Winnipeg Deconstruction

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

their soup ... took it today sorry for the crapy shot... i was freezing and hungry and my lens was foging up lol

I like how the owner misspells "sause".

[ReginaGuy]

Originally Posted by rgalston

Looking south on Main from William Ave, 1877

I don't get it. Whats the importance of saving this boarded up crack house?

I thought I'd never say it, but that lot would look better as a parking lot. At least people don't look at parking lots and immediately lock the doors in their car

or are you guys talking about a different building?

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by ReginaGuy

I don't get it. Whats the importance of saving this boarded up crack house?

I thought I'd never say it, but that lot would look better as a parking lot. At least people don't look at parking lots and immediately lock the doors in their car

or are you guys talking about a different building?

No, that's the one.

Part of it, to be fair, is that this is a very old building, even for Winnipeg which is old for the west. So it does have some historic value. I think it's one of the older extant buildings in the city.

Part of it, is that in general, folks on these boards hate the concept of anyone driving a car into downtown for work (or seemingly any other use). I've never seen such raw hatred towards parking as I have here - and it's not just surface lots. Parkades get the same eggs thrown at them. It's simply a pure, unadulterated hate on cars.

And of course, part of it is the mentality that has resulted in a boarded up Portage Avenue in many places, and the continued decay of Main Street - you cannot tear anything down in Winnipeg, ever. There's a protectionist, anti-progress streak running through some people that's positively frightening. This is changing, but there are still some hangers-on to the philosphy of "EVERYTHING is a heritage building and I'll chain myself around it to save it, by god!".

You're seeing the results here - full acknowledgement of the use of parking in the area, and yet the demand for more parking is just inconceivable to some people. It's a very strange sort of doublethink.

Personally, I think it's too bad that this house wasn't saved decades ago, before it turned into the piece of crap that it seems to be today. Perhaps the interior is nicer, and a good restoration would help, but yeah - I don't see what there is to "protect" here anymore. This is a bit of hyperbole, because I don't really think this building is THAT bad (it's just an eyesore), but there are many occasions where parking lots are better than the alternative. Calgary had a pretty good ghetto area that's now been razed and is temporarily gravel parking lots, and I'll tell ya - it's 2000x better that it was before. Even with some old shitty early 20th century squatter houses (some claimed they were "heritage" buildings) gone.

[Lee_Haber8]

Originally Posted by freeweed

No, that's the one.

Part of it, to be fair, is that this is a very old building, even for Winnipeg which is old for the west. So it does have some historic value. I think it's one of the older extant buildings in the city.

Part of it, is that in general, folks on these boards hate the concept of anyone driving a car into downtown for work (or seemingly any other use). I've never seen such raw hatred towards parking as I have here - and it's not just surface lots. Parkades get the same eggs thrown at them. It's simply a pure, unadulterated hate on cars.

And of course, part of it is the mentality that has resulted in a boarded up Portage Avenue in many places, and the continued decay of Main Street - you cannot tear anything down in Winnipeg, ever. There's a protectionist, anti-progress streak running through some people that's positively frightening. This is changing, but there are still some hangers-on to the philosphy of "EVERYTHING is a heritage building and I'll chain myself around it to save it, by god!".

You're seeing the results here - full acknowledgement of the use of parking in the area, and yet the demand for more parking is just inconceivable to some people. It's a very strange sort of doublethink.

Personally, I think it's too bad that this house wasn't saved decades ago, before it turned into the piece of crap that it seems to be today. Perhaps the interior is nicer, and a good restoration would help, but yeah - I don't see what there is to "protect" here anymore. This is a bit of hyperbole, because I don't really think this building is THAT bad (it's just an eyesore), but there are many occasions where parking lots are better than the alternative. Calgary had a pretty good ghetto area that's now been razed and is temporarily gravel parking lots, and I'll tell ya - it's 2000x better that it was before. Even with some old shitty early 20th century squatter houses (some claimed they were "heritage" buildings) gone.

That's how an area becomes completely gutted. "Oh it's not so bad, it's just one parking lot, the building was beyond repair." You lose a little piece and the area feels more empty. The appeal of the area decreases and developers lose interest in building and redeveloping the area. It decays even more and suddenly you have more proposals to turn buildings into parking lots. If you knew what Downtown looked like south of portage you would know that planning for the automobile has done no good to downtown Winnipeg. If you knew what that area looked like before the 1950s you would understand even more. The main reason why I am against this as well as many others is that it has to stop here. We can't keep letting our downtown being nickel and dimed into a bombed out mess of concrete parking lots, parkades and ugly buildings. The Exchange district is the only part left that seems somewhat intact still - if we lose that we have nothing

[1ajs]

unfornatly inorder to bring life back to downtown we need parking or no one will come.... we need parking for the plp that live downtown cause they want there car....

the old grays auction building :S we minus well let the fucker build his parkade with the facawed its prity much fucked that building any one noticed the big ass crack in the side wall? but we need to make some laws to stop this sorta shit from being alowed period...

[newflyer]

I dislike the amount of surface lots in the downtown as much as anyone here, but that building is an eyesore. It needs to be torn down, as some buildings will need to be in order to improve the overall presence of the whole area. You can't keep the dives standing in the name of conservation and still say you care about downtown. The focus must be instead on finding developers to build on these lots.

As within the laws of economics; supply will follow demand. Lets create the conditions which will draw more interest in living and locating businesses (both retail and commercial) downtown. As more demand is created there will be more interest in building on these lots.

[newflyer]

If and when more parking lots are filled, there will be developers who will mainatin the parking levels by building a few more parkades, while downtown becomes the dense centre of the city we want it to be. It would sure beat the sea of lots we have now.

[flatlander]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

Drinking, pissing and passing out...sounds like you guys have quite the evening planned for yourselves.

Yup. Maybe after you take Browaty to the Gentlemen' Club you should stop by for a visit!!

[rgalston]

Got to love the enlightening nuggets of wisdom from the philistine rube set.

The level of disdain for cities--on a forum devoted to urban development--is staggaring. "Sidewalk commerce? Ugh! What's that good for?"

[1ajs]

ty rgalston... this is the reson why were fighting over this one is its got 2 viable busnes's in the building a tayler and a restraunt witch both look like they do prity good buisnes.

its sacrolidge to force these two buisness to move for a parking lot... the only empty space is were the hell angles had there bike parts store....

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by flatlander

Yup. Maybe after you take Browaty to the Gentlemen' Club you should stop by for a visit!!

Sounds like a date...

Speaking of which, where is that randy alderman of mine? I'm supposed to see him this weekend.

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by ReginaGuy

I don't get it. Whats the importance of saving this boarded up crack house?

I thought I'd never say it, but that lot would look better as a parking lot. At least people don't look at parking lots and immediately lock the doors in their car

or are you guys talking about a different building?

I don't think anybody would miss the building per se if it were replaced by another new building, but that isn't what we're talking about. The issue at hand is that Winnipeg doesn't need another surface parking lot. The exchange district is all we have left!

Our downtown already looks like it was the victim of a bombing raid. I've never seen a city with as much downtown surface parking as we have here in Winnipeg.

In theory, if surface parking lead to more people coming in from the burbs to shop and play we would have one of the most vibrant downtowns in the whole of North America.

[Only The Lonely..]

Damn! It seems that there's just nowhere to park your car...

[Only The Lonely..]

It's hard to imagine that there was once a city covering all these open spaces.

[j.online]

Originally Posted by freeweed

And of course, part of it is the mentality that has resulted in a boarded up Portage Avenue in many places, and the continued decay of Main Street - you cannot tear anything down in Winnipeg, ever. There's a protectionist, anti-progress streak running through some people that's positively frightening. This is changing, but there are still some hangers-on to the philosphy of "EVERYTHING is a heritage building and I'll chain myself around it to save it, by god!".

I completely agree with ya freeweed that there's an anti-development mentality here that holds much of the developments from seeing daylight. I'm just surprised that there seems to be little discussion about finding a compromise that pleases both camps somewhere in the middle.

The developer wants his 10 more stalls, the people want their house/streetscape. The city is in every position to mediate this one for the benefit of both (ie: developer, go ahead and knock the house & adjoining storefronts down, but also knock down your new building from 6 to 4 floors and build a parkade with your restaurant at ground level). Too often city council acts like a cheap hookers accepting any crap (good or bad) that developers throw at us, which leaves the citizens with the responsibility to question if the development is even good or not. And we all know that story usually ends with either an unbuilt development or months/years or whining community groups (and then an unbuilt dev.)

My point being, that the city does a piss poor job of community consultation which does nothing but piss off both developer and the public.

Personally, I think this developer is whack if he can't put together a strong business plan that both get him all the parking he needs and incorporates the house into the plan. In fact, he'd probably have himself a smarter plan with a parkade on the now empty north-west side of his lot. Parkades are a complete cash cow (case in point: the Portage Place parkade funds a huge majority of the entire forks operating budget)

He wants a character boutique hotel? How much more character do you want if you can boast having a 1900-era house as your high-end restaurant/lounge with a front garden patio. While, I'd love to see the house incorporated into the design, if it must go, tear that sucker down. Just don't leave me with a gaping hole that'll let me see over the sea of cars all the way to King street.

[rgalston]

[Only The Lonely..]

How old is that pict, 1940's or 50's?

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

How old is that pict, 1940's or 50's?

Old enough that hardly anyone had a car, for one thing

Man, the Forks was sure an eyesore for a long time.

[Andy6]

You can see postwar buildings like 100 Main Street and the Bank of Toronto at Portage and Notre Dame, and it's in colour, and it looks probably post-streetcar, so I'd guess around 1959.

[drew]

What are all those industrial type buildings along Assiniboine Ave at Main Street? There's nothing there today...