Winnipeg in top 10 for affordability

[IntotheWest]

^Alright TV - I read the posts before you pulled them. And I was going to provide you with some more facts...but I won't bother now. However, I'll answer one question you posed:

I didn't move to Calgary because of the "urban" environment, and I'd agree that most wouldn't. My point only was that when I moved to Calgary from Edmonton, I was quite surprised at how close everything was - and the quality of amenities. I had looked in Winnipeg when I lived there, as well as Edmonton, but they just weren't the "whole package" (incl walk to work easily..for me - I'm not a "bus" person either...LRT/Subway yes). So, I moved downtown Calgary - and loved it. Calgary definitely has a lot of "gaps" to fill, and after living during the week in downtown Van for two years, and Toronto for one, I do notice it...but, you'd be hard pressed not to notice how quickly it is changing.

I do live in a vinyl siding house - with cultured stone :-) - to raise my family. Despite the popular opinion on these forums of young 20-somethings single with no kids, these boring old burbs (in any city) give a lot of options for young kids..and yes, I don't think anyone in the burbs loves hopping in their cars to get milk, but most don't give it much thought - this is what we were given. Regardless, I do love my house, and cookie-cutter neighbourhood - backyard, basement, and all.

However, the options between single-family and multi-family areas in the past - even Van 15 years ago - were black and white...we're seeing better options here now - though still expensive. As mentioned a few times, Bridges is one, Marda Loop, Garrison, etc...but even the older "burbs" that are now truly inner-city are drastically changing with in-fills, smaller condo buildings, etc.

Basically, people can't afford it here - we couldn't afford what we have now - and we make well into six figures (or, couldn't afford it with our lifestyle). We're kinda kicking ourselves now for not stretching to buy the townhome we had rented (or one in the complex) on 14th ave (Beltline) - 1400 sq ft, and 2 car personal garage!

Anyway - it is changing in Calgary, and quickly. You'd have to know the city fairly well to understand where everything is changing. It still has a ways to go, but I think its definitely on the right track.

BTW - even if burbs as far out as ours are turning into a good-chunk of multi-family dwellings, what's wrong with that? Isn't that one of the smart growth approaches to limit sprawl??

EDIT: Given the recent jumps in real estate for Calgarians, what is Winnipeg prepared to do to attract ex-Winnipegers back to the Peg to live? I don't think there are too many that leave Winnipeg hating it - there's just things about it that we don't like. However, it has crossed our mind a lot to sell here, and live mortgage free in Winnipeg...but we need something more...

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by IntotheWest

^Alright TV - I read the posts before you pulled them. And I was going to provide you with some more facts...but I won't bother now. However, I'll answer one question you posed:

I didn't move to Calgary because of the "urban" environment, and I'd agree that most wouldn't. My point only was that when I moved to Calgary from Edmonton, I was quite surprised at how close everything was - and the quality of amenities. I had looked in Winnipeg when I lived there, as well as Edmonton, but they just weren't the "whole package" (incl walk to work easily..for me - I'm not a "bus" person either...LRT/Subway yes). So, I moved downtown Calgary - and loved it. Calgary definitely has a lot of "gaps" to fill, and after living during the week in downtown Van for two years, and Toronto for one, I do notice it...but, you'd be hard pressed not to notice how quickly it is changing.

I do live in a vinyl siding house - with cultured stone :-) - to raise my family. Despite the popular opinion on these forums of young 20-somethings single with no kids, these boring old burbs (in any city) give a lot of options for young kids..and yes, I don't think anyone in the burbs loves hopping in their cars to get milk, but most don't give it much thought - this is what we were given. Regardless, I do love my house, and cookie-cutter neighbourhood - backyard, basement, and all.

However, the options between single-family and multi-family areas in the past - even Van 15 years ago - were black and white...we're seeing better options here now - though still expensive. As mentioned a few times, Bridges is one, Marda Loop, Garrison, etc...but even the older "burbs" that are now truly inner-city are drastically changing with in-fills, smaller condo buildings, etc.

Basically, people can't afford it here - we couldn't afford what we have now - and we make well into six figures (or, couldn't afford it with our lifestyle). We're kinda kicking ourselves now for not stretching to buy the townhome we had rented (or one in the complex) on 14th ave (Beltline) - 1400 sq ft, and 2 car personal garage!

Anyway - it is changing in Calgary, and quickly. You'd have to know the city fairly well to understand where everything is changing. It still has a ways to go, but I think its definitely on the right track.

BTW - even if burbs as far out as ours are turning into a good-chunk of multi-family dwellings, what's wrong with that? Isn't that one of the smart growth approaches to limit sprawl??

you could not pay me a million dallors to live in thoughs things... all the chemicals leaching outa everything yuk i would be sick all the time if i lived in one of thoughs box's

[IntotheWest]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

you could not pay me a million dallors to live in thoughs things... all the chemicals leaching outa everything yuk i would be sick all the time if i lived in one of thoughs box's

Huh?????

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by IntotheWest

Huh?????

omg you ever noticed the smell in new homes... i get a raging headache when i enter brand new homes... and homes newer then 5 years or so...

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

you could not pay me a million dallors to live in thoughs things... all the chemicals leaching outa everything yuk i would be sick all the time if i lived in one of thoughs box's

So instead you live in an old house built on contaminated soil with lead based paint, lead water pipes, asbestos insulation, asbestos tiles and an old furnace that is slowly filling your house with carbon monoxide. While being in Point Douglas next to old factories filled with toxic chemicals and active ones continuing to spew out toxins.

[drew]

Lead paint is harmless unless you decide you want to strip it from the walls using a heat gun.

Asbestos insulation in turn of the century houses is a very remote possibility. You're lucky if you even have sawdust in the walls.

Asbestos tiles are basically harmless.

And old furnaces slowly filling your house with CO? Please - most old houses don't use the furnaces they were built with. I have a 100 year old house, and the high efficiency furnace is pushing 4 years old now...

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by drew

Lead paint is harmless unless you decide you want to strip it from the walls using a heat gun.

Or have kids. Biggest reason it was banned was because children have this annoying habit of chewing on everything. Paint also has a tendency to flake off on its own, given enough time.

Asbestos insulation in turn of the century houses is a very remote possibility. You're lucky if you even have sawdust in the walls.

Asbestos tiles are basically harmless.

Or shredded newspaper. I think some of this stuff might actually have a negative R value. Nothing like a $500 gas bill. Asbestos *anything* is mostly harmless, until disturbed. Mmmm, friable, carcinogenic materials.

And old furnaces slowly filling your house with CO? Please - most old houses don't use the furnaces they were built with. I have a 100 year old house, and the high efficiency furnace is pushing 4 years old now...

MOST is a strong word - an awful lot of older homes use incredibly antiquated heating systems. I don't think they're exactly pumping your house full of CO, but they do tend to run very inefficiently.

1ajs has a bit of a point, new houses have all sorts of interesting smells. Fresh paint is something you either like or you don't. New carpets shed a ton of fibres in the first year, it's basically a daily vaccuum in high traffic areas or you have little balls of lint all over the place. But the "OMG chemicals!" angle is amusing. People DO realize that every house was at some point new, right? And in years past we often used some pretty dangerous materials in construction? It's not like people were dying like flies in the good old days when they moved into a new house.

Good to see I'm not the only evil non 20-something on this forum, IntotheWest.

[rgalston]

As a parent living in a house celebrating its quasquicentennial, I'll just teach my daughter not to eat paint, thanks.

[drew]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Or have kids. Biggest reason it was banned was because children have this annoying habit of chewing on everything. Paint also has a tendency to flake off on its own, given enough time.

Or shredded newspaper. I think some of this stuff might actually have a negative R value. Nothing like a $500 gas bill. Asbestos *anything* is mostly harmless, until disturbed. Mmmm, friable, carcinogenic materials.

If you have lead paint flaking off the walls in your old house - then I guess either you like the 1920's look, or you are extremely lazy in home improvements.

The lead paint that may be on the walls in my house is currently insulated under about 5 additional layers consisting of wall paper and latex paint. (Much of the R-value in my house is probably derived from paint...)

And yes - asbestos tiles are essentially harmless. Unlike the insulation they are not fibrous - but solid. You don't need a "hazmat" team to remove them, and if you apply a little heat to them, they peel right off the floor like butter.

[h0twired]

This all being said.

What are the "new house" chemicals that ajs1 claimed when he said "all the chemicals leaching outa everything".

New paint smell exists in all houses that were recently painted. Most houses get painted every 10-15 years. I have hardwood/slate tile floors in my new house. No carpet fibres for me. I also have electrostatic filters in my furnace so I dont have any dust coming out of my forced air system either.

My windows and plumbing are all PVC (ABS sewer pipe/stack) which have absolutely no odour.

My point was to demonstrate how petty ajs1's arguement was against new houses and their so-called harmful properties.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by rgalston

As a parent living in a house celebrating its quasquicentennial, I'll just teach my daughter not to eat paint, thanks.

And as a child I was taught how not to fall off my bike, and how not to get hit by a car. Still doesn't prevent most parents (and indeed, many jurisdictions) from mandating helmet use. I was taught not to stick my fingers in electrical outlets, yet I still see outlet covers being sold by the millions.

Overreacting about something that affects a very tiny number of people is what modern parenting is all about!

Incidentally, note the irony here: this was all started in response to a post about the "chemicals" (man, I love that word) coming from new home construction.

[240glt]

Construction materials nowadays are relatively innate...laminate flooring and PVC will give off toxic fumes if it is burned, but otherwise a new house is pretty safe.

The only thing I take issue with is how crappy many new houses are built... being in the constructon trades, I would rather see copper freshwater lines and actual sheetmetal for duct work rather than PVC and laminated cardboard. Fake finish exterior trim may look good when the house is built but I think it'll go the way of red shag carpet once all those faux finishes start to disintegrate.

I was at a friends' place in Coach Hill last weekend... beautiful house, but not put together very well. Their 3 year old collided with a pony wall separating the kitchen from the family room, and the wall is now loose. A quick inspection revealed that the bottom plate of the pony wall was toe-nailed into the floor, giving it virtually no structural support whatsoever. That's just poor constructon in my opinion.

I'll take my 1945 bungalow over a brand new home any day. The material and workmanship quality is much better.

[h0twired]

You can get your house built in the ways of the past. It's not that houses are being poorly built, its that it costs a fortune for things like stain grade wood trim, plaster molded ceilings and high end light/plumbing fixtures.

You can have all of the quality that you are willing to pay for.

[240glt]

You can have all of the quality that you are willing to pay for

Absolutely, but I'm seeing $400,000 houses built with said inferior materials.

And when they're hiring guys off the street to frame houses, I do question the craftsmanship of new homes these days.

[IntotheWest]

Originally Posted by 240glt

I was at a friends' place in Coach Hill last weekend... beautiful house, but not put together very well. Their 3 year old collided with a pony wall separating the kitchen from the family room, and the wall is now loose. A quick inspection revealed that the bottom plate of the pony wall was toe-nailed into the floor, giving it virtually no structural support whatsoever. That's just poor constructon in my opinion.

Holmes, is that you?? :-)

You get what you pay for...I can understand and appreciate that you are in the construction business, but there have always been instances like the one you describe...1945, or 2007. Chances are, if it happened on the 1945 home, it has likely been fixed properly by now ;-)

Shoddy workmanship - or "shortcuts" to get the job done will always be a factor.

Regardless, there are some fabulous older homes in the Peg in the River Heights area - and various areas of Calgary.

[240glt]

You get what you pay for...I can understand and appreciate that you are in the construction business, but there have always been instances like the one you describe...1945, or 2007. Chances are, if it happened on the 1945 home, it has likely been fixed properly by now ;-)

True, but these insances are exacerbated when demand is high and good labor is scarce. People need to do their homework when buying a new home, especially in places like Calgary or Edmonton. I'm in commercial &industrial construction, so the standards are much higher, but I've never seen such low levels of quality as I did when another friend built a house in Tuscany about four years back. Again, looks nice, but cheap materials were used and the craftsmanship was poor. THere are some great new & old houses in Calgary, Edmonton & Winnipeg I'm sure, but it seems like there's lots & lots of garbage being built.

[flatlander]

Originally Posted by h0twired

This all being said.

What are the "new house" chemicals that ajs1 claimed when he said "all the chemicals leaching outa everything".

New paint smell exists in all houses that were recently painted. Most houses get painted every 10-15 years. I have hardwood/slate tile floors in my new house. No carpet fibres for me. I also have electrostatic filters in my furnace so I dont have any dust coming out of my forced air system either.

My windows and plumbing are all PVC (ABS sewer pipe/stack) which have absolutely no odour.

My point was to demonstrate how petty ajs1's arguement was against new houses and their so-called harmful properties.

It's called off gassing. Look it up. A problem for people with chemical sensitivities. Also look up what "petty" means.

[1ajs]

if plp would learn to air their houses out properly i bet the asma rates would go down.............. does not matter how old the house is...

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by flatlander

It's called off gassing. Look it up. A problem for people with chemical sensitivities. Also look up what "petty" means.

I'd venture that things like black mold infestations cause far more health problems than "chemical sensitivity". Quotes added because I find the odds of someone being sensitive to every chemical a bit.. unlikely. And now the word you're looking for isn't "petty", but "pendantic".

To be fair, you can have nasty mold happening in a house of any age, but it's far more common in older buildings with cracked/seeping foundations, roofs that haven't been well maintained, basically any place with that wonderful musty basement smell we've all experienced at one time or another. Or, to take a page from Winnipeg, any old home still on the combined storm/sanitary sewer system that didn't get lucky in 1993/4.

Gotta agree with the comment about PVC pressure pipes - when the hell did this become acceptable under code? I know copper is pricey these days, but we used it for a reason! What's next, aluminum wiring again (insert random photo of 1970s house on fire here)?

[flatlander]

I have no idea whether black mould or offgassing causes more problems, but they're both legitimate concerns. Many new materials today are produced to limit the amount of offgassing. Not everybody likes the 'new car smell' found in many new homes and cars.