How Winnipeggers View Themselves

[CCF]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

Ugh, it's not the "can do" attitude that is the issue, and I will admit that both Calgary and Edmonton have this more than Winnipeg. It's the "we are closer to the mountains, have lots of oil and are a "world class" , so that automatically makes us better than you" attitude that stinks. Seriously, Calgary is now worse than Toronto for this Holier than Thou, Centre of the Universe attitude. So I'll state this for the second time for clarification: It's not the actual city that annoys me; it's the citizens.

Hope this helps you to better understand my point of view.

Not trying to be a pest, but what's the difference between that and when you guys speak of Manitoba's "world class" beaches and lakes?

[IntotheWest]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

Ugh, it's not the "can do" attitude that is the issue, and I will admit that both Calgary and Edmonton have this more than Winnipeg. It's the "we are closer to the mountains, have lots of oil and are a "world class" , so that automatically makes us better than you" attitude that stinks. Seriously, Calgary is now worse than Toronto for this Holier than Thou, Centre of the Universe attitude. So I'll state this for the second time for clarification: It's not the actual city that annoys me; it's the citizens.

Hope this helps you to better understand my point of view.

Well, no it doesn't really help...since that's who (Calgary citizens) I was previously defending. I will agree that there are those Calgarians that will poke fun at Sask and MB, but in my experience, they seem to number few - not every citizen like you seem to make it out. I understand your experience has been different, but I've lived here now 8 years. There are those that will defend living in the "outpost" and "redneck" Calgary to those from the US, Vancouver, and Toronto with the usual statements you mention above...but, again its usually in defense.

EDIT: Actually, I was just defending living in "sprawly Calgary" last summer to my mom's neighbour in Winnipeg! Goes both ways I guess...

Calgarians are definitely proud of the accomplishments here - most successes here have grassroots support (best success example here are the Stampede, and Olympics), and never felt like we just "deserve" it...unlike a few other cities I can name. This is no different than the grassroots support and pride Winnipegers felt with the Pan-Am games. I don't know anyone (outside of some of the idiotic posts on these types of forums) that say "Ha, we had the Olympics - you suck Winnipeg!?"...is that what you mean?

Oil has definitely helped - but, I think Albertans are generally aware of being lucky to have oil, yet aware of the impact of it (Climate Change).

As for worse than TO, have you actually lived/worked in TO? Calgarians (in general again), are far, far off from the standard TO attitude. Even my most educated colleagues in the TO area have little understanding, or respect for Calgary - or a lot of other places in Canada...it's still part of the reason people continue to have a love/hate relationship with TO (personally, I like the city...but wouldn't live there).

And if you are considering working/living in BC, I hope one of those places isn't the Lower Mainland - because they truly can't smell anything (a.k.a. "The Tropics of Canada" more than a few there truly believe)...you think Calgarians brag about being close to the mountains...Heck, MOST Calgarians I know talk about how much they love Vancouver and area

[Markus41]

Originally Posted by CCF

Not trying to be a pest, but what's the difference between that and when you guys speak of Manitoba's "world class" beaches and lakes?

None. With the exception of West Edmonton Mall (which is seriously outdated) and the Stampede (which is too redneck for me), there is nothing world class about Alberta, Saskatchewan or Manitoba. I think everyone needs to understand this.

Back on topic, I guess I can understand why Winnipeggers are sometimes bitter. They were once a great and mighty city back in the day being 3rd in Canada's largest population, and have now dropped to ninth. I hope one day they can regain their former glory, if their attitudes will allow themselves to do so.

[CCF]

Originally Posted by Markus41

Stampede (which is too redneck for me)

Worst $11 I ever spent (admittance fee.)

[IntotheWest]

^To each their own. I love Stampede, and love that its part of Calgary. It is easily one of the top 2 rodeos - and for attendance per show, it is the tops. Best talent, the chucks are unique, etc...and it is easily a "World Party" event.

$11 though, you got in for cheap, or you obviously skipped out on the best part CCF (the rodeo and chucks).

Markus41 - I'd take WEM off the list, since there's about 4-5 malls larger now, but I would add Banff and Canmore to the list - though everyone's opinion of "World Class" is seemingly different. I'd also add stream and and river fishing to AB's list of "world class". The list can easily go on.

For Winnipeg/MB the lakes are definitely regarded as "world class" - the cottage country, and the fishing up north is spectacular. It's been 20 something years since I went up to Thompson area, but was immediately surprised by how many Americans make the trip up there...for fishing.

If Grand Beach and such had half the attention that Canada's largest attractions get (Niagara Falls comes to mind), it would easily rank as a "world class" beach.

Most of that "World Class" label doesn't have to do with quality...just attendance.

And I think most MBers would rather keep the beaches to themselves anyway - there's something refreshing about the lakes remaining so under-developed.


EDIT: Let me quickly add the Winnipeg Ballet, the Museum of Man and Nature for MB...Spruce Meadows (it IS the summer circuit in North America), the Badlands (Royal Tyrrell), for Alberta. The list will go on, and on...

But, I think more relevant to this discussion, is here's a ex-Winnipeger now living in Calgary boasting not only what Calgary has - but what Winnipeg does...and one Edmontonian saying nothing is world class on the prairies, and another ex-Winnipeger living in Edmonton saying he doesn't like that attitude. Do you see the problem?

[ScrappyPeg]

Originally Posted by CCF

Not trying to be a pest, but what's the difference between that and when you guys speak of Manitoba's "world class" beaches and lakes?

Manitoba lakes and beaches are pretty damn good - some have said they are world class.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by CCF

Worst $11 I ever spent (admittance fee.)

I would agree with that assessment. Its the exact same exhibition as the one in Saskatoon, Regina, Edmonton and Winnipeg... with all the thrills of standing in long lines for rides and a real live cowboy loving rodeo. Not exactly my style.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by newflyer

I would agree with that assessment. Its the exact same exhibition as the one in Saskatoon, Regina, Edmonton and Winnipeg... with all the thrills of standing in long lines for rides and a real live cowboy loving rodeo. Not exactly my style.

As an ex-Winnipegger (in Calgary now almost 7 years) I have grown to really appreciate the Stampede over the years.

I have found that Canadians from other provinces go to the Stampede ground check out the midway and rides and say "thats it?" and immediately try to compare it with the Red River Ex or the CNE in Ontario. When in reality they are checking out the ONLY thing that is unique between the other exhibitions in Canada.

The Stampede is so much more and goes deeper into the history of southern Alberta. The Rodeo, Chucks and the Grandstand Shows are events that have been happening for decades. The rodeo and ag shows have been going on since the early 1900s. When you start to appreciate the history of southern Alberta you will better understand and appreciate the Stampede.

Another thing I love about the Stampede is meeting people from all over the world that visit Calgary for that week. The international exposure and popularity is something you will never have at any of the other Canadian exhibitions.

Going to the Stampede and only checking out the rides and midway would be the equivalent of going to Rome and only walking into a restaurant, having a plate of pasta and going home.

[DAVEinEDMONTON]

Originally Posted by h0twired

As an ex-Winnipegger (in Calgary now almost 7 years) I have grown to really appreciate the Stampede over the years.

I have found that Canadians from other provinces go to the Stampede ground check out the midway and rides and say "thats it?" and immediately try to compare it with the Red River Ex or the CNE in Ontario. When in reality they are checking out the ONLY thing that is unique between the other exhibitions in Canada.

The Stampede is so much more and goes deeper into the history of southern Alberta. The Rodeo, Chucks and the Grandstand Shows are events that have been happening for decades. The rodeo and ag shows have been going on since the early 1900s. When you start to appreciate the history of southern Alberta you will better understand and appreciate the Stampede.

Another thing I love about the Stampede is meeting people from all over the world that visit Calgary for that week. The international exposure and popularity is something you will never have at any of the other Canadian exhibitions.

Going to the Stampede and only checking out the rides and midway would be the equivalent of going to Rome and only walking into a restaurant, having a plate of pasta and going home.

You can wrap up an opinion about the "Stampede" as being the be all and end all of the "Canadian exhibitions" but it is in reality just a big midway/fair like any other. Oh do not get me worng...I have been to the stampede many times and enjoyed myself. But I cannot in all seriousness consider it any better than the CNE in Toronto, the PNE in Vancouver or Klondike Days in Edmonton which happens right after the Stampede ends and also has the "Chucks" the midway, the Agriculture related shows and the pancake breakfasts etc etc... everything except for the rodeo.

And yes, it is great international exposure and interesting for those tourists who have never seen a man ride a bull before and it is great the way the whole city gets behind the event...it is a success and the marketing of the Stampede has been second to none...however...everything else in Calgary seems to take a back seat to the Stampede...many festivals come and go because no one is interested if it is not the big ole Stampede...and there lies the difference...Winnipeg should be proud of putting on a great Fringe festival...and I would much rather spend a week in Winnipeg checking out the Fringe and a little culture then a week in Calgary checking out a midway and having Stelmach pass me a pancake on the lawn of the southern provincial house lawn...

[IntotheWest]

^I don't get some of you guys on here with dismissing the Stampede as a midway, and then talk about all the other great events in Canada...you obviously have no knowledge of Stampede, the sport, or the contestants...there is NO rodeo in the world like it. None. And the 1.2-1.3 million visitors that show up? Well, 20-25,000 for the rodeo during the day, and another 25,000 for the night show adds up to 500k going for the rodeo/chucks/evening show...that's impressive. My wife and I get the same seats for showdown Sunday every year - I wouldn't miss it.

Yes, the parties around the city are why a lot of people come (a good chunk of my colleagues from TO and Van show up), and never even get on the grounds...which is what I believe HotWired was mentioning too - it's far bigger than just the awesome rodeo, and the midway is secondary. There's many other competitions centered around the western/agricultural culture (blacksmith, cattle cutting, show horses, cattle, etc), and even visual arts, clothing, etc.

And while I agree, DAVE, that Winnipegers have to be proud of the festivals (you forgot Folkorama, and Festival du Voyageur), Calgary does have more than Stampede...Spruce Meadows Masters is one of the largest jumping events in the world (you think Stampede brings in a lot of international tourists? Check this out in Sept) - and is absolutely unique in Western Canada, and for its scale in North America. Others like the Calgary International Film Fest, Lilac Festival, Carifest, Reggae, Jazz, and even the Fringe and Folk festivals here keep growing. An event like Stampede would easily headline in any city, but I wouldn't quickly rule out other festivals in Calgary...and that isn't at all to take away from the festivals in Winnipeg - as some of them I'd say are "World Class".

[CCF]

You are correct, my observation is not necessarily fair. I did not check out the rodeo, races, etc but rather just the rides themselves. This was what I was unimpressed by as it actually paled in comparison to Regina's Buffalo Days.....which kinda says something.

I didn't get full exposure to what the Stampede is....and I can't necessarily judge the event as a whole.

[IntotheWest]

^You missed out then. I haven't met anyone that has gone to those events, and actually been disappointed.

But, I am curious when you compare the midways and conclude you were "unimpressed" and "it actually paled in comparison to Regina's Buffalo Days"...what part of it? The rides? The layout? The fact it was so similar? Too crowded?

Is it North American Entertainment that brings the rides there too. I was sure it was the same across the country, but I think Conklin still tours as well...I don't ride rides, so not really familiar with them.

Not to say the Stampede is a better "midway" than Buffalo Days, I'd just find it hard to imagine that a fair that attracts a million more people could actually "pale" in comparison. I'm sure Buffalo Days is a great event though.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by IntotheWest

^You missed out then. I haven't met anyone that has gone to those events, and actually been disappointed.

But, I am curious when you compare the midways and conclude you were "unimpressed" and "it actually paled in comparison to Regina's Buffalo Days"...what part of it? The rides? The layout? The fact it was so similar? Too crowded?

Is it North American Entertainment that brings the rides there too. I was sure it was the same across the country, but I think Conklin still tours as well...I don't ride rides, so not really familiar with them.

Not to say the Stampede is a better "midway" than Buffalo Days, I'd just find it hard to imagine that a fair that attracts a million more people could actually "pale" in comparison. I'm sure Buffalo Days is a great event though.

Well, besides the whole cowboys and indians theme, of which I am not into anyways, Stampede isn't much more than Klondike Days, The Red River Ex, etc. And I have been to Stampede numerous times.

Just my opinion though.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

Well, besides the whole cowboys and indians theme, of which I am not into anyways, Stampede isn't much more than Klondike Days, The Red River Ex, etc. And I have been to Stampede numerous times.

Just my opinion though.

How is the Red River Ex any where NEAR as comparable? The Red River Ex is nothing more than a traveling carnival on a large parking lot.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by h0twired

How is the Red River Ex any where NEAR as comparable? The Red River Ex is nothing more than a traveling carnival on a large parking lot.

And the exact same thing applies to the Stampede on the stampede grounds, except for the the chuckwagons, people throwing pies at their premier, and all the wannabe cowboys running around trying to act all western; you can see right through them

Like I said, not my cup of tea. However I didn't say that the Ex was any better. I just am not a big fan of exhibitions anymore, no matter how "world class" people claim they are.

Anyways, this has gone waaayyy off track, so I'll attempt to put it back on track. Once things get rolling in a big way, and we get the losers who run the city out of City Hall and replace them with competent politicians, I think this will be the beginning of a new Winnipeg and new self-confidence among Winnipeggers.

[IntotheWest]

^Greco, it seems that some one always brings it around to trash-talking Calgary...that's how it gets way off topic.

Making comments like "except for the the chuckwagons, people throwing pies at their premier, and all the wannabe cowboys running around trying to act all western; you can see right through them" is going to result in some remarks coming back.

The "except for" is a HUGE part of what makes the Stampede the Stampede. Most folks "running around trying to act all western" aren't doing it because they think they're cowboys - they're doing it to get in the spirit of the show. When I was travelling back and forth to Vancouver every week, I loved seeing all the South Koreanns on the flights (roughly 3/4's were Asian tourists) with huge smiles on their faces and White Smithbilt-looking hats on their heads. It is a huge reason why the Stampede is what it is.

And if you've been to Stampede yourself, you may also realize that it consumes the whole city - not just the grounds (for the record, the "people throwing pies at their premier" happened at a breakfast OFF the grounds for example).

It doesn't hurt that its listed as one of the "World Party's" in Rough Guides book, or Hollywood stars and scripts talk it up...acknowledgement I'm pretty sure the other "exhibitions" probably don't get.

[IntotheWest]

Anyways, these "What's wrong with Winnipeg" threads keep popping up every couple months it seems, and the same discussion takes place, with the real Winnipegers losing interest in the thread pretty quickly.

The bottom line, is there's a large difference in how the young folks want to view Winnipeg (and set a more optimistic direction for the city), and how the older folks already view the city and want to keep status quo. I don't imagine ANY politician will change the older populations mind.

I think the discussion that Dave Angus had described on the "Winnipeg - of interest" thread is a perfect example of what really needs to take place...but with actual action items that come out of it.

[CCF]

Originally Posted by IntotheWest

^You missed out then. I haven't met anyone that has gone to those events, and actually been disappointed.

But, I am curious when you compare the midways and conclude you were "unimpressed" and "it actually paled in comparison to Regina's Buffalo Days"...what part of it? The rides? The layout? The fact it was so similar? Too crowded?

Is it North American Entertainment that brings the rides there too. I was sure it was the same across the country, but I think Conklin still tours as well...I don't ride rides, so not really familiar with them.

Not to say the Stampede is a better "midway" than Buffalo Days, I'd just find it hard to imagine that a fair that attracts a million more people could actually "pale" in comparison. I'm sure Buffalo Days is a great event though.

The rides I found less than spectacular. When I went, there were very few rides in comparison to what I have seen at Buffalo Days.

But you are right, I did miss out....I'll have to try the full Stampede experience one year.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by IntotheWest

^Greco, it seems that some one always brings it around to trash-talking Calgary...that's how it gets way off topic.

Making comments like "except for the the chuckwagons, people throwing pies at their premier, and all the wannabe cowboys running around trying to act all western; you can see right through them" is going to result in some remarks coming back.

The "except for" is a HUGE part of what makes the Stampede the Stampede. Most folks "running around trying to act all western" aren't doing it because they think they're cowboys - they're doing it to get in the spirit of the show. When I was travelling back and forth to Vancouver every week, I loved seeing all the South Koreanns on the flights (roughly 3/4's were Asian tourists) with huge smiles on their faces and White Smithbilt-looking hats on their heads. It is a huge reason why the Stampede is what it is.

And if you've been to Stampede yourself, you may also realize that it consumes the whole city - not just the grounds (for the record, the "people throwing pies at their premier" happened at a breakfast OFF the grounds for example).

It doesn't hurt that its listed as one of the "World Party's" in Rough Guides book, or Hollywood stars and scripts talk it up...acknowledgement I'm pretty sure the other "exhibitions" probably don't get.

Calgary Stampede, world class, greatest thing on the planet, all the asians love it, blah blah blah.........

Again, as I told you, Stampede isn't that great. It's good, but not great; same goes for the Red River Ex as well as any other kind of exhibition. Not my bag of tag. So since I started this (mostly), I'll put a stop to it right now.

We all have our opinions. Now lets move on..........................

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

Calgary Stampede, world class, greatest thing on the planet, all the asians love it, blah blah blah.........

Again, as I told you, Stampede isn't that great. It's good, but not great; same goes for the Red River Ex as well as any other kind of exhibition. Not my bag of tag. So since I started this (mostly), I'll put a stop to it right now.

We all have our opinions. Now lets move on..........................

Red River Ex Attendance - 170,000
Calgary Stampede Attendance - 1,260,000

Both events are 10 days long.

The Red River Ex is a parking lot carnival.

The Calgary Stampede has a carnival... but it also has a world class Rodeo, Chuckwagon Races, Grandstand Show, nightly fireworks, pancake breakfasts all over town, a parade where most workers are given the morning off, non-stop corporate parties and social events, non-stop concerts and entertainment throughout the city and an entire city that celebrates western heritage and culture along with thousands of tourists who pour into the city filling the hotels for the week.

If you didn't drive out to the Downs in Winnipeg you would have no idea the Red River Ex was even on.

Since you wanted to stop this... okay. Consider it over and we can move on.