Mueller Redevelopment Update Thread

[KevinFromTexas]

It would have to depend on where those 300 footers went. The streets at Mueller are still considerably wide. The widths of most of the streets in downtown, and this includes the sidewalk width since the correct term is "right-of-way" which includes both the street pavement and sidewalks - is 80 feet. Only Congress Avenue is wider at 120 feet. Most of the streets at Mueller appear to be 50 feet. Those include the townhome and single family sections. Some of the single family streets are even quite a bit less - 16 feet, which makes me wonder how the 10 foot wide firetrucks get down those streets. Even my street is 30 feet wide in South Austin. Some of the other streets in Mueller where the bigger buildings are and near the retail are 80 to 100 feet wide. That's where I would expect taller buildings could go.

[lonewolf]

Originally Posted by Global

As a Mueller resident, I can tell you while I love dense urban environments, we do not need 300+ ft towers in Mueller, and it's not the NIMBY reason you think. If you were to live here for a week you'd understand why very quickly. In both the downtown areas of Austin and in the suburban areas of Austin, the city streets are much wider than in Mueller. It's not just a matter of traffic, but buildings feel much closer to one another here than in downtown.

I think what we have now is a good compromise between density and a livable scale.

your feelings are backed up by centuries of urban design, countless polls of urban residents and also relocation statistics from when people were forced to live in their own communities(2020)

the thought that building >300' are needed for density are a complete meme. visit tokyo or mexico city. people want want to walk in neighborhoods where they can see the sky, where shadows don't swallow entire campuses and tall buildings and where they can shop everywhere.

too much urban design the past 100 years has optimized for the postcard, or the opening film credits, and not the family or the young couple walking at night. the "micro village" or "urban village" MUD trend is a return to our roots as humans

https://twitter.com/wrathofgnon/stat...933236736?s=20

[Global]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

It would have to depend on where those 300 footers went. The streets at Mueller are still considerably wide. The widths of most of the streets in downtown, and this includes the sidewalk width since the correct term is "right-of-way" which includes both the street pavement and sidewalks - is 80 feet. Only Congress Avenue is wider at 120 feet. Most of the streets at Mueller appear to be 50 feet. Those include the townhome and single family sections. Some of the single family streets are even quite a bit less - 16 feet, which makes me wonder how the 10 foot wide firetrucks get down those streets. Even my street is 30 feet wide in South Austin. Some of the other streets in Mueller where the bigger buildings are and near the retail are 80 to 100 feet wide. That's where I would expect taller buildings could go.

I went outside and measured my street. My street measures 28 ft wide. However, unlike many suburbs, there are cars parked on both sides of the street all the time, so the actual usable street width for cars to get through is obviously much less.

[enragedcamel]

Originally Posted by lonewolf

your feelings are backed up by centuries of urban design, countless polls of urban residents and also relocation statistics from when people were forced to live in their own communities(2020)

the thought that building >300' are needed for density are a complete meme. visit tokyo or mexico city. people want want to walk in neighborhoods where they can see the sky, where shadows don't swallow entire campuses and tall buildings and where they can shop everywhere.

too much urban design the past 100 years has optimized for the postcard, or the opening film credits, and not the family or the young couple walking at night. the "micro village" or "urban village" MUD trend is a return to our roots as humans

https://twitter.com/wrathofgnon/stat...933236736?s=20

You bring up walkability, but Manhattan, one of the densest urban cores in the world, is also the most walkable urban area in the United States.

"Being able to see the sky" seems like an arbitrary and subjective measure.

[lonewolf]

Originally Posted by enragedcamel

You bring up walkability, but Manhattan, one of the densest urban cores in the world, is also the most walkable urban area in the United States.

"Being able to see the sky" seems like an arbitrary and subjective measure.

manhattan is a dumpster fire. as soon as commerce shut down people bailed because there are no reasons to stay there. resettled to less dense environments across the country.

don't take my word for it, look up rental/owning price patterns, corporate relos, flurry of articles about the effects of shutdown.

walkability (albeit very important) is only one piece of the puzzle.

there are cities in europe that shut down commerce that boast world class density. why did those cities stay full?

[chinchaaa]

Originally Posted by lonewolf

manhattan is a dumpster fire. as soon as commerce shut down people bailed because there are no reasons to stay there. resettled to less dense environments across the country.

That’s not really fair. People left because the rent is expensive and they were stuck inside, not able to fully utilize all of the amazing things New York offers.

[lonewolf]

Originally Posted by chinchaaa

That’s not really fair. People left because the rent is expensive and they were stuck inside, not able to fully utilize all of the amazing things New York offers.

i will admit it is a multivariable equation but...

why didn't they leave toronto or paris? or berlin or london? those are all dense, expensive cities that had commerce shut down

i think looking at how these cities were designed offers clues, when commerce goes, your city needs a "beating heart" to keep it going. I think this consists of distinct neighborhoods, walkability, exposure to fractal architecture and/or nature, natural light. else when commerce goes...people go. ever been to a ghost town?

i'm not projecting an apocalypse for manhattan/downtown SF(however I do think they will be in a rut for a while). i'm pointing out that on a long timeline they are novel in their urban design and architecture and there may need to be some reexamining in our desire to print these high rises and financial districts

[enragedcamel]

Originally Posted by lonewolf

why didn't they leave toronto or paris? or berlin or london? those are all dense, expensive cities that had commerce shut down

How do you know they haven't left those cities too?

The only reason you've read about SF and Manhattan is because they're extraordinarily expensive places to live — not just housing prices but also taxes.

[H2O]

Originally Posted by lonewolf

i will admit it is a multivariable equation but...

why didn't they leave toronto or paris? or berlin or london? those are all dense, expensive cities that had commerce shut down

i think looking at how these cities were designed offers clues, when commerce goes, your city needs a "beating heart" to keep it going. I think this consists of distinct neighborhoods, walkability, exposure to fractal architecture and/or nature, natural light. else when commerce goes...people go. ever been to a ghost town?

i'm not projecting an apocalypse for manhattan/downtown SF(however I do think they will be in a rut for a while). i'm pointing out that on a long timeline they are novel in their urban design and architecture and there may need to be some reexamining in our desire to print these high rises and financial districts

There are many parts of NYC that more closely resemble your description of Paris or Toronto than Manhattan, and Toronto's CBD (and some other high density neighborhoods) are more like Manhattan. Even parts of Paris (La Defense) more closely resemble Manhattan.

I get what you are saying, and there was a time (after touring Europe) when I was pro mid-rise and anti high-rise myself, but there is a place for both forms in our cities.

The thing that struck me the most after my first visit to NYC (all in Manhattan) was how green it actually was. The popular image was a dirty concrete jungle. I was surprised how livable it felt. This was back in the 1980s when it was significantly dirtier and crime ridden than it is today.

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by H2O

There are many parts of NYC that more closely resemble your description of Paris or Toronto than Manhattan, and Toronto's CBD (and some other high density neighborhoods) are more like Manhattan. Even parts of Paris (La Defense) more closely resemble Manhattan.

I get what you are saying, and there was a time (after touring Europe) when I was pro mid-rise and anti high-rise myself, but there is a place for both forms in our cities.

The thing that struck me the most after my first visit to NYC (all in Manhattan) was how green it actually was. The popular image was a dirty concrete jungle. I was surprised how livable it felt. This was back in the 1980s when it was significantly dirtier and crime ridden than it is today.

I spent many a weekend there in the 70s when it was a dirty concrete jungle. Ten years later and with the right leadership, Mayor Koch, NYC did in fact become safer and cleaner. But before he took office, you should have seen Brooklyn and the Bronx. Block after block of burnt out buildings in Brooklyn, and heck, you needed an armed escort to get from your car to Yankee Stadium during night games. I don't get to Mueller that often, but when I do go, I prefer Dos Equis. And the lack of highrises. I had to make deposits at the Wells Fargo there and it seemed a bit trafficky but walkable. I suppose I need to do another drive through to see if I still get confused with the layout. The street grids obviously had to conform to the old airport boundaries so there are numerous angles to traverse especially where residential meets commercial.

[LoneStarMike]

Mueller to add medical office building -
Developers plan recession-proof project near Dell Children's Medical Center

Catellus Corp. and Gemdale USA Corp. announced they will develop a five-story, 130,000-square-foot medical office building near Dell Children’s Medical Center and the administrative offices of Ascension Seton.

Gemdale has yet to begin pre-leasing, meaning there aren’t any tenants lined up to fill the office space. Groundbreaking is tentatively scheduled for the end of the second quarter or beginning of the third quarter, though the timeline has not been finalized.

Construction, once it begins, is expected to take a little more than one year to complete. Both Catellus and Gemdale declined to reveal the cost of the project.

Further down (not related to this particular project:

Also expected to deliver by the end of 2021 in Mueller: Austin Energy’s four-story, 275,000-square-foot headquarters; a six-story, 235,000-square-foot office project developed by Shorenstein; a five-story, 120-room boutique hotel by Origin (developed by Thrash Group); and an AMLI 406-unit apartment community.

And there is an additional project on tap next to one of the most iconic spots in Mueller: the old air control tower. Paperwork was filed with the city of Austin on Dec. 20 for what's being called the "Mueller Tower Multi-family" project, though details are minimal so far. The address listed on the paperwork is 3901 Berkman Drive. A Catellus representative confirmed a deal for any multifamily development has not been finalized.

[Syndic]

It's about time that a development happen around the control tower. That lot has been weirdly empty for so long.

With the Great Recession and COVID, Mueller's development has spanned over 1/3rd of my life. It's sooo slow. But maybe that means it's developing more organically than it otherwise would have.

[clubtokyo]

It is slow but when it all built out I think its a really unique planned project for a Texas city.

[Urbannizer]

Alpha Building





Origin Hotel



AMLI Branch Park



Branch Park



Texas Mutual HQ

[clubtokyo]

That new hotel and apt should add a lot of new foot traffic.

[H2O]

Originally Posted by Syndic

It's about time that a development happen around the control tower. That lot has been weirdly empty for so long.

With the Great Recession and COVID, Mueller's development has spanned over 1/3rd of my life. It's sooo slow. But maybe that means it's developing more organically than it otherwise would have.

It was always planned to be a 20 year build out and it is pretty much right on track.

[H2O]

Growth continues in Austin's Mueller neighborhood with 200-unit condo project

This one will have some amazing views from the upper levels, with the big roundabout oak and Lake Park in the foreground and the UT to Downtown skyline on the horizon.





https://www.statesman.com/story/busi...ne/6948088002/

[Urbannizer]

https://patch.com/texas/downtownaust...munity-mueller

AUSTIN, TX — A national developer and builder plans to build a mixed-use multifamily community near Austin's historic Robert Mueller Municipal Airport.

Ryan Companies US, Inc., announced Thursday it will build a 350-unit, mixed-use, multifamily community in the Mueller neighborhood adjacent to the former airport’s iconic control tower structure.

The project will consist of two mid-rise, three- to five-story buildings with diverse exterior architectural elements and will be bound by Berkman, Sorin, Vaughan and McCurdy streets next to Wildflower Terrace Senior Apartments. It is expected to break ground later this year.

[Syndic]

Eyyyyy finally!

Where's the other use, though? I see only one (residential). Maybe the retail is closer to the tower?

[lonewolf]

these MUDs are spreading like wildfire around here. the first one to go carless will win