HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2023, 3:48 PM
moorhosj1 moorhosj1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by galleyfox View Post
There’s a good chance that what this is really about is that the lease expires in 2029, and ISFA might expect the team to actually chip in some money this time around. Otherwise the team is preparing for a sale, and who knows what to expect from a new owner?
I think it is early negotiation to try and get some stadium improvements from ISFA.

If they sell and decide to move, for some reason, there will be a pre-built stadium waiting for the Rays/Brewers/Reds/etc. to move into. Any other relocation will require building a $1+ billion stadium.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2023, 4:17 PM
UrbanDweller98 UrbanDweller98 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 58
If Reinsdorf went with the original Armour Park development, which was way ahead of its time, maybe the team wouldn’t be looking to move venues again after just 30 years

https://afterburnham.com/armour-field/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2023, 4:17 PM
Rizzo Rizzo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 7,285
The existing stadium has good bones in that the sight lines are excellent, great circulation and placement of premier amenities. It’s transit accessible. It’s got direct access to expressways and plenty of space for parking and tailgating. It couldn’t get any easier.

I’ve been in the club levels and they’re dated. What the park needs is basically some cosmetic improvements that shouldn’t come at extraordinary cost.

Don’t underestimate the importance of a transit accessible stadium. Baseball has been challenged by attracting younger generations of fans. You need people who are somewhat interested to be buying tickets and there’s minimal barrier to get there. That could be a spontaneous visit after work and the average young Chicagoan is likely to take transit there.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2023, 4:20 PM
nomarandlee's Avatar
nomarandlee nomarandlee is online now
My Mind Has Left My Body
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Uptempo View Post
I would rather the Sox stay on 35th. The fact that Guaranteed Rate is a incredibly mediocre place to watch baseball and is surrounded by a wasteland of parking is largely Reinsdorf's doing. Not sure whether any new stadium development would be any better. Jerry's motivations have not changed one iota over time, and a new home for the Sox would likely reflect that.

The state might be able to make a few bucks selling the land the park is on to developers. Bridgeport has become a place for Chinatown overflow, and this could be sold as Bridgeport East.

Ford City is a great idea. Always thought that area would be ripe for a rebuild with an Orange Line extension; doubly so if the N-S portion of the Lime Line were to ever get built. Same goes for some that power center garbage on the west side of Cicero in Burbank. The one thing Ford City does not have is easy access from an interstate, which might be a sticking point. It's about 4.5 miles from I-55, but would mean slogging through airport traffic on Cicero.

I'm not sure moving the Sox to Soldier Field would work. Using Google, Guaranteed Rate and Soldier Field are both right around 17-18 acres. But I don't see how a baseball stadium could fit in SF's narrow footprint, unless you wanted to recreate the Dodgers' experience in the LA Coliseum in the 50's.
Using Google Maps I tried to measure the distances, and I think it could be done if you take out the south portion of the west grandstand at Soldier Field. The idea would be to reexpose the west colonnades, and the colonnades themselves would provide a kind of "Green Monster" effect in left field. The home plate's most logical position would seem to be in the southeast corner of the current field.

I think you could also take out the 300 level on the north end which would partially, or perhaps in whole, give a vista out onto the Field Museum and much of the skyline. By taking away these and many of the west side's seats you are likely talking about a 30-35k seat stadium. You would probably want to shoehorn somehow more seats on the south end with another tier. Not sure how easy or practical it would be to do that.


Quote:
Trying to re-jigger the area to fit baseball would likely mean moving things like the Gold Star Families' Memorial. That'd be a tough sell. But, to bring up a sore spot for many, does One Central make any more sense with 81 MLB games a year than with 8 or 9 NFL games?
Why so? Trying to rebuild outside the footprint of the current stadium would be a non-starter. I don't see the need to get anywhere near the Memorial.

Quote:
Bronzeville Lakefront, is around 95 acres, if the truck marshalling yards are counted. The 77 is 62 acres.
The Marshalling yards would be a potential fit. Though give its more narrow configuration I am not sure it the footprint makes sense. I excluded the 78 because now with the new Wells Street and new railroad alignment I don't think there is a potential proper footprint there either.


Quote:
The state still owns the site. So, consider that Illinois' contribution to the stadium effort. The Village of Tinley Park has been fighting with the state just maintain the property. The town has plans to one day use some of the site for parks and convert the rest to residential, but they had similar plans a few years ago and were more than willing to toss those plans in a dumpster when the possibility of a racino came up. They'd likely do it again for the Sox.
I think Tinley Park is just too far removed for even most South Siders. What may make more sense is Naperville. I forget where the land is that Naperville was said to be offering the Bears, but obviously, that same land could be in play for a new Sox park. Lots of discretionary income, perhaps even some retail/residential possibilities, and perhaps some decent transit connections.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2023, 4:29 PM
nomarandlee's Avatar
nomarandlee nomarandlee is online now
My Mind Has Left My Body
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanDweller98 View Post
If Reinsdorf went with the original Armour Park development, which was way ahead of its time, maybe the team wouldn’t be looking to move venues again after just 30 years

https://afterburnham.com/armour-field/
Yep, the dumbest move possible was at least not orienting the current stadium towards the north and instead orienting southeast towards the Robert Taylor Blocks.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2023, 4:37 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is offline
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 10,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
...and instead orienting southeast towards the Robert Taylor Blocks.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

I know they were horrible to live in but I really miss that wall of towers along the Dan Ryan... they had a real presence... a "big city" feel that the view along the Ryan no longer has as much IMO. Even Magikist is gone.
__________________
Everything new is old again

There is no goodness in him, and his power to convince people otherwise is beyond understanding
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2023, 4:48 PM
ithakas's Avatar
ithakas ithakas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 977
Here's my outlandish idea for the situation:

Jordan uses his Hornets windfall to buy the White Sox from Reinsdorf – remember his passion for the sport and his short stint with their AA team (plus he's a shareholder of the Marlins).

The existing stadium remains with a minor facelift – maybe some club level rehabs, perhaps a bit of exterior recladding if possible – the existing Comiskey is functional and well-located. As a sports fan I never understand the obsession with new stadiums, since most of the time outside of your seat is spent flowing through crowds or waiting in lines anyway.

Lot F or Lot L is turned into a multi-level parking garage so the obligatory car storage can be moved aside.

The rest of the parking lots are developed into a mid-rise sports-themed district, with entertainment, retail, housing and maybe some boutique office space.

This is essentially what every stadium district is trying to create anyway, but:

(1) A concentrated area like this could assert Chicago as the sports industry city as Fulton Market has with legacy food brands
(2) Jordan's ownership would bring a lot of cachet and open up possibilities. A few off the top of my head:

-A major Air Jordan flagship store
-Offices of Chicago sports companies like Gatorade, Wilson, Stats, etc.
-Air Jordan/Nike satellite offices
-Top Golf/golf retail
-A Michael Jordan steakhouse
-Sports betting/DraftKings sportsbook

Armour Square Park could be built out a bit with basketball courts and extra facilities so it could be used occasionally for sports events. Perhaps there's room for a plaza with lots of seating within or adjacent to the park.

I think the South Side needs a bustling commercial district between the South Loop and Hyde Park, so geographically it feels like it would be a great fit as well.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2023, 5:30 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
devout Pizzatarian
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 29,829
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
Yep, the dumbest move possible was at least not orienting the current stadium towards the north and instead orienting southeast towards the Robert Taylor Blocks.
I think Reinsdorf's absolute dumbest move was tearing down old comiskey in the first place.

He should've just renovated it and then gone big on developing the land around it.

But as I said before, he was always a man behind his time instead of in front of it

A man of zero vision.





I'm ever so grateful that at least my childhood got to cross paths with old comiskey's twilight years.


source: https://www.horschgallery.com/chicag...-park-panorama
__________________
"Missing middle" housing can be a great middle ground for many middle class families.

Last edited by Steely Dan; Aug 24, 2023 at 5:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2023, 8:26 PM
DalronJ's Avatar
DalronJ DalronJ is offline
Dalron J
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 13
I love this idea ...but would love for it to be the Bulls instead. I'm sure that would be a great buy if Jordan could partner with someone and use his face as the big seller. If they developed the district right, it could push the Fulton Market craze all the way down to UC.
__________________
“Buildings are deeply emotive structures which form our psyche. People think they're just things they maneuver through, but the makeup of a person is influenced by the nature of spaces.” - David Adjaye
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2023, 12:57 AM
munchymunch's Avatar
munchymunch munchymunch is offline
MPLSXCHI
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Omicron Persei 8
Posts: 1,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
Why couldn't the vast fields of parking lots around the stadium support development?
I mean it could but Jerry is a notoriously frugal owner. Pretty sure he is the last owner to offer a super-max in the NBA and one of 2 teams that have yet to offer a 100 million dollar contract in the MLB. He barely invests in his teams. Why would he on the south side?

If anything happens around the stadium it would have to be a new owner, but even then a new owner will probably look at other parts of the city first.
__________________
"I don't want to be interesting. I want to be good." -Ludwig Mies van der Rohe
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2023, 2:12 AM
SnowFire SnowFire is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2023
Posts: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
The existing stadium has good bones in that the sight lines are excellent, great circulation and placement of premier amenities. It’s transit accessible. It’s got direct access to expressways and plenty of space for parking and tailgating. It couldn’t get any easier.

I’ve been in the club levels and they’re dated. What the park needs is basically some cosmetic improvements that shouldn’t come at extraordinary cost.

Don’t underestimate the importance of a transit accessible stadium. Baseball has been challenged by attracting younger generations of fans. You need people who are somewhat interested to be buying tickets and there’s minimal barrier to get there. That could be a spontaneous visit after work and the average young Chicagoan is likely to take transit there.
The red line is mobbed with fans in jerseys on baseball game days.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2023, 3:09 PM
SteelMonkey SteelMonkey is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chicago
Posts: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
I think Reinsdorf's absolute dumbest move was tearing down old comiskey in the first place.

He should've just renovated it and then gone big on developing the land around it.

But as I said before, he was always a man behind his time instead of in front of it

A man of zero vision.





I'm ever so grateful that at least my childhood got to cross paths with old comiskey's twilight years.


source: https://www.horschgallery.com/chicag...-park-panorama

100% truth on Reinsdorf

Those were good days
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2023, 5:17 PM
woodrow woodrow is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by ithakas View Post
Here's my outlandish idea for the situation:

Jordan uses his Hornets windfall to buy the White Sox from Reinsdorf – remember his passion for the sport and his short stint with their AA team (plus he's a shareholder of the Marlins).

The existing stadium remains with a minor facelift – maybe some club level rehabs, perhaps a bit of exterior recladding if possible – the existing Comiskey is functional and well-located. As a sports fan I never understand the obsession with new stadiums, since most of the time outside of your seat is spent flowing through crowds or waiting in lines anyway.

Lot F or Lot L is turned into a multi-level parking garage so the obligatory car storage can be moved aside.

The rest of the parking lots are developed into a mid-rise sports-themed district, with entertainment, retail, housing and maybe some boutique office space.

This is essentially what every stadium district is trying to create anyway, but:

(1) A concentrated area like this could assert Chicago as the sports industry city as Fulton Market has with legacy food brands
(2) Jordan's ownership would bring a lot of cachet and open up possibilities. A few off the top of my head:

-A major Air Jordan flagship store
-Offices of Chicago sports companies like Gatorade, Wilson, Stats, etc.
-Air Jordan/Nike satellite offices
-Top Golf/golf retail
-A Michael Jordan steakhouse
-Sports betting/DraftKings sportsbook

Armour Square Park could be built out a bit with basketball courts and extra facilities so it could be used occasionally for sports events. Perhaps there's room for a plaza with lots of seating within or adjacent to the park.

I think the South Side needs a bustling commercial district between the South Loop and Hyde Park, so geographically it feels like it would be a great fit as well.
Everything you say here. EVERYTHING! The field is so excellently located, next to the expressway and the Red Line. Build up those parking lots. Have two destination baseball parks.

And Reinsdorf may be cheap but he ain't dumb. He has seen how other teams have increased the team value by creating a district around them. Hell, he only needs to look north at how the Ricketts took a great district and tweaked it and increased the team value by billions. Ultimately this is what is driving the Bears out of the city. They want revenue stream from other sources.

Once in a generation chance.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2023, 2:09 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is offline
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 10,375
So I'm assuming talk about the shooting will be swiftly moved or deleted?
__________________
Everything new is old again

There is no goodness in him, and his power to convince people otherwise is beyond understanding
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2023, 4:13 PM
nomarandlee's Avatar
nomarandlee nomarandlee is online now
My Mind Has Left My Body
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,361
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense for both the Sox and Bears to move to Arlington Heights, especially from the Bears perspective. Bears games would only allow for ten days per year of dependable income streams into the various restaurant and retail venues they obviously want a part of. If the White Sox also build a stadium (there is plenty of room for two stadiums plus a neighborhood complex) it would provide the Bears more additional dependable revenue streams an extra 80 days per year, often on the nicest days of the when visitors will want to go to the various restaurants and shops.

In this scenario, I am guessing that the White Sox will want a cut of the adjacent neighborhood properties/income streams, but I think it makes sense for both to share in the mega-project.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2023, 6:53 PM
moorhosj1 moorhosj1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense for both the Sox and Bears to move to Arlington Heights, especially from the Bears perspective.
I’m not sure why it would make sense for a team that struggles to draw fans to build a stadium farther away from the bulk of their fanbase.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2023, 8:09 PM
Bonsai Tree's Avatar
Bonsai Tree Bonsai Tree is online now
Small but Mighty
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense for both the Sox and Bears to move to Arlington Heights, especially from the Bears perspective. Bears games would only allow for ten days per year of dependable income streams into the various restaurant and retail venues they obviously want a part of. If the White Sox also build a stadium (there is plenty of room for two stadiums plus a neighborhood complex) it would provide the Bears more additional dependable revenue streams an extra 80 days per year, often on the nicest days of the when visitors will want to go to the various restaurants and shops.

In this scenario, I am guessing that the White Sox will want a cut of the adjacent neighborhood properties/income streams, but I think it makes sense for both to share in the mega-project.
This makes 0 sense and would be dead on arrival in Arlington Heights
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2023, 9:55 PM
nomarandlee's Avatar
nomarandlee nomarandlee is online now
My Mind Has Left My Body
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsai Tree View Post
This makes 0 sense and would be dead on arrival in Arlington Heights
Make zero sense? Both teams bringing their combined resources to bear and splitting the dividends from a shared entertainment/retail district makes zero sense?

I live in Arlington Heights. I don't think most AH residents would care about hosting both teams, I think most residents would not care to fit the bill for funding either stadium. The Sox seemed rather serious about moving to Addison at one time. If Addison was considered a plausible move at one time I would think AH would as well.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2023, 11:18 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is offline
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 10,375
The Northsiders/Southsiders cultural fandom dynamic alone is a reason that even if the Sox did decamp to a new suburban park it wouldn't be one in the NW suburbs.
__________________
Everything new is old again

There is no goodness in him, and his power to convince people otherwise is beyond understanding
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2023, 3:42 AM
nomarandlee's Avatar
nomarandlee nomarandlee is online now
My Mind Has Left My Body
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,361
Quote:
https://www.soxon35th.com/report-whi...hyqP-lytSvaJto

REPORT: WHITE SOX EXPLORING 3 CHICAGO AREA SITES FOR NEW STADIUM
written by Jordan Lazowski August 27, 2023

According to Bob Nightengale’s Sunday Notebook over at USA Today, Jerry Reinsdorf and the White Sox are currently exploring three sites for a potential move out of Guaranteed Rate Field after their lease ends in 2028:

The United Center area
Arlington Heights
Soldier Field

The move would also potentially come with a retractable-roof stadium – another piece of the puzzle that Reinsdorf is reportedly exploring. It is not yet known if one of these three locations is considered a “favorite” by the White Sox.

The Soldier Field location is likely dependent on whether or not the Bears officially move to Arlington Heights – and the Arlington Heights super-complex between the White Sox and Bears would likely also be dependent on the Bears’ move becoming official.........
..
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:46 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.