Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster
I disagree. Im a conservative so its not blinded by political ideology at all.
There isnt nuance to this.
Are there bad guys on both sides? Sure. Is a protest by KKK, Nazi's and White Nationalists the time to discuss the bad guys on the left? Not remotely.
Watching James Woods desperately search the internet for examples of bad behavior by counter protestors and leftists as if that somehow excuses people marching with Nazi flags is hilariously sad.
When the disagreement is reasonable, we can talk nuance. We can talk about reverse racism and things of that nature. When it's Nazi's, it isnt nuance. it isnt right vs left. Its right vs wrong. And there is only one side. Period.
The alt right are so scared of their position being overwhelmed by reasonable center-right people moving more center or *gasp* left, that they are trying to shout down the condemnation using noise and confusion.
Its the "yeah but" argument. Are the nazi's and KKK bad? Yeah but...look at this black lefty punching a guy. Are white nationals disgraceful? Yeah but...look at this lefty saying cops should be killed.
That is exactly what Trump did. Actually Trump was even less nuanced because he's far stupider than most people. Its egregious.
Its hard to have an intelligent discussion with someone who equates removing a statue of Robert Lee with tearing down a statue of Washington. Is there a time and place for a nuanced discussion? Sure. is it when the Lee statue is surrounded by bigots waving Nazi flags? Um, no.
I try to avoid heavy politics because it never results in quality discussion.
But seriously. Im pretty Right Wing. This isnt right vs left. Not at all. Right vs Wrong. Period.
Too many "rights" holding onto the rope playing an unwinnable game of tug of war. As more and more people let go, the alt right holds on tigher trying to distract everyone else. Just give up. Stop trying to pull everyone into the muck. This crap isnt "right wing" at all. its not conservative values. Its gross. Its a mutation of right wing.
Anyway...
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I'm not sure I disagree with any of this, nor that it directly addressed what I was saying... it's decently removed from what I was saying.
Except that it is nuanced, because although it is right vs wrong, everyone is so quick to throw labels around that a lot of the right wing get lumped in with the "wrong" extremists wrapping themselves in confederate flags and taking racist action. I was simply saying there is a straw man series of consequences that could be worse for someone on the right wing. I'm thinking beyond right and wrong, to of the underlying social/political current here, and how it shapes how everyone behaves or perceives the opposites "wings" going forward... that's my concern as someone right of centre.
It is not a "yeah but" for me, especially with Nazis... a "but" can come off as justification, and that's something I tried to be careful about in my post. Hence, nuance. You may be speaking towards more, but atleast for my post it wasn't supposed to be a "but". I have to strongly distance myself from that.
It's a "yes and". Maybe I could have said it better.
I'm no fan of the alt-right, which, like others, I initially assumed to be more of an unapologetic, uncensored right, before the real ugly core started showing more clearly. Like you, I agree that it is a mutation of right wing that morons have gotten a hold of.
However, the word "right" is in alt-right, and a careless game of word association can suddenly make a reasonable right winger look much worse, because of
1) radical racists
2) unracist but provocateur alt-righters
3) opportunistic radical leftists
People with agendas are happy to take anyone down this path until they arrive at "Nazi", or even skip straight to it. We've all seen an instance or two where a conservative may have shown concern to Trudeau's initial 20,000+ refugee welcome program suring the election only to be instantly declared xenophobic or worse.
If it swings the other way, someone could be called communist but instead of the horrors of Stalin, China, or old East Germany, an arts student waves a Che Gueverra flag to a crowd of cheers.
The other consideration is the audience. James Woods? Do Canadians take him seriously? Milo is HUGE down south, but aside from a few yahoos, up here? While there absolutely are right wing moron counterparts to those on the left, they are further removed from the status quo, in my opinion.
In my opinion, the status quo leans socialist, and towards identity, with little regard to freedom of expression or belief... something that ultimately, still gets strong support from crazy groups like Antifa. So I don't see nearly as much emphasis on their wrongdoing in mainstream media as that of some of the right wingers, because the right has been shouted down as racist before anyone could determine if that was true.
So what we end up with us violence, and the majority, without thinking or recognizing the hypocrisy, says "they had it coming". Not that they're wrong, either...
So yeah, I tried to make some sense beyond the obvious (and clear) right/wrong matters; those are clear. I was speaking to wear Canada leans and how that shapes perceptions based on people's tendencies and the nonsense going on around us these days.
Again, not including Charlottsville in my points. Because that's clearer than day how wrong that is.