What is the least "WASP" city in the United States?

[Capsicum]

Could we say that if the WASP vs. "white ethnic" divide has diminished stateside, it still exists in Canada? Australia? London, UK?

It's not entirely the same as "WASP" vs. "white ethnic" in the US framing, not a one-to-one mapping but there's a colonial/older white vs. recent "immigrant European (or closer to immigrant root)" kind of split in the Commonwealth countries.

It could be framed as white Brits vs. continental Europeans (e.g. Poles) in London, Anglo-Celtic Aussies vs. Italian and Greek Aussies in Melbourne, "Charter groups/"old stock" -- English and French" vs. the rest (e.g. arguably modern late 20th century multiculturalism was championed by Canadian groups like Ukrainian-Canadians that stateside would be viewed as "ethnic whites"), Anglo/Francophones vs. Allophones in Montreal, in Toronto perhaps there's kind of a legacy with old money WASPs, as with stereotypical Rosedale vs other groups, but it's also kind of fading.

[Capsicum]

A demographic feature that's common in the WASP vs. "white ethnic" framing in the US is the "white ethnic" has a strong attachment to old country identity in symbolic ways while already pretty assimilated or removed from the immigrant experience him/herself but plays up the ethnic character (might not speak more than a few words in the old country's language or visit it, but is staunchly proud of it).

In Canada, Australia, the UK, this seems less common. Strong "white ethnic" identity is actually linked to language/culture preservation and it's rare to have born-and-raised proud "white ethnics" not speaking a lick of Italian/Polish/never been to Ireland etc. folks saying in English as the only language they've been fluent in, but still identifying separately from WASPs.

[Docere]

Is being Ukrainian in Winnipeg like being Polish in Buffalo?

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Docere

Is being Ukrainian in Winnipeg like being Polish in Buffalo?

How does culture/language/identity/cuisine preservation and intermarriage differ between them?

My instinct is to say that due to the bloc settlement thing and later multiculturalism framing my perspective (so maybe this is familiarity with the Canadian narrative bias talking), on the whole Ukrainian Canadians preserve culture considerably more than many "white American" ethnic counterparts (not counting particular ethnoreligious enclaves deliberately set up by Amish, Mennonite, Orthodox Jewish), like there are 5th generation Ukrainian speakers but few US white ethnic groups like this.

Then again I could be wrong... there could be European ethnic settlements (e.g. Texas German) still as lively to the 20th century in cultural preservation as Canadian prairie bloc settlement.

Canadian Ukrainian enclaves' probably hard to top for any US eastern Europe origin counterpart, are any Polish enclaves as Polish culturally (in either country) as Canadian Ukrainians are Ukrainian, relative to their timing of settlement?

[Docere]

I don't think there's a major difference between the US and Canada when one accounts for generations.

Language is usually gone by the third generation, certainly in urban settings. In rural settlements sometimes the language lasted longer. German held out for a long time in the Dakotas, for example.

But maybe this "Canadian Ukrainians vs. US white ethnics" question is good for the Canadian forum?

[Docere]

I also think the "white ethnics" today living in remaining ethnic neighborhoods to a large degree are postwar immigrants and their offspring; not fourth generation Americans. Chicago had a lot of Polish immigration after WWII and again in the 1980s and 1990s. There's a high level of Polish birth and language in NW and SW Chicago and adjacent Cook County suburbs.

The white ethnic Poles of the Daley machine era were mostly second generation Americans, and most likely their descendants are assimilated and living in sprawl. In the 1960s they would have still had familiarity with Polish language and customs, they were no further removed from the immigrant experience than the children of the earliest post-1965 immigrants are today (who now middle age).

[mrnyc]

so what did we decide here? el paso, right?

[MABottz]

El Paso's good, but I'm going with Brownsville-Harlingen-McAllen.

[Capsicum]

Can we count somewhere in Puerto Rico, Guam etc. or is that disqualifying?

[Crawford]

Whites in TX are very heavily Protestant. Especially outside the biggest metros. So somewhere like El Paso would have a pretty substantial WASP population. I guess Brownsville wouldn't, but that's just bc the white non-Hispanic is near-zero, not bc it isn't heavily Protestant.

[Docere]

Protestants as % of white population

Atlanta 62%
Houston 58%
San Diego 46%
Baltimore 42%
Detroit 42%
Phoenix 41%
Pittsburgh 41%
Tampa 41%
Seattle 38%
Tampa 38%
Los Angeles 35%
Washington 35%
Chicago 33%
Philadelphia 33%
Miami 28%
Providence 23%
Boston 22%
New York 18%
San Francisco 17%