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  #241  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2007, 5:31 PM
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I really, really hate the design of this building. Right up there aesthetically with the Palace of the Soviets in Kaliningrad. Louisville has my deepest sympathies.

*sorry just being honest..this thing is just butt ugly to me.
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  #242  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2007, 8:46 PM
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^ I don't like it either. I am really hoping it looks better than it does in the renderings. Louisville is a great city that deserves a tall, quality tower.
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  #243  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 3:50 AM
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I'm a West Michigander at heart and have lived in Chicago for the last six years. Louisville has been my planned destination to settle down in. When I heard they were building a new skyscraper, I thought "Cool, things are developing." When I actually saw it I thought, "Dear God...Artistry!" Everyone I've shown the picture to has had the same reaction: "Wow, that is the future!"

Too bad some are thinking backward. Afraid to actually look ahead in a visionary way.

Like Millennium Park in Chicago, this is pure forward thinking. Not just a building, but something upon which to say, "Wow, this IS the future!"
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  #244  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 4:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddyredd View Post
I'm a West Michigander at heart and have lived in Chicago for the last six years. Louisville has been my planned destination to settle down in. When I heard they were building a new skyscraper, I thought "Cool, things are developing." When I actually saw it I thought, "Dear God...Artistry!" Everyone I've shown the picture to has had the same reaction: "Wow, that is the future!"

Too bad some are thinking backward. Afraid to actually look ahead in a visionary way.

Like Millennium Park in Chicago, this is pure forward thinking. Not just a building, but something upon which to say, "Wow, this IS the future!"
I'm only half joking when I say that the future looks like a mutant wearing the skin of the 1960s.

I'm not afraid to look ahead, I'm disgusted by what I see.Those are different...

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  #245  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 4:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddyredd View Post
I'm a West Michigander at heart and have lived in Chicago for the last six years. Louisville has been my planned destination to settle down in. When I heard they were building a new skyscraper, I thought "Cool, things are developing." When I actually saw it I thought, "Dear God...Artistry!" Everyone I've shown the picture to has had the same reaction: "Wow, that is the future!"

Too bad some are thinking backward. Afraid to actually look ahead in a visionary way.

Like Millennium Park in Chicago, this is pure forward thinking. Not just a building, but something upon which to say, "Wow, this IS the future!"
Um, well, the reason I don't see this as the future, is because the design is a failed concept of the past, in my opinion. Regardless though, to say that a person is "backwards" because they don't like the design of one particular skyscraper proposal is a bit of a stretch.
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  #246  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 4:48 PM
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this is the most horrifying skyscraper proposal I've ever seen
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  #247  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 4:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BnaBreaker View Post
Regardless though, to say that a person is "backwards" because they don't like the design of one particular skyscraper proposal is a bit of a stretch.
absolutely. i fully disagree with your opinion on this proposal as i find it to be very exciting and interesting, but i can also respect your opinion of it at the same time. because we're not going to convince each other of our respective viewpoints on this project, all that's left in such situations is to agree to disagree, not attack those with a differing opinion.

too many people on this forum seem to have a very difficult time with agreeing to disagree when it comes to subjective matters of taste.
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  #248  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 5:23 PM
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FYI it's not a "proposal" anymore. Ground was broken on this skyscraper last month..
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  #249  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 5:44 PM
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^ ceremonial ground-breakings do not constitute official construction for the definition purposes of this forum. once some form of proper foundation work gets underway (caisson drilling, pile driving, permanent load-bearing retaining walls, etc), then it will be moved to the construction forum.
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  #250  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 7:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^ ceremonial ground-breakings do not constitute official construction for the definition purposes of this forum. once some form of proper foundation work gets underway (caisson drilling, pile driving, permanent load-bearing retaining walls, etc), then it will be moved to the construction forum.
I agree exactly, ground breakings and site clearing only mean just that - the site has been cleared. Quite often this can lead to the dreaded project falling apart and the glorious surface parking lot apears. Foundation work definately needs to have started to be under construction in my opinion.

...and for my 2 cents of an opinion on this building, i have tried and tried to be open and like it but.....
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  #251  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 9:23 PM
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absolutely. i fully disagree with your opinion on this proposal as i find it to be very exciting and interesting, but i can also respect your opinion of it at the same time. because we're not going to convince each other of our respective viewpoints on this project, all that's left in such situations is to agree to disagree, not attack those with a differing opinion.

too many people on this forum seem to have a very difficult time with agreeing to disagree when it comes to subjective matters of taste.
Agreed. And to be clear, I absolutely love Louisville, and I think that this complex will do wonders for the downtown area. I just don't like the way the structure itself is designed.
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  #252  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2007, 2:04 AM
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Hey BnaBreaker, I'm Mad as hell also, what for I don't really know...

I'm really respect your opinnion. It's so easy to just say, "This is butt ugly, blah blah" but atleast you explained a little more as to why. For some reason I really like it, not because I think it looks pretty, but b/c there is just something Louisville about it. I just love the fact that people will see this building and remember Louisville (if they didn't have anything already) by. I like MP b/c it is basically nothing but a bunch of 70's boxes, such a plain dynamic, thrown into something building's aren't supposed to do, placed in ways building's usually aren't, and to get all of that space into the plot that it occupies makes this totally unique and IMO, a really good thing for Louisville, in all ways. Maybe I'm crazy! But I love it.
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  #253  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2007, 5:07 AM
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Hey BnaBreaker, I'm Mad as hell also, what for I don't really know...

I'm really respect your opinnion. It's so easy to just say, "This is butt ugly, blah blah" but atleast you explained a little more as to why. For some reason I really like it, not because I think it looks pretty, but b/c there is just something Louisville about it. I just love the fact that people will see this building and remember Louisville (if they didn't have anything already) by. I like MP b/c it is basically nothing but a bunch of 70's boxes, such a plain dynamic, thrown into something building's aren't supposed to do, placed in ways building's usually aren't, and to get all of that space into the plot that it occupies makes this totally unique and IMO, a really good thing for Louisville, in all ways. Maybe I'm crazy! But I love it.
You're as crazy for liking it as I am backwards for disliking it. In other words, we all just have different preferences. I actually dislike it for the same reason you like it. lol
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  #254  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2007, 8:30 PM
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it's going to be great. i understand the sentiment of many that dislike this building. it is oddly proportioned. but in terms of the experience, the building will be very significant. this is no ren cen. the program is geared toward how people use this building and not as some symbol or formulaic, generated pretty building.

while i like towers like comcast or signature or w=a in chicago (as a few significant examples) they lack the design philosophy of buildings like this or aqua in chicago. in these instances, the form of the building is determined through an in-depth study of usage or views or sound, etc. existing conditions of the site shape the tower, it is up to the architects to then refine and manipulate the form to accomplish new, discovered effects. it may seem ramshackle and primarily aimed at saying "f*** you" to traditional form, but the intent is very well informed. you can watch the video or look up joshua prince-ramus's developmental drawings for the project.

this is the language of architecture that will advance the american understanding of architecture. with all the technological tools and intellectual wealth of this nation, it would be a shame to simply waste all of those on something elegant, but essentially recycled. we constantly seek to research and charge forward in technology, in art, in economy, etc. so why must architecture be something determined by principles developed decades ago?
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  #255  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2007, 11:42 PM
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I can;t wait to see it go up, it's gonna be poetry in motion!
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  #256  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 3:48 AM
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Sounds like another delay

courier-journal.com > Local News
Tuesday, November 20, 2007
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UPDATED: 9:55 PM
Museum Plaza seeks $45 million bond issue
By Dan Klepal and Marcus Green
The Courier-Journal



Louisville Metro Government will be asked to issue $45 million in bonds to jumpstart construction of the Museum Plaza project, a proposal that surprised some Metro Council members today.

The money would be used to help pay for about $139 million in public improvements related to the $490 million project, including new floodwalls, lighting and a public plaza.

A 62-story skyscraper — the heart of the project — is being privately financed.

Some council members said they were told only recently that metro government would have to carry debt on the public improvements.

"This merits serious discussion," said Hal Heiner, R-19th District, who spoke with Museum Plaza developers about the financing plan several weeks ago.

But a spokesman for Mayor Jerry Abramson said the city has always expected to cover some of the costs, even if the idea of financing them through city-backed bonds wasn't discussed publicly.

"We've known from the beginning of the project that the city would have a role to play in financing the public infrastructure, but it hadn't been quantified. It was just talked about in the abstract," said Chad Carlton, an Abramson spokesman. "We are making a business decision that this is an economic project important enough to put dollars behind."

Developers say the city bond money, negotiated with Abramson's administration, is a relatively small part of paying for the complex. They say the bonds are necessary for the project to proceed and will be paid off over three decades through future tax revenue generated by the project.

Council member David Tandy, whose downtown district includes the Museum Plaza site, is sponsoring an ordinance that would authorize a $130 million bond issue for the project. The measure was introduced at today's council meeting.

Tandy, D-4th, said he was briefed on the additional need for city funding last week.

"I'm not overly concerned. Relatively speaking, the number doesn't scare me," he said, referring to the proposed bond issue. "I'm confident that money will come back to us."

Last month officials broke ground on the project, at Seventh Street and River Road. Plans call for the skyscraper to include lofts, condos, a contemporary art center, office and retail space and a Westin hotel.

Museum Plaza will be financed in several ways, including private sources to cover the buildings and bonds to pay for the public improvements. The debt on the public portions will be paid through new taxes generated at the site as part of a tax increment financing, or TIF, district.

The district would allow developers to recapture some of the taxes generated at Museum Plaza, including room taxes from the hotel, and use them to pay off debt for the public infrastructure improvements.

The bulk of the improvements would be covered by the $130 million in bonds issued by the council and guaranteed by revenues from the tax district. The city's credit rating would not be affected, and it would not be liable for the debt.

But developers will be able to use only about $75 million in proceeds from that bond issue because they'll need to set aside money for expenses, such as paying debt until the district starts to generate revenue after Museum Plaza opens in 2010.

To make up the difference, the city would cover $45 million and the developers would pitch in $25 million.

Council member Kelly Downard said he had thought that the city's only financial stake in the project would be the revenue from the tax district and that local government wouldn't be asked to guarantee bonds, which is money that couldn't be borrowed for other purposes.

"I am not aware of that," said Downard, R-16th. "If that's the case, I wonder where the discussion has been."

Craig Greenberg, a Louisville attorney and one of four Museum Plaza investors, said developers have been crafting financing details with Abramson's administration for about a year, but they were only finalized last week.

"It has always been contemplated in those discussions that a portion of the TIF bonds are enhanced with the city's credit," he said.

Greenberg and Bruce Traughber, Louisville's economic development director, said the city's role in issuing bonds for Museum Plaza is similar to how it helped finance the downtown Marriott hotel.

The city issued $46.5 million in bonds for that project, and a tax-increment financing district at the site is paying annual debt on the bonds.

If the Museum Plaza district meets projections, Traughber said, the city would pay off its $45 million investment and receive an estimated $15 million in interest over the 30-year life of the taxing district.

"So our contribution toward one of the outstanding architectural feats in the world would be $1 million a year or less," he said.

Reporter Dan Klepal can be reached at (502) 582-4475.

Reporter Marcus Green can be reached at (502) 582-4675.
Hopefully this doesn't get delayed by metro council.
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  #257  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 3:58 AM
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It won't.
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  #258  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2007, 11:28 PM
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move this to "under construction" already

museum Plaza infrastructure bonds move forward

By Marcus Green
magreen@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal



Museum Plaza, the $490 million skyscraper complex planned for Seventh Street and River Road, passed a key hurdle today as a Metro Council panel unanimously approved a measure allowing the issuance of $130 million in bonds to pay for infrastructure at the site.

The council’s labor and economic development committee also agreed on the basic terms of a development agreement outlining how developers will build the project, which began construction last month.

The measure now heads to the full council, which could consider it as early as next week.

The committee did not consider a separate measure that would ask Louisville Metro Government to issue $45 million in bonds to jumpstart construction of the Museum Plaza project, a proposal some council members had not expected.

The money at issue today would be used to help pay for about $139 million in public improvements related to the project, including new floodwalls, lighting and a public plaza.

Reporter Marcus Green can be reached at (502) 582-4675.
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/...EWS01/71129053
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  #259  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2007, 4:29 AM
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lol ^^^ that's pretty hard to argue with.
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  #260  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2007, 5:07 AM
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Are cassions being drilled? Are piles being driven? If not, then its still not UC. Now if they are relocating utilities then this can be moved to site prep!
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