Bayers Road Widening

[halifaxboyns]

In light of the series which CBC did on infrastructure and the cost to replace the Gardiner in Toronto - I too am glad that we never got Harbour Drive.

That being said the transportation system does need to be rethought in dealing with how you get people to and from downtown and I am one who believes road capacity isn't going to do it.

I think others have also pointed out that the overall system doesn't seem to be thought about either. So you widen Bayer's Road - but what about the other bottlenecks down the line...its these things that also seem to get missed so all you end up doing is moving the log jam somewhere else. Personally, I'd like to see some transit investment first. Get something like regional rail or HS ferries, LRT or some combination there of going before you start widening the road.

[q12]

I would actually like to see Highway 102 connect to the Windsor Street Exchange.

Then Bayers Road could be more of an exit than the end of the Highway. That way the highway could be nearly continuous all the way to Woodside on Highway 111. There is a lot of traffic that connects from the Mackay Bridge to Highway 102 daily.

[Keith P.]

The above is what was proposed a few years ago. The late erik Nielsen, the former MP who retired to Halifax, drew up a similar plan which was actually quite brilliant. It sacrificed a relatively small number of houses and utilized the land behind the Superstore to connect to a presumably redesigned Windsor St exchange. Naturally, nothing was done.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The above is what was proposed a few years ago. The late erik Nielsen, the former MP who retired to Halifax, drew up a similar plan which was actually quite brilliant. It sacrificed a relatively small number of houses and utilized the land behind the Superstore to connect to a presumably redesigned Windsor St exchange. Naturally, nothing was done.

I recall that somewhat - but I don't remember the alignment. I wonder if there is a diagram somewhere on the internet?

[sdm]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

In light of the series which CBC did on infrastructure and the cost to replace the Gardiner in Toronto - I too am glad that we never got Harbour Drive.

That being said the transportation system does need to be rethought in dealing with how you get people to and from downtown and I am one who believes road capacity isn't going to do it.

I think others have also pointed out that the overall system doesn't seem to be thought about either. So you widen Bayer's Road - but what about the other bottlenecks down the line...its these things that also seem to get missed so all you end up doing is moving the log jam somewhere else. Personally, I'd like to see some transit investment first. Get something like regional rail or HS ferries, LRT or some combination there of going before you start widening the road.

The lots mostly along part of bayers road were done with the intentions of widening the road in the future. If you look you can see a number of the lawns of houses on bayers road are owned and managed by HRM. This isn't a new concept (1950's era i believe).

Part of the problem is people are leaving the core because its hard to get to. Increasing transit is the first priority, however its of no benefit if the chose of transit is going to be caught in these traffic/ bottle necks. Like you said Halifaxboyns, the best solution is LRT.

[goosnarrggh]

Originally Posted by bedfordite_93

I don't know what they were thinking 60 years ago when they ended the 102 at bayer's road which in fact isn't even on the peninsula yet. They should have built the 102 to connect right through to barrington street and the mackay bridge. If you look at google maps, they could have done that before they built the Joe Howe Superstore. Then they should have built Harbour Drive, which would have been designated as part of Hwy 102 and take cars right into downtown.

The original plan was for Hwy 102 to continue along the roadway that is currently designated as Connaught Avenue, and it was going to extend all the way to the current Pt. Pleasant container terminal, via the CN Rail cut. Originally, the 2nd harbour bridge would have originated there, crossing over to Woodside, perhaps with a pit stop on MacNab's Island to open it up for development. (The MacKay bridge's current location was considered after all these plans fell apart.)

Landowners south of Jubilee fought that plan, refusing to sell the property which would have allowed Connaught to be extended into the CN cut. They lobbied to have the land designated as a park, which effectively shut down that idea.

Instead, the compromise idea was to extend the Hwy 102 designation along Connaught as far as Quinpool, and then use Quinpool to connect Hwy 102 to Harbour Drive. As late as the late 1980s (at least), provincial road atlases still showed Connaught, Quinpool, and several other streets, as non-controlled-access segments of Hwy 102. The directional signs are still standing.

[gm_scott]

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.asp...k0MDkwMTYyNA==
Wow, I have never noticed this until now. Connaught Avenue is marked as the 102, which continues into Quinpool, then Cogswell, then Upper Water, then Sackville, and finally Bell. The 102 apparently makes a complete loop around the Citadel. very interesting

[q12]

http://novascotia.ca/news/release/?id=20130328002

Joseph Howe Interchange Upgrade Begins April 1

Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal
March 28, 2013 11:36 AM

One of the oldest and most heavily travelled sections of Nova Scotia's 100-series highways is getting an overhaul starting Monday, April 1.

The Joseph Howe Overpass in Halifax, which carries traffic on Highway 102 over Joseph Howe Drive to connect with Bayers Road is getting new pavement, concrete, bridge rails, deck joints and lighting. The $3.4-million upgrade was awarded to Eastern Infrastructure Inc., and will take about nine months.

"This upgrade modernizes this busy overpass," said Maurice Smith, Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal. "The upgrading of the lighting system includes the installation of 70 high-efficiency, state-of-the-art LED lights."

Two lanes of traffic will be open, as much as possible, in the direction of the peak traffic flow, meaning two inbound lanes in the morning rush and two outbound during the evening.

The project is part of a multi-year project and is in the department's 5-Year Highway Improvement Plan.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by q12

http://novascotia.ca/news/release/?id=20130328002

Joseph Howe Interchange Upgrade Begins April 1

Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal
March 28, 2013 11:36 AM

One of the oldest and most heavily travelled sections of Nova Scotia's 100-series highways is getting an overhaul starting Monday, April 1.

The Joseph Howe Overpass in Halifax, which carries traffic on Highway 102 over Joseph Howe Drive to connect with Bayers Road is getting new pavement, concrete, bridge rails, deck joints and lighting. The $3.4-million upgrade was awarded to Eastern Infrastructure Inc., and will take about nine months.

"This upgrade modernizes this busy overpass," said Maurice Smith, Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal. "The upgrading of the lighting system includes the installation of 70 high-efficiency, state-of-the-art LED lights."

Two lanes of traffic will be open, as much as possible, in the direction of the peak traffic flow, meaning two inbound lanes in the morning rush and two outbound during the evening.

The project is part of a multi-year project and is in the department's 5-Year Highway Improvement Plan.

Is widening of Bayers Road still a possibility or is that a taboo subject now on par with the North West Arm bridge? The squeaky wheels (ecological conscious ones) in Halifax seem to have an undue influence over municipal planning.

At times I think that some of us older forum members want progress more than the younger ones instead of vice versa as is often assumed.

[q12]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Is widening of Bayers Road still a possibility or is that a taboo subject now on par with the North West Arm bridge? The squeaky wheels (ecological conscious ones) in Halifax seem to have an undue influence over municipal planning.

It is required to correct the ridiculous termination of one of the busiest expressways in Halifax onto a narrow residential street.

Widening of the bi-hi is needed in additon to bayers road which is the province's responsibility and not the municipality between Ashburn Ave and Highway 103.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Is widening of Bayers Road still a possibility or is that a taboo subject now on par with the North West Arm bridge? The squeaky wheels (ecological conscious ones) in Halifax seem to have an undue influence over municipal planning.

At times I think that some of us older forum members want progress more than the younger ones instead of vice versa as is often assumed.

it would make sense to do that project at the same time as this as to be less disruptive.

Nevertheless, i haven't heard boo on what the plans are for bayers road. Funny thing, while reviewing property online you can see where HRM either owns and or maintains easements accross the front of a lot properties on Bayers Road. So a couple of houses need to be taken, all for the sake o progress for tens of thousand? seems simple to me.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

At times I think that some of us older forum members want progress more than the younger ones instead of vice versa as is often assumed.

I think you are right about that. It seems to me they read a theory in a book, for example, that we should not add lanes. They do not remember what it was like before we added lanes or build some of the roads we have built in the last 60 years. Just imagine had we not built hwy 102 or Bayers Rd.
I remember as a kid watching traffic on the Bedford Hwy; it was the only road into town in those days. It was generally bumper to bumper for a lot of the time. We could wait 10 minutes for a break in the traffic just to cross the highway.
I also remember when it took 4 hours to travel from Moncton to Halifax. Again bumper to bumper and stop and go thru Wentworth. The same from Lantz into the city. It was so exciting when BiHi got built out to the airport and the traffic eased.
I also remember the 401 in Toronto when it was a 4 lane divided highway. Just imagine that same highway without the extra lanes.
I also remember when gas was $0.30 per gallon and who ever thought we would pay today's prices. Well we do, so I am sure we will when the price goes up to $200.00 per barrel.
It is an interesting experiment to not add lanes or improve roads; we do not know how it will have affected us until 60 years into the future and then it could be too late to try and catch up.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

At times I think that some of us older forum members want progress more than the younger ones instead of vice versa as is often assumed.

I think we all want progress—it's just a different idea of what progress is. For me, creating communities where car use is not a daily necessity is progress. Increasing population in the inner city, while respecting the existing built environment that gives us a sense of place and permanence (and contributes to a healthy, necessary mix of building types that we need for a diverse business sector), is progress.

In the 50s-60s, progress was considered knocking down those buildings for high-rises, and routing traffic arteries through the downtown, which was no longer considered a viable residential community. That's changed. (Maybe in 50 years I'll be arguing with another young generation when the pendulum swings back, or some as-yet unseen planning dogma takes over.)

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

(Maybe in 50 years I'll be arguing with another young generation when the pendulum swings back, or some as-yet unseen planning dogma takes over.)

We don't know what kind of technologies will be invented by then so it's hard to predict, but I would say it's safe to bet that -- with a growing population of mostly poor, working-class people on a planet with finite resources and a degrading environmental stability -- public transit will become the staple of our transportation needs, throughout our increasingly compact and vertical cities.

[haligonia]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I think we all want progress—it's just a different idea of what progress is. For me, creating communities where car use is not a daily necessity is progress. Increasing population in the inner city, while respecting the existing built environment that gives us a sense of place and permanence (and contributes to a healthy, necessary mix of building types that we need for a diverse business sector), is progress.

Quoted for truth.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I think we all want progress—it's just a different idea of what progress is. For me, creating communities where car use is not a daily necessity is progress. Increasing population in the inner city, while respecting the existing built environment that gives us a sense of place and permanence (and contributes to a healthy, necessary mix of building types that we need for a diverse business sector), is progress.

That's one definition. Not all would agree with it.

[haligonia]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That's one definition. Not all would agree with it.

Which is why he prefaced it with For me. We all need to accept that our personal opinion isn't the only one or necessarily the right one.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by haligonia

Which is why he prefaced it with For me. We all need to accept that our personal opinion isn't the only one or necessarily the right one.

Yeah, exactly.

But, Keith, I do believe if we take look at which cities in North America are really experiencing downtown revitalization and re-investment, we'd largely (not always, of course) find cities that hew close to the vision I put forth.

Even the posterchild for sunbelt sprawl, Phoenix (Phoenix!) is sloooowly starting to get it, with a plan to direct development to LRT corridors, in a mixed-use model, and preserve the meagre remains of its built heritage.

[someone123]

I won't speak for everybody, but I think there's a growing group of younger people who just aren't that interested in what suburbia has to offer. They don't want the lawn, the two-car garage, and the commute by car. They want to live in the city where there is a lot of activity going on, even if it means accepting less living space. They'll drive if they have to, but they'd prefer to walk or bike. Increasingly this group of people includes some of the most talented who would move to a city like Halifax, the sort of people who often drive economic development. Halifax can't compete for talent with Wal-Mart suburbia. Its urban charm and natural environment are its only really marketable assets.

Some road improvements are necessary as a city grows but it's not a mere coincidence that so much of the decline of the city went hand-in-hand with car-oriented redevelopment projects. We paid for the suburban growth with a hollowed out core that has only recently started to recover (without any substantial investment in new roads). Furthermore, a lot of the need for road capacity was driven by deliberately car-oriented plans to develop areas like Burnside and Bayers Lake. I understand why it makes sense to put industrial development on the fringe of the city where there are fewer residents and where there's more space, but why does it make sense to put office buildings in those areas? Why did HRM permit big box stores in a place that required a $16M underpass to handle a fraction of its traffic?

PS - the city just sold off 185 nearby acres for about 2/3 the price of that interchange. HRM is effectively paying businesses to relocate to inconvenient areas and exacerbate regional planning problems.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by someone123

I won't speak for everybody, but I think there's a growing group of younger people who just aren't that interested in what suburbia has to offer. They don't want the lawn, the two-car garage, and the commute by car. They want to live in the city where there is a lot of activity going on, even if it means accepting less living space.

I think you're right.

Nearly everyone I know around my age (people in their 20s) is choosing non-suburban living options -- even my peers who have children. This is partly due to financial restrictions (it's cheaper to own a condo and be near large parks than it is to settle down in the suburbs).

Interestingly enough, my friends who have strongly considered the 'burbs ultimately chose against them because, in their opinion, that sort of lifestyle is 'greedy'. Expecting the government to provide perfect roads, with perfect police and fire protection, near perfect schools and perfect hospitals (and there had better not be long waiting times!!) just so you can live far away from the masses and have your own little castle in the middle of what was once lush forest...is pretty damn greedy; I agree.