Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service

[lrt's friend]

My point is to have a more solid transit grid so that that there are more ways to get around the city. This will give some people a better choice instead of funneling everybody to rail. Obviously, for most rail will. continue to be the best choice. But buses and streetcars continue to move a lot of people in Toronto and Montreal.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

My point is to have a more solid transit grid so that that there are more ways to get around the city. This will give some people a better choice instead of funneling everybody to rail. Obviously, for most rail will. continue to be the best choice. But buses and streetcars continue to move a lot of people in Toronto and Montreal.

I need to emphasize again that the people in Toronto or Montreal who are getting around by streetcar or bus (and are not otherwise connecting to the subway) are not going to be affected by subway disruptions in the first place.

Sure, having other rapid transit cross-city transit corridors would be beneficial-- because those corridors like Carling and Baseline have large transit ridership potential in their own right. But the people who will end up using those corridors are very unlikely to have used the LRT in the first place, and it will not make the LRT any less of a "single point of failure" than it is now or than the Toronto Subway or Montreal Metro are in their own respects.

You're muddling the two issues together as if it's somehow the LRT's fault that these other corridors haven't been built. The transportation rationale for corridors like the Baseline BRT still stand, no?

[SidetrackedSue]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Sure, having other rapid transit cross-city transit corridors would be beneficial-- because those corridors like Carling and Baseline have large transit ridership potential in their own right. But the people who will end up using those corridors are very unlikely to have used the LRT in the first place, and it will not make the LRT any less of a "single point of failure" than it is now or than the Toronto Subway or Montreal Metro are in their own respects.

I respectfully disagree. I will live within a short two blocks from an LRT station at some point in my life. (Should have been by now, but in theory I'll live long enough.)

But my neighbourhood has buses that go south to Carling. If there was a Carling and/or Baseline BRT, in an outage of the LRT, I'd be heading south to use those options east or west. So they help make the LRT less of single point of failure.

This is just the way traffic flows. Those who only use the 417 for cross town driving switch to the KZM, Baseline/Heron or Hunt Club when the 417 is blocked by accidents or closed for bridge replacement.

As they say, traffic (vehicle or individual commuters) is like water, it flows around blockages if there is a path to do so. In the case of Ottawa, a good portion of the flow around LRT blockages has been people purchasing vehicles and abandoning transit completely because of the lack of bus alternates.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by SidetrackedSue

I respectfully disagree. I will live within a short two blocks from an LRT station at some point in my life. (Should have been by now, but in theory I'll live long enough.)

But my neighbourhood has buses that go south to Carling. If there was a Carling and/or Baseline BRT, in an outage of the LRT, I'd be heading south to use those options east or west. So they help make the LRT less of single point of failure.

For a multi-day extended outage, I would understand— but for any of the brief disruptions that you'd see on the LRT or Subway on any normal given day? You'd have to be paying very close attention to the state of the LRT at every moment to see a disruption begin right as you're leaving in order to know to take a bus going the other way to get around it, and even then that's still going to be a considerable detour for an issue that will likely only last 30 or so minutes.

You may very well be an exception to the rule, but more importantly I think any argument that Baseline or Carling rapid transit corridors should be built on the basis of "LRT redundancy" is going to fall flat on its face. Not only is that the very kind of "redundancy" this city cut as a cost-saving measure, but it's a lot of money to be spending on a service for a use case that few people will benefit from. Now like I said, I think rapid transit deserves to exist on these corridors in their own right, but I promise that it's not going to help anyone who gets stuck on the LRT any more than the LRT would help someone trying to get somewhere along Baseline when a bus inevitably hooks a car making an illegal left turn in a future Baseline BRT world.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

When you look at a city like Toronto which has lots of "parallel" routes throughout its grid network... nobody is going out of their way to take a bus or streetcar when the Subway network has a hiccup.

I had to do exactly that the last time I was in Toronto.

It'd be like taking the 14 (in Ottawa) as a way to bypass an LRT disruption at uOttawa.

Us OC Transpo ninjas do this sort of thing on the regular when we find ourselves confronted with an LRT problem that the regular bus network offers a workaround for, actually.

[ponyboycurtis]

I was just in Toronto and they were actively calling out service disruptions with a brief description, location and expected delay over both the platform speakers and train speakers.

I don't think this is too much to ask when you are spending billions of dollars. It really helps make an educated decision to potentially switch modes, walk, Uber or otherwise.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

I was just in Toronto and they were actively calling out service disruptions with a brief description, location and expected delay over both the platform speakers and train speakers.

I don't think this is too much to ask when you are spending billions of dollars. It really helps make an educated decision to potentially switch modes, walk, Uber or otherwise.

That would be nice getting a bit more detail. Yesterday, there was a delay due to a medical emergency "on another train". I appreciated that they specified medical emergency, but I would have liked a bit more.

That said, the ordeal may have added 5 minutes tops to the trip.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That would be nice getting a bit more detail. Yesterday, there was a delay due to a medical emergency "on another train". I appreciated that they specified medical emergency, but I would have liked a bit more.

That said, the ordeal may have added 5 minutes tops to the trip.

lol, imagine if they got more specific?

"Hey folks.. uhh... just another small crackhead fire on the train up ahead. Won't be more than a couple minutes before we get moving again. While we're waiting on the track, try not to make eye contact with the man shouting in the seat facing you. If he spits, there's paper towel in the locked public bathrooms at the next station. Thank ya'll for your patience."

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

lol, imagine if they got more specific?

"Hey folks.. uhh... just another small crackhead fire on the train up ahead. Won't be more than a couple minutes before we get moving again. While we're waiting on the track, try not to make eye contact with the man shouting in the seat facing you. If he spits, there's paper towel in the locked public bathrooms at the next station. Thank ya'll for your patience."

Not THAT much information We don't need to know the nature of the medical emergency.

As per Ponyboy's post, the location could help (though maybe not a good idea with a medical emergency to prevent rubberneckers from moving towards it, but maybe a broken down train) and estimated time before a return to service so we can make on decision on waiting vs. finding a different way home.

[daud]

I've heard very little in the way of issues as it relates to Line 1 recently. Are we at a point where service is reasonable and somewhat reliable?

Anyone know the speeds around Hurdman to Tremblay? are they still dog slow?

in any event, no news is hopefully good news for Line 1 !!!

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by daud

I've heard very little in the way of issues as it relates to Line 1 recently. Are we at a point where service is reasonable and somewhat reliable?

Anyone know the speeds around Hurdman to Tremblay? are they still dog slow?

in any event, no news is hopefully good news for Line 1 !!!

It's been reliable since it reopened in August. A few minor service disruptions (count on one hand), the biggest being when Tremblay to Blair was offline for a few hours because they needed to inspect the St. Laurent tunnel.

Still slow. About 25 minutes Blair to Lyon when it used to be 23 Blair to Tunney's. Stupid long dwell times. Weird behaviour from the doors at times (close and open multiple times, announcement and all).

It's functional and reliable, but not "World Class" by any stretch.

[OTSkyline]

Nice to hear of the decline in incidents affecting line 1. It's encouraging, especially since they're not running doubles right? Or at least doubles every other train or something?

Anecdotally I also heard trains seem busier lately.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

Nice to hear of the decline in incidents affecting line 1. It's encouraging, especially since they're not running doubles right? Or at least doubles every other train or something?

Anecdotally I also heard trains seem busier lately.

They started running all doubles again on weekdays in early January. Second week I think.

Still singles every 10 minutes on weekends though.

[ottawaballa]

Originally Posted by daud

I've heard very little in the way of issues as it relates to Line 1 recently. Are we at a point where service is reasonable and somewhat reliable?

Anyone know the speeds around Hurdman to Tremblay? are they still dog slow?

in any event, no news is hopefully good news for Line 1 !!!

It seems to be running well with very few issues.

It's still slow between St-Laurent and Lees but seems to have picked up speed in other areas, especially the section between uOttawa and Rideau.

I ride the section between Blair and Rideau quite a bit and it now takes about 18 minutes in that stretch. Down from almost 20 last year but up from about 15 prior to the slow downs.

The dwell times are still long and inconsistent. 30 seconds at one station, 60 at the next, etc...

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

They started running all doubles again on weekdays in early January. Second week I think.

Still singles every 10 minutes on weekends though.

A few weeks ago I caught the last train of the night just past 2am on Sunday morning and it was a double. Found that interesting.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by ottawaballa

It seems to be running well with very few issues.

It's still slow between St-Laurent and Lees but seems to have picked up speed in other areas, especially the section between uOttawa and Rideau.

I ride the section between Blair and Rideau quite a bit and it now takes about 18 minutes in that stretch. Down from almost 20 last year but up from about 15 prior to the slow downs.

The dwell times are still long and inconsistent. 30 seconds at one station, 60 at the next, etc...

By far the biggest annoyance for me. They could restore the old travel times just by adjusting dwell to something more reasonable. Lyon to uOttawa, Hurdman and St. Laurent, 30 seconds is good. Bayview (while Line 2 is closed), Pimisi, Tremblay could drop to 10 seconds. Cyrville heading east is probably long as it waits for the other train to leave Blair.

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

A few weeks ago I caught the last train of the night just past 2am on Sunday morning and it was a double. Found that interesting.

Weird.

[DTcrawler]

The dwell times absolutely need to be shortened. I recall shortly after the line opened a whole stink was raised about people not having enough time to board/disembark before the doors closed. Of course there was a whole host of other issues going on with the line at the time and ridership was higher, and people were still getting used to the line in general.

Personally I feel the problem was caused more so by Ottawans' lack of foresight and reluctance to move towards the door before the train comes to a full stop at a station. You see this on buses too where someone will decide to get up from their seat at the last second and then start banging on the door demanding that the driver let them off.

Regardless, you could easily get away with 10 second dwell times at every station except the downtown ones and maybe uOttawa/Bayview due to students, where 20 sec would suffice and only during peak times. Tunney's and Blair don't count since operators switch cabs there anyways. Anyone who's taken the TTC or STM knows that some stations see dwell times of 5 seconds tops.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

The dwell times absolutely need to be shortened. I recall shortly after the line opened a whole stink was raised about people not having enough time to board/disembark before the doors closed. Of course there was a whole host of other issues going on with the line at the time and ridership was higher, and people were still getting used to the line in general.

Personally I feel the problem was caused more so by Ottawans' lack of foresight and reluctance to move towards the door before the train comes to a full stop at a station. You see this on buses too where someone will decide to get up from their seat at the last second and then start banging on the door demanding that the driver let them off.

Regardless, you could easily get away with 10 second dwell times at every station except the downtown ones and maybe uOttawa/Bayview due to students, where 20 sec would suffice and only during peak times. Tunney's and Blair don't count since operators switch cabs there anyways. Anyone who's taken the TTC or STM knows that some stations see dwell times of 5 seconds tops.

I'm not saying you are wrong about the timidness of Ottawans, though trying to hold the door was also supposedly one of the big problems, but the fact we have Trams acting as heavy rail seems to be the more obvious problem. Is there any discussion in the medium term to abandon these vehicles and go with something heavier? Is there such a thing as low floor heavy metro ? If so we could mix them in gradually no?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

The dwell times absolutely need to be shortened. I recall shortly after the line opened a whole stink was raised about people not having enough time to board/disembark before the doors closed. Of course there was a whole host of other issues going on with the line at the time and ridership was higher, and people were still getting used to the line in general.

There was an overcorrection by OC Transpo, and the they did not solve the overcorrection. They should have red vests observe each station for a month and write down how much time it takes to load and unload to better gauge how much time is actually needed. And don't count the guy running down the stairs 30 seconds in.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I'm not saying you are wrong about the timidness of Ottawans, though trying to hold the door was also supposedly one of the big problems, but the fact we have Trams acting as heavy rail seems to be the more obvious problem. Is there any discussion in the medium term to abandon these vehicles and go with something heavier? Is there such a thing as low floor heavy metro ? If so we could mix them in gradually no?

For sure. Door to length ratio is greatly effected. It can be tough to get up from your seat at the back and fight through a crowd to get to the one or two only doors in the module.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I'm not saying you are wrong about the timidness of Ottawans, though trying to hold the door was also supposedly one of the big problems, but the fact we have Trams acting as heavy rail seems to be the more obvious problem. Is there any discussion in the medium term to abandon these vehicles and go with something heavier? Is there such a thing as low floor heavy metro ? If so we could mix them in gradually no?

Don't know if low-floor heavy metro would solve the issue. The sensitivity of the doors seems to have been corrected but the issue that persists is the narrow aisle where the wheel/bogie assembly intrudes into the cabin space. This makes it difficult to get around the cabin and get to the doors when it gets busy (this issue is compounded by Ottawans' lack of spatial awareness, reluctance to take off their backpacks on the train, and overly large personal space bubbles).

That being said, dwell times are still far too long. There is a solid 10-15+ seconds of minimal boarding/disembarkment before the doors finally close at most stations.