Does Western Alienation exist, and how can we fix it?

[Rollerstud98]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Im guessing if oil was still $100 a barrel these businesses wouldnt be closing.
Back when there were just as many pipelines as today Alberta was killin' it.

Killing it because of expansion, if still that high we would still have the issues of getting it to market. Therefore investment would be dropping and companies closing up shop.

[kel]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The most successful politicians are frequently the pragmatic ones. If you are too much of an ideologue, you just upset people and become divisive.

Donald Trump and Boris Johnson are most definitely not truly successful politicians. Trudeau is a touch too ideological the other way. He could stand to be a little more accommodating to non progressive views. If he were, the west might not be so alienated.

Very well said.
You can see the more the progressive left pushes it’s agenda the more the right will push there agenda and vice versa. For a long time in Canada you had two parties that where almost identical just left of Center, now it seems like the liberals are moving further left well the conservatives are maintaining a Center Center/right stance creating stronger divisions among people who actually believe in 90% of the same policies.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

Killing it because of expansion, if still that high we would still have the issues of getting it to market. Therefore investment would be dropping and companies closing up shop.

Getting more to market than back then you mean? Because there aren't any less pipelines today as back in the hey days afaik.

[Rollerstud98]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Getting more to market than back then you mean? Because there aren't any less pipelines today as back in the hey days afaik.

They wouldn’t be getting any more to market.

[headhorse]

Alberta is moving more oil than ever before

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Getting more to market than back then you mean? Because there aren't any less pipelines today as back in the hey days afaik.

Need to get the product to more than one market. When pretty well your only customer starts producing more oil than any other nation it tends to lower the value of your product. If we could ship overseas we'd be getting better prices--a lot better at times.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Need to get the product to more than one market. When pretty well your only customer starts producing more oil than any other nation it tends to lower the value of your product. If we could ship overseas we'd be getting better prices--a lot better at times.

Ah k this helps a bit cheers.

Dumb question. Are you able to ship it overseas out of Texas?

[Rollerstud98]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Ah k this helps a bit cheers.

Dumb question. Are you able to ship it overseas out of Texas?

Not a dumb question but that isn’t the best route to where the biggest market it.

[Rollerstud98]

Originally Posted by headhorse

Alberta is moving more oil than ever before

By rail, which is more expensive driving down the price for our product to make it profitable to ship. If we could triple our volume by pipe line that would be a cheaper method of transport therefore allowing us to get a better price per barrel on more barrels. No more curtailment and modest growth occurring again.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by misher

Alberta’s economy is more than oil there are a lot of businesses leaving or shutting down and this is hard data not opinion. Despite the cuts on corporate taxes businesses are leaving, likely because tax cuts don’t matter when your not even making a profit.

Wah boo hoo. Lots of provinces have it worse. Should the entire country screech to a hault because Alberta is on hard times? No one has ever done that for my province, so why should Alberta get special treatment?

[DLLB]

Originally Posted by Pinus

Wah boo hoo. Lots of provinces have it worse. Should the entire country screech to a hault because Alberta is on hard times? No one has ever done that for my province, so why should Alberta get special treatment?

Well, we are all helping Quebec
PER Capital transfers (19/20) for ALL FEDERAL FUNDS
QC - $3,013 based on $25,531B
The avg for 4 western provinces is $1,658 based on $19,782B
The avg for 3 prairie provinces is $1,793 based on $12,367B
Yup, just more good ole Canadian Equality

[DLLB]

Originally Posted by Pinus

Wah boo hoo. Lots of provinces have it worse. Should the entire country screech to a hault because Alberta is on hard times? No one has ever done that for my province, so why should Alberta get special treatment?

OK, let the hate start for presenting facts
Since 1961 net fiscal transfer out of AB is $611B
Since 2010 Ottawa has taken avg of over $20B/yr from AB
QC gets 2/3 of EQ payments
Up to 2018, who received what! Does not include $13B in 2019/20
QC....$221,000,000,000 .... 51.40%
AB............$92,000,000 ......0.02%

[lio45]

Originally Posted by DLLB

OK, let the hate start for presenting facts
Since 1961 net fiscal transfer out of AB is $611B
Since 2010 Ottawa has taken avg of over $20B/yr from AB
QC gets 2/3 of EQ payments
Up to 2018, who received what! Does not include $13B in 2019/20
QC....$221,000,000,000 .... 51.40%
AB............$92,000,000 ......0.02%

Weird way to look at it though, since Quebec is a heavyweight in the country in comparison to most provinces. (Per capita, which is a more correct way to look at it, Quebec is midpack.) And this phenomenon was even more true in the early years of equalization.

With your logic, you'd be complaining that the Greater Prague area is gobbling up most of the Federal Czech spending of the country's taxpayers' money, the leeches.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by misher

Alberta’s economy is more than oil there are a lot of businesses leaving or shutting down and this is hard data not opinion. Despite the cuts on corporate taxes businesses are leaving, likely because tax cuts don’t matter when your not even making a profit.

For sure. Alberta has the most expensive oil in the world. Global prices are low and its biggest customer has suddenly become flush with cheaper oil and isn't as interested. Of course there is going to be a decline from the hey day. The province is still extremely wealthy. It still has a 20% higher average wage than the next wealthiest province. It still has by far the lowest poverty rates of any province. It still doesn’t even have a sales tax.

So, yeah. It’s not the upside of the curve anymore. The market is contracting to suit. Even so, unemployment is only barely a point over the national average and the economy is projected to grow above 3% this year.

The world is changing. It is time to look at transition, not lament that the past is likely never coming back. Even after the tidewater pipeline that Harper should have built finally opens.

I feel for those hurt. It’s just difficult to hear how hard done by Alberta is. Like nobody else has issues. I would trade provincial economies in a heartbeat.

[vid]

Originally Posted by trueviking

For sure. Alberta has the most expensive oil in the world. Global prices are low and its biggest customer has suddenly become flush with cheaper oil and isn't as interested. Of course there is going to be a decline from the hey day. The province is still extremely wealthy. It still has a 20% higher average wage than the next wealthiest province. It still has by far the lowest poverty rates of any province. It still doesn’t even have a sales tax.

So, yeah. It’s not the upside of the curve anymore. The market is contracting to suit. Even so, unemployment is only barely a point over the national average and the economy is projected to grow above 3% this year.

The world is changing. It is time to look at transition, not lament that the past is likely never coming back. Even after the tidewater pipeline that Harper should have built finally opens.

I feel for those hurt. It’s just difficult to hear how hard done by Alberta is. Like nobody else has issues. I would trade provincial economies in a heartbeat.

This.

Sincerely, a city that actually knows what hard times is.

In the words of Winnipeg's favourite son, "baby, you just ain't seen n-n-n-nothing yet—You ain't been around!"

[vid]

When 75% of your industrial land is suddenly vacant and subject to environmental reclamation and the population is back down to where it was in 1970, then you can complain to me how bad it is.

[Rollerstud98]

Originally Posted by vid

This.

Sincerely, a city that actually knows what hard times is.

In the words of Winnipeg's favourite son, "baby, you just ain't seen n-n-n-nothing yet—You ain't been around!"

What do you mean “this”? They have no proof of anything they just posted, just pulled numbers out of the air and you’re agreeing with them?

[vid]

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

What do you mean “this”? They have no proof of anything they just posted, just pulled numbers out of the air and you’re agreeing with them?

Whoa whoa whoa, wait.

Trueviking, are you using gender neutral pronouns now?

[misher]

Originally Posted by DLLB

Well, we are all helping Quebec
PER Capital transfers (19/20) for ALL FEDERAL FUNDS
QC - $3,013 based on $25,531B
The avg for 4 western provinces is $1,658 based on $19,782B
The avg for 3 prairie provinces is $1,793 based on $12,367B
Yup, just more good ole Canadian Equality

Not to mention we’d get Quebec companies off jail time to keep jobs but won’t do shit for Western provinces companies.

[jawagord]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Ah k this helps a bit cheers.

Dumb question. Are you able to ship it overseas out of Texas?

Yes, but unlikely to happen in large quantities as Texas is one of the world’s largest refining hubs and has a high demand for heavy oil to blend with light oil for refinery feedstock. Oil shipments get traded constantly and if a refinery has a need or surplus it can buy or sell oil from wherever it is physically at that time. Texas refineries often pay a premium for heavy oil as it is in short supply there hence the importance attached to the KXL pipeline by Alberta.

With a refining capacity of 18,567 thousand barrels per day in 2017, the US has the biggest oil refining capacity in the world, according to BP Statistical Review of World Energy 2018.  The country is home to one of the world’s biggest oil refineries, Port Arthur Refinery, located in on the Gulf of Mexico at Port Arthur in Texas. Texas accounts for about a quarter of the country’ total refining capacity.

To increase profit margin, refiners usually upgrade low cost crude oils by mixing them with light crudes to obtain blends of higher value. In recent years, this trend is favored by a shifting in the market demand from gasoline toward diesel fuels that makes it more attractive to process crude blends with higher diesel yields. Using in-line blending stations, feedstocks for crude distillation units (CDUs) with the desired properties are obtained by mixing flows of different types of crude oils using the right blending recipe. In large oil refineries, several CDUs are available to process a wide variety of crude oils stored in many dedicated tanks


https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.iecr.8b01008