Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Nebula3lem123]

My comment on "real city" was more referring to the fact that SLC looks like a

bigger city every time I look at the skyline. Personally, I think SLC's skyline is

really good for a city of our size, the Astra may not stand out as much as many

hoped, but I still think it provides a good centerpiece to SLC, at least until a

taller building comes in (Regent Street?). A comparison I like to make is between

SLC and San Jose:



For a city of over a million, SJ has a quite unimpressive skyline, which SLC beats

out in my opinion.

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by Nebula3lem123

My comment on "real city" was more referring to the fact that SLC looks like a

bigger city every time I look at the skyline. Personally, I think SLC's skyline is

really good for a city of our size, the Astra may not stand out as much as many

hoped, but I still think it provides a good centerpiece to SLC, at least until a

taller building comes in (Regent Street?). A comparison I like to make is between

SLC and San Jose:



For a city of over a million, SJ has a quite unimpressive skyline, which SLC beats

out in my opinion.

The better comparisons should be places like Sacramento, San Antonio, Austin Kansas City, St Louis, Columbus, Indy, Pittsburgh and Nashville. Those cities are a more comparable CSA population. SLC is behind most of those. It's maybe better than Sacramento right now?

[Nebula3lem123]

Here's Sacramento:



IMO they beat us in terms of architecture, but SLC succeeds in filling in the

space between buildings. SLC also has a better gradient from "skyscrapers" (I

know SLC technically doesn't have any) to surrounding neighborhoods. I'm

obviously biased, but I give SLC the win here.

[wrendog]

So, it sounds like the plan is for both the Jazz and NHL to play in the DC and they will take 2 summers (3 including this summer, I guess) to complete the full renovation so we will have 17k hockey seats and 19k seats for hoops. Still not sure how this will be possible over 3 summers with both teams playing full seasons during renovation.

I really hope we get to see the plans soon. Such a quick refurbishment doesn't seem like it will be a super impressive renovation, but it's supposed to cost upwards of 1 billion, so we will see!

https://twitter.com/BensHoops/status...Fid%3D32926749

[taboubak]

So I have some info to share on the renovation/rebuild of the Delta Center. As of now the goal is a complete renovation, think Key Arena/Climate Pledge Arena in Seattle. Same general footprint and location but essentially a new arena. The new entertainment district will be the blocks where the west end of the convention center is now, and the rendering you all saw in February is actually their vision for the renovated Delta Center. The plan while ambitious, is to reconstruct the convention center and reconnect 100s all the way from City Creek down. How that will be done still remains to be seen but expect a major reconstruction of this area and both the convention center and the Delta Center. Also expect Japantown to have a seat at the table during these discussions and to be revitalized a bit. I do think this project could also blend well with the new West Quarter Phase 2. We may soon get a completely connected downtown all the way to 300w. The time frame for the arena renovation is 3 years so expect this to start in some form relatively soon.

[wrendog]

I still don't know how they can complete a full blown renovation in 3 offseasons and still have both teams play there. Will be interesting to find out

[taboubak]

Additional tidbit I forgot to mention. Expect a second floor of the convention center with a sky bridge connecting the two sections over 100s. Expect demolition of the current West side of the building. Not sure of the current plans for the Raddison hotel. Schmoe I know you had connections with the Ritchie Group. I wonder if they have been contacted about coordinating this with their Phase 2 plans?

[Paniolo Man]

Originally Posted by taboubak

Additional tidbit I forgot to mention. Expect a second floor of the convention center with a sky bridge connecting the two sections over 100s. Expect demolition of the current West side of the building. Not sure of the current plans for the Raddison hotel. Schmoe I know you had connections with the Ritchie Group. I wonder if they have been contacted about coordinating this with their Phase 2 plans?

Last I heard the Raddison will be a casualty of this plan.

[Schmoe]

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

Last I heard the Raddison will be a casualty of this plan.

Buying the Radisson will be an expensive part of this project if the plan is to demolish it for the land.

I don't have a Ritchie update other than knowing they are close to all of this, so certainly will be involved in some way.

[mattreedah]

Originally Posted by Schmoe

Buying the Radisson will be an expensive part of this project if the plan is to demolish it for the land.

I do wonder if instead of tearing it down you could incorporate it. Same with the concert hall and museum.

[Rileybo]

Death to Radisson. Long live Abravanel Hall.

[Paniolo Man]

I ran around this afternoon taking pictures of a few of the buildings that would be impacted/eliminated by the Delta Center news.

Delta Center







Radisson



Maurice Abravanel Hall





Utah Museum of Contemporary Art



Salt Palace







Fidelity



Neat looking vacant building



Block of Parking





Among all of these the museum and Abravanel Hall would be the worst to lose. I'd also be sad about that neat little stumpy vacant building. It isn't doing much and looks rough, but it has character. A major Salt Palace refresh wouldn't hurt. It lacks much exterior appeal and the interior feels run-down. I'd love a better looking, taller Salt Palace.

[Makid]

There was something that I picked up on with regards to the upcoming Entertainment District. When Ryan Smith has talked about his original plans (point of the mountain), he's mentioned 100 acres for the stadium + parking + entertainment options + hotel space + 5,000 housing units. He wanted to include enough housing for all his employees.

With regards to the now, Plan A, he has mentioned much of the same, without mentioning parking. With regards to housing, he has said he would like enough housing to cover all hockey players and staff as close as possible to the Delta Center. I have also heard mention of Jazz players and staff as well.

As it may take 5 or more years before the Convention Center is modified enough to allow for the removal of space on the block east of the Delta Center, it seems to reason the best place for Ryan to build his Housing project would be the NW corner of the block, where the Fidelity building is today. The Fidelity building was originally just supposed to be a placeholder before a larger project was built in its place (early plans were a 40ish story W hotel). A residential tower at this location will stand out in the skyline from multiple angles.

Of course, this is primarily speculation at this point but it is also highly probable based on what Ryan has said since the NHL has come to SLC.

I did want to mention the UMOCA. There were plans for the UMOCA building, Visit Salt Lake offices, and some meeting rooms in the Convention Center (north site) to be demolished and replaced by the CCH. After the CCH was built at its current location (south site), the north site area has been planned for a future second CCH + possible apartments. No timeline has been associated with this.

If the Convention Center is opened up along 1st South (still linked above 1st South), we may see the 2nd CCH built as part of the project.

I would say, that if they do stack the exhibit and meeting space for the Convention Center, it would be better to add more space than exists today. They should push the updated Convention Center to have more exhibit and meeting space than exists today. I would hate to spend a couple Billion just to end up where we are today for exhibit and meeting space. Adding more space (particularly meeting space) would open the center to more and larger, conventions/meetings. The benefits to the economy could help to justify the increase in cost.

I just hope that no matter what happens with the Convention Center, that they do something to make the back side (2nd West) look better.

[bob rulz]

I wouldn't want to lose UMOCA either, but art can be moved. It would be nearly impossible to replicate Abravanel Hall again, especially not in such a good location and at a cost I could see them willing to do. Realistically, having both of those within this district should be seen as a boon.

[Nebula3lem123]

Losing Abravanel Hall will be very damaging to that area, much more than any sports team could make up for in my opinion. It's a non-option IMO.

[i-215]

Your photo tour shapes my opinion toward this prediction:

The Entertainment District (like most plans) will be severely watered down once the estimates come in.

That being said, there are still ways to create an excellent "mall"-like entertainment district and not take out the high-rise hotel or the symphony hall:



It would only require demolishing the convention center.

You know...

The convention center that we've paid to expand TWICE (because it was critical to the city).
The convention center that is the center of the Outdoor Retailers Expo (because it was critical to the city).
The convention center that we watched eagerly on this forum for a decade eventually build a "convention center hotel" (because it was critical to the city).

But sure... let's demolish the entire convention center, symphony hall, and a perfectly good high-rise hotel because it makes a billionaire happy.

A final concern: This project is effectively a SECOND City Creek. Considering how the Gateway has struggled since City Creek opened, I wonder if the market can support that much more retail and dining space. Wouldn't SEG be better off fixing up the Gateway and making it the entertainment district?

[Paniolo Man]

Utah Woolen Mills:

[Rileybo]

Originally Posted by i-215

A final concern: This project is effectively a SECOND City Creek. Considering how the Gateway has struggled since City Creek opened, I wonder if the market can support that much more retail and dining space. Wouldn't SEG be better off fixing up the Gateway and making it the entertainment district?

If it happens downtown, it will be better for the city than CCC or Gateway.. even a watered down plan will be better. CCC is a walled-up mid-tier shopping mall full of stores that most people can’t afford to buy from plus there’s no booze and it closes early it’s not even open at all on Sundays. Those condos are pretty on the outside, but nobody remotely near my economic status can even dream of being able to afford to live in one of them. And Gateway’s got more issues than I really care to list. Personally I don’t care if either mall struggles, they need to radically alter.

The market can support a downtown with twice as many retail and dining options, our liquor laws need to change amongst other things.. different discussion though.

[mattreedah]

Originally Posted by Rileybo

The market can support a downtown with twice as many retail and dining options, our liquor laws need to change amongst other things.. different discussion though.

If the church is involved it doesn't see this project as a threat; rather, they see it as complimentary. That makes me think there isn't a huge retail component. If the SEG project is restaurant/bar, hotel and residential I think it could work. I also think Ryan is planning to put a future hockey (and maybe basketball?) practice facility nearby as he recently discussed it on a local interview (they'll go to the oval until then).

West quarter on the other hand has SUPER HIGH END retail ambitions but I don't know if they'll actually get any. I honestly don't think we're getting a DIOR or Chanel. Ryan did mention the WQ dev by name in the same interview so maybe there is some synergy there?

What I hope happens is the church actually starts the Cascade and/or builds residential in the Woolen Mills space. They have been deferential to other builders in the past but since a lot of the other residential devs have stalled due to the interest rates, I hope they help our market through by starting theirs. They have the pockets to do that like they did with City Creek during the recession. There are obviously different barriers to building, but we're getting the same result.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

Utah Woolen Mills:

I wonder if they could renovate it. It’s a decent looking building. I can’t imagine there is structural damage so bad it necessitates destruction. I’m thinking a rehab similar to paragon station but bigger.