for women in downtown Winnipeg (and yes yes, based on a very small sample size): street harassment from male pedestrians and motorists (spoiler alert always pick-up trucks when it's the latter). A lot of clear cases of serious mental health episodes that seem unpredictable (because they are). Rangey, troubled, troublesome-looking people staring you, walking alongside you, asking you for money.

A downtown area is going to have some of this stuff, but the issue is how pervasive and widespread it seems to have become.

Maybe these things seem like small potatoes to some. But I don't know if any woman needs to justify her safety concerns, or should be expected to bear street harassment and feeling unsafe as a matter of routine. How safe you *feel* in an urban environment matters, not just *how safe you ultimately end up being.*

And like Esquire noted, we can throw around crime statistics and real vs. perceived safety all we like, but a lot of otherwise urban-minded people (eg, women) aren't going to bother going downtown alone, or any more than necessary.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4469  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 8:41 PM
EdwardTH EdwardTH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 458
I don't recall the part where I apparently tried to delegitimize women's safety concerns. Their concerns are perfectly valid. I was talking about the notion that keeps coming up here that it's somehow worse than in the past. News flash: women experienced these same issues in the 90s, even if you weren't woke enough back then to realize it. If you transported back to the 90s you would hear all these same discussions taking place about people feeling unsafe downtown. So I'll ask again - where is the proof that it's worse now than it was then?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4470  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 8:48 PM
EdwardTH EdwardTH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by wardlow View Post
Here are the things that seem to be worse for women in downtown Winnipeg (and yes yes, based on a very small sample size): street harassment from male pedestrians and motorists (spoiler alert always pick-up trucks when it's the latter). A lot of clear cases of serious mental health episodes that seem unpredictable (because they are). Rangey, troubled, troublesome-looking people staring you, walking alongside you, asking you for money.

A downtown area is going to have some of this stuff, but the issue is how pervasive and widespread it seems to have become.

Maybe these things seem like small potatoes to some. But I don't know if any woman needs to justify her safety concerns, or should be expected to bear street harassment and feeling unsafe as a matter of routine. How safe you *feel* in an urban environment matters, not just *how safe you ultimately end up being.*

And like Esquire noted, we can throw around crime statistics and real vs. perceived safety all we like, but a lot of otherwise urban-minded people (eg, women) aren't going to bother going downtown alone, or any more than necessary.
I'm not dismissing their concerns as small potatoes or "debunking" their perception of safety. I'm more concerned with how people are perceiving the trend - that it's supposedly getting worse - when these issues have existed for as long as I can remember. There are more people downtown outside of business hours than I can ever remember. Remember what the exchange used to be like at night back in 2000-ish? It was a complete ghost town.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4471  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 10:51 PM
cheswick's Avatar
cheswick cheswick is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South Kildonan
Posts: 2,756
Few points. I don’t agree that things are getting worse. I’ve been working or changing buses downtown since I started university almost 20 years ago. I personally have never felt a threat and don’t see things as any more unsafe.

Second point. I think women in general probably will feel threatened anywhere in the city if they’re alone and there are strangers around. My wife walks to the bus in the suburbs at 6 am. She said she felt scared by a guy walking behind her who was going to a construction site.
__________________
There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4472  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 11:14 PM
Pinus Pinus is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,409
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Few points. I don’t agree that things are getting worse. I’ve been working or changing buses downtown since I started university almost 20 years ago. I personally have never felt a threat and don’t see things as any more unsafe.

Second point. I think women in general probably will feel threatened anywhere in the city if they’re alone and there are strangers around. My wife walks to the bus in the suburbs at 6 am. She said she felt scared by a guy walking behind her who was going to a construction site.
A big part of the "women being scared all the time" issue is in relation to our ever-increasing PC culture. The modern day feminists, aka feminazis, are pushing the global agenda that women should be fearful of all men because all men are women-beating, misogynistic, rapists; ready to destroy anything female. Society is teaching young girls to be fearful of all men, and teaching young boys to be ashamed of being male, unless you are a feminine male. A prime example of this would be the infamous Gillette commercial. It's apparently not okay for young boys to wrestle or play fight because the behaviour will supposedly lead them to become abusive towards women, all the time.

The PC SJWs are doing serious mental damage to young people's minds. And throw in the whole gender neutral propaganda and it only makes things worse.

I'm so happy I am not a young person in today's day and age.

Last edited by Pinus; Dec 7, 2019 at 2:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4473  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2019, 7:40 PM
Bdog's Avatar
Bdog Bdog is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by wardlow View Post
I really wish Winnipeg could have an honest conversation about this kind of thing. It's possible to meet somewhere in the middle, between the only three positions there seems to be:
1) the unreasonably paranoid suburbanite who will never like downtown until it resembles a Scottsdale lifestyle centre anyway;
2) the woke Marxist pedant who thinks you're perpetuating genocide and colonialism for even talking about this;
3) the downtown booster who doesn't want to talk about anything other than building projects.
100%. I think we can come to some sort of middle ground on a lot of the topics discussed here on this forum, in addition to this one.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4474  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2019, 5:09 PM
DirtWednesday DirtWednesday is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinus View Post
A big part of the "women being scared all the time" issue is in relation to our ever-increasing PC culture. The modern day feminists, aka feminazis, are pushing the global agenda that women should be fearful of all men because all men are women-beating, misogynistic, rapists; ready to destroy anything female. Society is teaching young girls to be fearful of all men, and teaching young boys to be ashamed of being male, unless you are a feminine male. A prime example of this would be the infamous Gillette commercial. It's apparently not okay for young boys to wrestle or play fight because the behaviour will supposedly lead them to become abusive towards women, all the time.

The PC SJWs are doing serious mental damage to young people's minds. And throw in the whole gender neutral propaganda and it only makes things worse.

I'm so happy I am not a young person in today's day and age.
Ok Boomer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4475  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2019, 8:23 PM
Labroco's Avatar
Labroco Labroco is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardTH View Post
Well I'm married to one who's worked downtown for about a decade and haven't heard anything quite like that, however I get your point. Talk to any woman period and you'll hear said stories. I'm sure she's witnessed some crazy and scary stuff but still, doesn't offer any tangible proof that it's worse now than it was 20 years ago. This notion that it's somehow worse than ever seems to be entirely subjective and based purely on perception and recency bias.
I think the nature of addiction has changed. While alcoholism has profound effects on individuals and the community, Meth addiction creates more aggressive and desperate actions in those effected. These traits are more dangerous and aggressive generally than one who may be drunk.

Someone stealing copper from a live electrical panel after breaking into a building is generally not an alcoholic but rather a meth addict.

It’s not the price of copper that is fuelling the theft and vandalism but rather the price of the Meth.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4476  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2019, 11:57 PM
OTA in Winnipeg's Avatar
OTA in Winnipeg OTA in Winnipeg is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Silver Heights
Posts: 1,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labroco View Post
I think the nature of addiction has changed. While alcoholism has profound effects on individuals and the community, Meth addiction creates more aggressive and desperate actions in those effected. These traits are more dangerous and aggressive generally than one who may be drunk.

Someone stealing copper from a live electrical panel after breaking into a building is generally not an alcoholic but rather a meth addict.

It’s not the price of copper that is fuelling the theft and vandalism but rather the price of the Meth.
^^ Meth is cheaper here than pretty much everywhere else. With yesterday's multi million dollar bust it might make a dent in the short term but I doubt it. What distinguishes meth users from other addictions is that they will stay up for days using and eventually, as we all need sleep, psychosis begins to happen. The longer they stay using/staying awake, the longer and worse the psychosis becomes. I'm sure at this point most of you have seen the "bizarreness" around town.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4477  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 12:50 PM
rrskylar's Avatar
rrskylar rrskylar is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WINNIPEG
Posts: 7,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labroco View Post
I think the nature of addiction has changed. While alcoholism has profound effects on individuals and the community, Meth addiction creates more aggressive and desperate actions in those effected. These traits are more dangerous and aggressive generally than one who may be drunk.

Someone stealing copper from a live electrical panel after breaking into a building is generally not an alcoholic but rather a meth addict.

It’s not the price of copper that is fuelling the theft and vandalism but rather the price of the Meth.
Meth is cheap, that’s why it’s a good drug for the lazy deadbeats of society to obtain, break a few car windows to get the $6-7 for your fix that lasts 12 hours!

The myth that all crime is a product of meth is also bullshit, we have a large entitled group here that seem to feel that they can do whatever they want, steal whatever they want and should never be held accountable. One national retailer recently said Manitoba (Winnipeg) accounts for 40% of all their losses (Manitoba has 4% of Canada’s population), now that’s something to be proud of!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4478  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2019, 8:35 PM
Pinus Pinus is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,409
Looks like Winnipeg isn't the only city having issues with crime. Surprise surprise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead2 View Post
Like Coldrsx says Edmonton has its problems. While it's nice to see a boom in skyscraper real estate construction downtown and an investment in transit projects the city feels lawless and scary at times which is why I spend at least half my time outside of town these days.

In my time in Edmonton I've been pepper sprayed (LRT on Canada Day), swung at with a machete (on the #8 bus in Montrose), been threatened with a blood soaked baseball bat, survived a drive-by targeting the drug dealer next door and had my live threatened multiple times.

City Hall is overrun by inept bureaucrats that will order half a billion dollars in studies with little oversight and nobody blinks an eye. Every major transit project has been a virtual disaster in the planning and again nobody blinks an eye. There's just a resigned whatever-ness to life here.

And of course the elephant in the room is what Edmonton and Alberta needs to do over the next 20 years to divest itself from being an almost entirely Petro-based economy but that's for another thread...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4479  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2019, 9:05 PM
Winnipegger Winnipegger is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinus View Post
Looks like Winnipeg isn't the only city having issues with crime. Surprise surprise.
Only immature people and people who love to take every opportunity to bash Winnipeg fail to recognize that most cities in the world struggle with crime and violence; some like to pretend that crime and homicide are purely a "crummy old Winnipeg" thing mostly due to them only ever reading the Winnipeg Sun or Free Press, and never venturing to read the local media from other Canadian cities.

The problem is that issues in poverty and gang violence result in an extra 20 or so homicides every year above and beyond what a City similar in size should expect in Canada, which tends to make national headlines quarterly it seems. This contributes to the already overwhelming "woe is Winnipeg, nothing good ever happens here, life is terrible but I don't ever want to move" mentality.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4480  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2019, 10:30 PM
pspeid's Avatar
pspeid pspeid is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipegger View Post
Only immature people and people who love to take every opportunity to bash Winnipeg fail to recognize that most cities in the world struggle with crime and violence; some like to pretend that crime and homicide are purely a "crummy old Winnipeg" thing mostly due to them only ever reading the Winnipeg Sun or Free Press, and never venturing to read the local media from other Canadian cities.

The problem is that issues in poverty and gang violence result in an extra 20 or so homicides every year above and beyond what a City similar in size should expect in Canada, which tends to make national headlines quarterly it seems. This contributes to the already overwhelming "woe is Winnipeg, nothing good ever happens here, life is terrible but I don't ever want to move" mentality.
EXACTLY!
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Manitoba & Saskatchewan
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:25 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.