Regina | New Mosaic Stadium

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Chaps

If you and your brethren are as concerned with this development as you claim to be...why don't you go read the bloody report yourself and learn the answers instead of baiting Migs time and time and time again?

i dont really care at all actually...im simply expressing my opinion based on my experience....i worked on the feasibility study of the domed stadium proposal in winnipeg so i am very familiar with the issues...im not sure why it is being taken as an attack or as baiting...my points are as legitimate as his.....i dont oppose this stadium at all...i'd love to see it built....its just that there are a lot of things being said here that can and should be disputed.

the fact is that there is no parking strategy, which is actually incredible....the proposal is that the warehouse district and downtown accommodate 10-15000 cars when the stadium is in use....as an urban planing strategy that is a dangerous approach....this will invite demolition in these areas as land owners try to capitalize on the parking demand which will harm the integrity of the neighbourhood.....simply offloading the parking demands on the community will lead to a degradation of the urban fabric.

if this facility is as high use as they claim, it will be far more profitable to create a surface parking lot than to restore a warehouse or build a new building....increasing parking pressures on an urban area can have major negative effect....they are not complimentary to each other.

it is actually quite unbelievable that this is the proposal....google earth any stadium in north america...it is surrounded in parking.....do people in regina actually think that spreading those lots through their downtown is a good idea?

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by jvj

So...I'm not sure if we ever established what exactly the difference is between 2 museums and 1 multi purpose facility. I would agree with Migs that the goal of related development (retail, hotels, restaurants, public squares, etc.) could all be part of the overall site redevelopment. More importantly the Office for Urbanism seems to think that all of these items listed can be a part of the redevelopment as well, so that is encouraging. Also, as part of the initial study I recall that 10 different groups responded to an Expression of Interest advertisement looking for parties to participate in related developments in the area.
e!!!

its about patterns of use....the area around a stadium has to be designed to accommodate the maximum intensity of use even when that occurs only 1% of the time....this leads to vast parking lots and large open spaces that are often empty..the exact opposite of good urban development....as well, the short bursts of intense use is not appropriate as a catalyst for outside development....the economic flow is not consistent enough as even the busiest multi purpose facility sits empty 95% of the time.....this has been proven over and over in north american cities.

a museum on the other hand may draw the same number of total users per year, but in a consistent flow every day, all day....this means that the infrastructure to support it can be far smaller...there is never a need to accommodate 15000 cars or 35000 people......the slow and steady patterns of use does help to spur outside development because it is consistent.

[Chaps]

Originally Posted by trueviking

i dont really care at all actually...im simply expressing my opinion based on my experience....i worked on the feasibility study of the domed stadium proposal in winnipeg so i am very familiar with the issues.

the fact is that there is no parking strategy, which is actually incredible....the proposal is that the warehouse district and downtown accommodate 10-15000 cars when the stadium is in use....as an urban planing strategy that is a dangerous approach....this will invite demolition in these areas as land owners try to capitalize on the parking demand which will harm the integrity of the neighbourhood.....simply offloading the parking demands on the community will lead to a degradation of the urban fabric.

if this facility is as high use as they claim it will be far more profitable to create a surface parking lot than to restore a warehouse or build a new building....increasing parking pressures like that can have major negative effect....

it is actually quite unbelievable that this is the proposal....google earth any stadium in north america...it is surrounded in parking.....do people in regina actually think that spreading those lots through their downtown is a good idea?

Coles notes of this post:

"Yes I was blatantly trolling in my previous posts."

[trueviking]

opposing opinion is not trolling.

[CCF]

Originally Posted by trueviking

the fact is that there is no parking strategy, which is actually incredible....the proposal is that the warehouse district and downtown accommodate 10-15000 cars when the stadium is in use....as an urban planing strategy that is a dangerous approach....this will invite demolition in these areas as land owners try to capitalize on the parking demand which will harm the integrity of the neighbourhood.....simply offloading the parking demands on the community will lead to a degradation of the urban fabric.

The best way to encourage people to commute by personal automobile is to provide the infrastructure that allows them to do so. If you provide endless amounts of parking at a destination, then people are going to drive there. This makes alternative forms of transportation ineffective. The strategy in Regina is to try and make transit more efficient and effective, and the best way to do that, is to make it more competitive with driving.

A significant portion of people attending Rider games at the current site, park in downtown and the warehouse district. Nothing will change that facet.

Perhaps demolishing a building in Winnipeg is a matter of filling out an application but the new downtown plan in Regina does not allow any more surface parking lots. Buildings cannot be replaced by parking. It's prohibited.

As has been mentioned previously, this proposal includes a Sports Hall of Fame and Museum. This will provide a constant flow of people to the site, even during times where there is no event scheduled. This is anticipated to be located along Dewdney Avenue and is an appropriate use at grade. One might be concerned that the facade would be a blank wall of the stadium, but that is simply not the case.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by CCF

A significant portion of people attending Rider games at the current site, park in downtown and the warehouse district. .

not according to the report....almost half park on the surface lots directly beside the stadium....the estimate is that the parking in downtown and warehouse district will triple from its current amounts.

forcing people to not drive to games seems a bit unrealistic to me....its more likely that the surrounding neighbourhoods will adapt to accommodate the parking shortfall instead.

thats great to hear that regina has banned the creation of surface parking....that can often be a challenge politically....this does however discourage development of existing lots by providing significant revenue opportunity to the land owners.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by trueviking

yeah migs...you will find out that rail yard developments are decades long projects...that great plan that you see will not be what is built in regina....it will change many times before it is all built out....there was a plan like that for the forks 20 years ago too...things develop organically....the parking lots you are referring to are slated to become high density residential development...the forks is working on that currently.

You have absolutely no idea whatsoever if the plans will change.

suggesting that simply replacing two museums with a football stadium shows a lack of understanding

The only person who doesn't have an understanding is you as its quite obvious you are missing key parts to what this project entails.

....those museums when completed will bring hundreds of people every day, throughout the day to the site

Personally I see both as good infill projects, which is why I like the idea we are implementing both. Truth is that the stadium will include a sports bar/restaurants as well as a Sk Sports hall of fame/museum and a Roughriders store (remember how many millions of dollars per year are generated by the sales of roughrider merch). Those three things together with residential, commercial, and development and the public squares, most people will come to understand that the area will attract hundreds of people per day even on days that don't have events at the stadium.

that is the consistent type of activity that spurs development....stadiums that have an influx of 35000 people (20 000 cars) 10-20 times a year do not...they simply do not have the sustained activity to support other business....and the intensity of that activity for short periods most often has a detrimental effect on the surroundings....google earth almost every major urban football stadium in north america and see what the surroundings look like....that is not the case with museums that may bring as many people overall, but not in short 3 hour long bursts.

That is where you are continuously missing the boat, not only will this be a covered multipurpose facility, it will also include a museum that will house the Sk Sports Hall of fame as well as a Roughrider/football museum that will attract hundreds of people on a daily basis (also a rumoured CFL-themed sports bar). So in reality, our facility will not only enjoy the benefits you state that come with a cultural theme (museum), they will also include the half million people annually that would attend events the stadium itself.

the baseball stadium you point to in winnipeg is a very good example...it was sold as a key piece of downtown redevelopment, bringing 7000 people downtown 50-60 times a year, yet not a single business has grown from that catalyst....it is a dead zone for 300 days a year and disconnects the exchange district from the forks.

Is that baseball stadium a multipurpose covered facility that can host alot more events other than baseball? I believe it was you who said that arenas can work in downtown cores, our facility will serve a similar purpose in that it can host pretty much any event, even moreso than the MTS Centre in Winnipeg.

the things youngregina says sound great and are the arguments that are often made to governments, but the reality is that it almost never ends up that way....this is not the first 'multi-use' stadium ever built....there are many precedents to use as evidence of what to expect.

You choose to look at the glass as 1/8th empty, we choose to look at it as almost full. There are projects such as the one in Columbus that have been proven successful, its all about coming up with a good plan that suits an areas need. What you guys had planned for Winnipeg's domed stadium obviously didn't work out, our feasibility study stated the opposite in regards to our plan.

im not saying this is the wrong location, all i am saying is that the argument that a stadium is a catalyst for urban development is a flawed one and should not be used to justify this project...there may be many more reasons to support it but that isnt one.

You see this is where your argument once again falls off the rails, the multipurpose facility is one one aspect of this project. Remember this facility will be attached to Regina's biggest tourist attraction and will also include future development similar to that of the forks in Winnipeg. Most logical people understand that a multipurpose facility will attract upwards of half a million people annually on events days, not including the many that will be attracted to the area for reasons stated above. Thankfully the most powerful people in Sk share this vision.

you can keep calling a cow a duck but in the end it will still moo.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its usually a duck. Its obvious to most people what your purpose is in this thread.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by trueviking

So....what is the parking strategy for the stadium anyways. Refresh my memory.

Parking stratedy will be similar to the one that was successful for Mosaic Stadium for decades. Add to that all the downtown parking facilties that already exist.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by Welkin

This is what happens when we have great leaders like Wall and Fiacco, both are pretty much untouchables these days.

TrueViking- You might as well hang it up, at least on this thread. You would get better results arguing your points with your neighbor's dog. Evidently Regina has turned into a Wonderland of True Believers where logic and reason are no longer in fashion. It does not matter that no football stadium has ever led to a revitalization of a downtown core, it will in Regina. It does not matter that concerts and trade shows that never travel to Western Canada (much less southern Saskatchewan) will now start booking Regina in droves.

This project no longer has anything to do with economics and everything to do with politics, vanity and the feeling that the province is "owed" this stadium by the federal government. I would even say that now since low/moderate income housing and rebuilding North Central have become part of this project, that getting this thing built depends entirely on massive federal contributions of well more than $100-$150 million. No massive federal contributions, no Multipurpose Entertainment Football Stadium.

My advice to you is the same advice I am giving myself. Step back, observe and let them have their dream. Quit wasting your time trying to bring logic and knowledgeable information to this thread. They don't want to hear it. I am just going to let it ride out and see where this whole thing goes (although I already have a good idea how it ends up). What a long strange trip it will be. I honestly wish these True Believers the best of success. Go Riders.

It is sarcastic, condescending commments like this that got the last thread closed. If you have a problem with my comments regarding Fiacco or Wall being untouchable right now, feel free to check out their approval ratings. And remember that alot of the arguments that are made by people in support of this project, are done so also by the premier, the minister in charge, the mayor, the chamber of commerce, urban planners, the Regina hotel association, 99% of the business community, etc. As a matter of fact, name one local organization other than the CTF that opposes this project, you can't.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by jvj

So...I'm not sure if we ever established what exactly the difference is between 2 museums and 1 multi purpose facility. I would agree with Migs that the goal of related development (retail, hotels, restaurants, public squares, etc.) could all be part of the overall site redevelopment. More importantly the Office for Urbanism seems to think that all of these items listed can be a part of the redevelopment as well, so that is encouraging. Also, as part of the initial study I recall that 10 different groups responded to an Expression of Interest advertisement looking for parties to participate in related developments in the area.

One other thought...sort of related to the museum topic...the concept plan for the facility has an area designated for the Saskatchewan Sports Hall of Fame. The presence of this would be one example of how traffic can be generated on days other than Rider game days. In fact I would suggest that they could create a Hall of Fame dedicated to the Riders only. Hey we've got 100 years of history to celebrate...might as well take advantage of this new facility and locate it there!!!

Shhh, that doesn't support their agenda.

[Dalreg]

Paging spin doctor migs to the operating room......

[Migs]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Paging spin doctor migs to the operating room......

What about my comments are 'spin'? Are you denying that there is going to be a Sk Sports hall of fame/Roughriders museum within the new facility and that its going to be attached to one of Sk's biggest tourist attractions?

[Migs]

Originally Posted by trueviking

i dont really care at all actually...im simply expressing my opinion based on my experience....i worked on the feasibility study of the domed stadium proposal in winnipeg so i am very familiar with the issues

That explains alot. Thankfully I'll take the opinion of those who worked on the feasibility study of the Regina facility.

the fact is that there is no parking strategy, which is actually incredible....the proposal is that the warehouse district and downtown accommodate 10-15000 cars when the stadium is in use....

Where do the 10-15000 cars park for the current stadium? Take that answer and add all the parking facilities currently in our downtown and you'll get the answer you seek.

as an urban planing strategy that is a dangerous approach....this will invite demolition in these areas as land owners try to capitalize on the parking demand which will harm the integrity of the neighbourhood

Once again comments from someone from the outside looking in who isn't familiar with the current downtown plan.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by trueviking

thats great to hear that regina has banned the creation of surface parking....that can often be a challenge politically....this does however discourage development of existing lots by providing significant revenue opportunity to the land owners.

Do you realize that there is currently more projects being constructed and proposed in downtown Regina than there have been in decades? If anything, the opposite of your statement is true

[jvj]

Originally Posted by Migs

Truth is that the stadium will include a sports bar/restaurants as well as a Sk Sports hall of fame/museum and a Roughriders store (remember how many millions of dollars per year are generated by the sales of roughrider merch). Those three things together with residential, commercial, and development and the public squares, most people will come to understand that the area will attract hundreds of people per day even on days that don't have events at the stadium.

I forgot about the Roughrider store being part of this facility as well. Anyone who's spent time in Regina can certainly vouch that the Rider stores at Northgate mall and the (undersized) location at Mosaic stadium are very popular spots. In fact between mid November and Christmas day they would likely be among the most popular retail destinations in town.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by jvj

I forgot about the Roughrider store being part of this facility as well. Anyone who's spent time in Regina can certainly vouch that the Rider stores at Northgate mall and the (undersized) location at Mosaic stadium are very popular spots. In fact between mid November and Christmas day they would likely be among the most popular retail destinations in town.

Exactly. Its quite obvious that these people from out of province aren't in tune with what is going on here. They try to sing the tune that the stadium area will be a ghost town on non-event days without grasping the true reality that it will be an entertainment location that includes the current Casino, a pedestrian bridge to the biggest shopping mall in the city, a cultural destination with regards to Sk Sport Hall of Fame and the Roughriders museum, new retail which includes a large CFL/Roughriders store, public squares for gathering and celebrating, new hotels (one that starts construction in the spring), new residential, as well as all the current nightlife/restaurants and lounges that line the Dewdney Avenue strip.

[youngregina]

I've said my objectifiable rant, and now think it is time for my voice to be heard just once more. This thread is turning into a pissing match yet again and I would hate to see it locked once more. So can we please keep our discretion levels up and just figure out a way in which to keep ourselves from exploding at the heads.

I propose a very small system in which we only post something, as long as the content is sourced; behind every argument there be a true fact from a reliable source. i.e. - something with a government stamp of approval?

Say, no leader post articles, because they are meant to provoke the reader and most times leave very important details out. (Unless of course it seconds a government approved announcement of some kind).

All I want is for outsiders to be able to enjoy this thread as much as we should. Really, I think we can do it.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by youngregina

I've said my objectifiable rant, and now think it is time for my voice to be heard just once more. This thread is turning into a pissing match yet again and I would hate to see it locked once more. So can we please keep our discretion levels up and just figure out a way in which to keep ourselves from exploding at the heads.

I propose a very small system in which we only post something, as long as the content is sourced; behind every argument there be a true fact from a reliable source. i.e. - something with a government stamp of approval?

Say, no leader post articles, because they are meant to provoke the reader and most times leave very important details out. (Unless of course it seconds a government approved announcement of some kind).

All I want is for outsiders to be able to enjoy this thread as much as we should. Really, I think we can do it.

I disagree, if you take that course than the trollers from Manitoba have won. How they come in here and try and tell us what we deserve and how we should go about getting it (over and over and over again), says more about them than anything.

In the end everything comes to the surface. Now that I see that one of the prominent naysayers from Winnipeg worked on a failed feasibilty study for a covered stadium in that city obviously shows the bias. Could you image how they'll look if they get 'showed up' by the province next door if our project is a success? Kinda reminds me of a few years ago when a buddy of mine told me I was crazy to buy a new Ford Mustang when later I found out that a couple months previous to that he couldnt' get financing for the same vehicle. lol

Fact of the matter is this, OUR feasibiltiy study, OUR leaders, and OUR business community state that this project is going to do wonders for our province, and people like me will do my part to see that it gets done!

[Chaps]

Originally Posted by trueviking

opposing opinion is not trolling.

You're right.

Asking someone to "remind you" about something you know the bloody answer to just to egg them on so you can bury another fish hook...definitely is.

Just cut the juvenile bullshit And quit playing stupid so we can all enjoy these forums. It is just stupid in there right now with the behavior of you and thefourthtower. This isn't grade school.

Mods please take action on the recent behavior of a few people across the whole Manitoba and Saskatchewan forums. It's killing this place.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by Chaps

You're right.

Asking someone to "remind you" about something you know the bloody answer to just to egg them on so you can bury another fish hook...definitely is.

Just cut the juvenile bullshit And quit playing stupid so we can all enjoy these forums. It is just stupid in there right now with the behavior of you and thefourthtower. This isn't grade school.

Mods please take action on the recent behavior of a few people across the whole Manitoba and Saskatchewan forums. It's killing this place.

Yup, you'd think they would've been satisfied enough with the other thread being closed.