CHICAGO | Waterview Tower | 1,047' Official / 1,035' Roof | 89 FLOORS |NEVER BUILT

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

Oh yeah. . . and I saw Sidewalk Joe hanging out at Silver Tower this afternoon. . . wonder how long it will be before he'll be camped out at the Spire.[/gibberish]

He's already been over here. When I talked to a CASE Foundation worker, they said he was here the other day.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

1.5 year delay? honestly, where are you guys getting this stuff? i guess when you get impatient it's best to just make shit up, huh?

way back in november of last year, victor asked someone on the constrcution team when they expected to get above ground. the answer was june. well, here it is early july and they're poking above the ground. the project is maybe a few weeks behind schedule max.

it was an extremely complicated underground construction on an extremely tiny piece of land with almost no space for staging. rome wasn't built in a day.

Actually that person said May...

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by BVictor1

It won't be catching Trump.

Overall footprint: ~23,000sf
Core footprint: ~4,100sf

Structure won't be to Upper Wacker until about May 07

See. Steely, this confirms the project is probably around 2-3 months behind schedule (which I estimated a couple weeks ago). And it is actually quite prudent to continue to question this project and developer, because until full construction financing is arranged, the project is not on sound financial footing. This is a great project and I hope it does not run into deep troubles. But that does not mean we should give the developers a pass when it comes to their troubles and just look the other way. Rome was also not built on blind faith...

[Nowhereman1280]

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

Oh yeah. . . and I saw Sidewalk Joe hanging out at Silver Tower this afternoon. . . wonder how long it will be before he'll be camped out at the Spire.[/gibberish]

Question, Who is sidewalk Joe? I've never heard this guy mentioned before... Is he some guy who watches stuff get built or something?

[rbowk]

it isent rising very fast

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

See. Steely, this confirms the project is probably around 2-3 months behind schedule (which I estimated a couple weeks ago). And it is actually quite prudent to continue to question this project and developer, because until full construction financing is arranged, the project is not on sound financial footing. This is a great project and I hope it does not run into deep troubles. But that does not mean we should give the developers a pass when it comes to their troubles and just look the other way. Rome was also not built on blind faith...

I also mentioned somewhere on this forum that I was told June, so there...

Just because they haven't informed us of there financing, doesn't mean they don't have it.

You guys are beginning to sound like D. Roeder and the rest of the media in criticising financing on the Spire.

Found my previous post from September 13, 2006:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=41986&page=72

That's exactly what it's for.

I've asked a few questions of my contact, and this it what I've found out. Remember this information is subject to change...


I was wondering how far down the excavation of the area outside the core would be going down? Generally, 8' above the lowest point in the core excavation (b/c there is no mat around the perimeter)

I was also wondering when do you believe the tower crane will be erected? As soon as the mat is poured. We plan on pouring in ~3 weeks.

Finally, I asked this question before, but need a but of clarification. About when will the building be up to Wacker Drive and start to rise? The core should be up to grade around the end of November. The perimeter should be up to Wacker around June 07.

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Question, Who is sidewalk Joe? I've never heard this guy mentioned before... Is he some guy who watches stuff get built or something?

His hobby is knowing about caissons and foundations. He was never in the industry, but he enjoys the process. I've learned more from him over the past few years about the process, then I did in school. He's been mentioned in past Trump threads.

[Adam186]

I don't know if this will put the financing issue to rest or not, but when I was in there sales center last month I made a special point to ask about the financing. They said they've invested a lot of their own money into this project and that financing is secured, but not official.

Working in the condo development industry, it's as good as done and they are probably already receiving funds from this unofficial source. I've seen it a million times.

[SolarWind]

July 6, 2007

[honte]

Originally Posted by Adam186

I don't know if this will put the financing issue to rest or not, but when I was in there sales center last month I made a special point to ask about the financing. They said they've invested a lot of their own money into this project and that financing is secured, but not official.

Working in the condo development industry, it's as good as done and they are probably already receiving funds from this unofficial source. I've seen it a million times.

Thanks, Adam. So, since you're familiar with this kind of financing arrangement, what would be the utility in waiting for a later date to announce the lender and the secure the package? Does the main lender have certain obligations to its sub-lenders that must be met prior to closing? Or maybe is TENG just floating it as long as they can, to avoid paying high mezzanine rates?

[Adam186]

Originally Posted by honte

Thanks, Adam. So, since you're familiar with this kind of financing arrangement, what would be the utility in waiting for a later date to announce the lender and the secure the package? Does the main lender have certain obligations to its sub-lenders that must be met prior to closing? Or maybe is TENG just floating it as long as they can, to avoid paying high mezzanine rates?

Well, I'm not entirely familiar with this type of financing. I work with developers (I'm a condo specialist for a major brokerage in Omaha) selling their units, so I work in sales centers a lot.

From what I here from some of the developers is that they secure financing earlier than it's made public and announce it when sales are closer to the lenders expectations. There are some reasons that I think they may do this:

1) The land (and the building) will be worth more, even if the project isn't finished

2) There's a secret world of highly influential people that can get anything done behind the scenes

3) In this instance, Shangri-La may have more of a stake in this project than what we're being eluded to believe

As far as sub-lender and the other details, I'm not really sure about. Ask me a gain a year or so. I'm finishing up my Real Estate and Land Use Economics degree.

[djvandrake]

Originally Posted by SolarWind

July 6, 2007

In a few more days when this level is poured, it'll be entirely above upper wacker and then it's up-up-up and away. Very hard not to get excited about this building and the impact it'll have on the river corridor.

[LoyolaBeachView]

Originally Posted by djvandrake

In a few more days when this level is poured, it'll be entirely above upper wacker and then it's up-up-up and away.

Uh, no it's not.

[Adam186]

That big hole on the left of the picture goes all the way to the lowest level. Are they leaving this open to allow access to Lower Wacker(?)? If so, the staging area will be in the basement, which doesn't allow for too much light or room. What a logistical nightmare, I can see how this is taking so long to get out of the hole. I just can't wait till they get to the setback on the 29th floor so they can fly up faster into the sky.

[djvandrake]

Originally Posted by LoyolaBeachView

Uh, no it's not.

???? Where do you think this picture was taken from? I stood at that spot 8 days ago and they are close to reaching level with upper Wacker drive.

[LoyolaBeachView]

Originally Posted by djvandrake

???? Where do you think this picture was taken from? I stood at that spot 8 days ago and they are close to reaching level with upper Wacker drive.

I was referring to the "up up and away" part.

[Chicago3rd]

I'm not an engineer but getting tired of this Hines/Waterview corralations.

Isn't the Waterview taller?
Doesn't the Waterview have a lot smaller foot print?
Aren't residential buildings and commerical buildings different types of buildings?
Do residential apartments alot for more weight per square foot?
Wouldn't this possibly mean that the Waterview footing is just a tad more complicated than the Hines?
Aren't residential and commmerical buildings funded differently?

Except for the facts that they are rectangle, buildings, on the river, in Chicago they seem to have enough differences to not constantly be compared.

[Nowhereman1280]

^^^ actually even less related than that... Waterview is only a rectangle building until the 23rd floor or so then it turns into a strange pentagon... So they really only share two things in common, being a building and being on the Chicago river...

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know why they have not installed a concrete pump from the core? I had expected they would for this project by now.....


Just walked by the site - painfully slow progress as usual. I think the Spire might give Waterview a run for its money as far as topping out first!

There is now a concrete pump visible on top of the core. I took this at about 6:15pm

[LoyolaBeachView]

Originally Posted by BVictor1

There is now a concrete pump visible on top of the core. I took this at about 6:15pm

Excellent. I may begin to take this project seriously again.