HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #81  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2019, 11:29 AM
nameless dude nameless dude is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 57
For the Australian cities I only have the housing completion figures for Sydney, which over the FY 2018-19 completed 42,414 units, of which 29,815 are multi unit:
https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/Rese...ousing-Monitor

The closest thing I can find for Melbourne are their housing approvals. In the year to October 2019, Melbourne approved 43,595 housing units, of which 19,952 are everything other than a house (townhouses, terraces, apartments):
http://stat.data.abs.gov.au/Index.as...Code=BA_GCCSA#

Last edited by nameless dude; Dec 14, 2019 at 4:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #82  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2019, 1:29 PM
kichigai kichigai is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
The difference between the two cities, however, is that Melbourne not only has the same Chinese offshoring but also plays a central role in the 2 million Chinese nationals currently being educated by Australia’s universities, schools, and technical programs.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...cation-sector/

2 million in a country of 25 million, and that 2 million doesn’t include Chinese immigrants whose permanent residence is in Australia.
These figures are waaaaaay off. There are about 1.5m total students Australian and international at Aus universities.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #83  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2019, 2:19 PM
Yuri's Avatar
Yuri Yuri is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,478
Quote:
Originally Posted by kichigai View Post
These figures are waaaaaay off. There are about 1.5m total students Australian and international at Aus universities.
In other words, those 2 million Chinese are actually 200,000, at most. Off by 10x.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #84  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2019, 3:04 PM
Crawford Crawford is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 30,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuriandrade View Post
In other words, those 2 million Chinese are actually 200,000, at most. Off by 10x.
Why only 200k? I could see there being 2 million Chinese nationals in Australian educational programs. Obviously those numbers wouldn't be limited to university.

The overall point is that Australia's wealth is heavily dependent on wealthy Chinese and resource extraction, far more than even Canada.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #85  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2019, 3:09 PM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Austin -> San Antonio -> Columbia -> San Antonio -> Chicago -> Austin -> Denver
Posts: 5,270
Quote:
Originally Posted by kichigai View Post
These figures are waaaaaay off. There are about 1.5m total students Australian and international at Aus universities.
At universities. My link was broader, including all educational opportunities.
__________________
HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #86  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2019, 3:18 PM
Yuri's Avatar
Yuri Yuri is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Why only 200k? I could see there being 2 million Chinese nationals in Australian educational programs. Obviously those numbers wouldn't be limited to university.

The overall point is that Australia's wealth is heavily dependent on wealthy Chinese and resource extraction, far more than even Canada.
So you are saying there are 2 million Chinese STUDENTS in Australia?

Basically 10% of Australia's population are made up of Chinese students. Probably not even in China Chinese students makeup 10% of population.

These days people through numbers out of nowhere and no matter how clearly absurd they are they pass as facts.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #87  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2019, 3:21 PM
Yuri's Avatar
Yuri Yuri is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,478
Australian 2016 Census counted 1,213,903 Chinese people in Australia, of which 2/3 were born outside the country. I assume a 1/3 of those (400k) are students of any degree, including kindergarten. A far cry of this ridiculous 2 million figure.

Case closed.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #88  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2019, 6:12 PM
Zapatan's Avatar
Zapatan Zapatan is offline
DENNAB
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NA - Europe
Posts: 6,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
Houston and Dallas are densifying, but not in the same way as Miami: they’re adding considerable mid-rise density throughout their cores and regionally in transit oriented districts. People forget, but part of what makes Chicago and New York and Philadelphia so densely populated are not the skyscrapers but rather their large swaths of townhouses, rowhouses, apartments, tenements, walk-ups, narrow lot bungalows, and flats. That’s what Houston and Dallas are adding, Miami is only adding luxury skyscrapers. Which of these two is going to result in a truly real lived urban experience. Not Miami’s.
Right, and this is a good thing. But sooner or later skyscrapers will be necessary.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #89  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2019, 9:37 PM
vanman's Avatar
vanman vanman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 6,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Denial is not just a river in Egypt it seems

Make a valid point about the obvious connection between global safe haven demand and high rise booms in say Vancouver and Melbourne and the homers will come out of the woodwork
Vancouver has been building residential highrises en masse since the 60s. Well before the globalization of real estate was even a thing.
Between 1962 and 1975 more than 220 highrises were built in the West End of downtown for example.
https://vancouver.ca/news-calendar/west-end.aspx

The West End 1968

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/...nd-peninsula-2

By the 80s many suburban centres had already built numerous highrise residential neighbourhoods.

Lonsdale North Vancouver 1982

http://old.globalairphotos.com/large...age=015&size=2

West Vancouver 1986

http://old.globalairphotos.com/large...age=001&size=2

Metrotown Burnaby 1982

http://old.globalairphotos.com/large...age=003&size=2

Lougheed Burnaby 1986

http://old.globalairphotos.com/large...age=007&size=2

Uptown New Westminster 1982


But yeah lets keep pretending that the pattern of urban growth in metro Vancouver is a new phenomenon only related to the laundering of dirty foreign money.

Last edited by vanman; Dec 14, 2019 at 9:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #90  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2019, 9:53 PM
MonkeyRonin's Avatar
MonkeyRonin MonkeyRonin is offline
¥ ¥ ¥
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 9,871
Quote:
Originally Posted by tayser View Post
Define multi-family for me... is it just 3 or more bedroom units in buildings that share common areas? i.e. any apartment(condo/unit) building?

Because if that's the case about 15% of all new off-the-plan units would be 3 bed or more, the vast bulk are 2 bed (50+%) and the remainder would be 1 bedders.

10-15 years ago everything was far more skewed toward Studios/1 bedders (i.e more than 50%) but these days studios are almost unheard of in new developments.

"Multi-family" in the North American parlance just refers to multi-unit apartment buildings (as opposed to single family dwellings).


That's encouraging to hear that so many new condo units are 2/3 bedroom though. I couldn't find any reliable, comparable stats for Toronto but my sense is the large majority of new construction units are still 1-bedroom. 3-bedrooms are pretty uncommon, and unsurprisingly are very expensive as a result - not really possible to find one for under $1 million.

That said, there has seemed to be a bit of an increase in family-sized units in recent years. Still unaffordable though.
__________________
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #91  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2019, 3:05 AM
dc_denizen's Avatar
dc_denizen dc_denizen is offline
Selfie-stick vendor
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: New York Suburbs
Posts: 10,999
Quote:
Originally Posted by nameless dude View Post
For the Australian cities I only have the housing completion figures for Sydney, which over the FY 2018-19 completed 42,414 units, of which 29,815 are multi unit:
https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/Rese...ousing-Monitor

The closest thing I can find for Melbourne are their housing approvals. In the year to October 2019, Melbourne approved 43,595 housing units, of which 19,952 are everything other than a house (townhouses, terraces, apartments):
http://stat.data.abs.gov.au/Index.as...Code=BA_GCCSA#
That would put Melbourne on the middle high end of American cities, Houston for example is permitting 18000 multifamily (> 5 unit) units this year through oct, Dallas 23000, and places like dc, San Fran, austin, Seattle between 10000 and 20000.

In 2015 , New York permitted 70000 units.

This comes down to midrises vs highrises. Dallas has 60000 multifamily units under construction
__________________
Joined the bus on the 33rd seat
By the doo-doo room with the reek replete
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #92  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2019, 4:06 AM
nameless dude nameless dude is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 57
Interesting. With "permits" does it mean development application approvals, or actual construction starts? Approvals figures are usually a bit higher than starts/completions since they don't all translate into construction
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #93  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2019, 6:42 AM
isaidso isaidso is offline
The New Republic
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Provinces of America
Posts: 10,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Vancouver doesn't have much office space. The mini-burst is probably related to U.S. immigration restrictions and the H-1B visa problem, given that tech companies are concentrated on the West Coast.
Speculating continuously on places and things you know next to nothing about gets really irritating after a few years. So cities like Seattle, San Francisco, and New York prosper due to American ingenuity but if cities like Vancouver, Toronto, and Melbourne prosper it's nothing they've done themselves? I honestly don't think it's possible to be more condescending and ignorant all at the same time.

The majority of this thread has become about dispelling ridiculous claims, perceptions, and arguments that have little/no basis in reality.
__________________
World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #94  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2019, 2:09 PM
Crawford Crawford is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 30,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Speculating continuously on places and things you know next to nothing about gets really irritating after a few years. So cities like Seattle, San Francisco, and New York prosper due to American ingenuity but if cities like Vancouver, Toronto, and Melbourne prosper it's nothing they've done themselves? I honestly don't think it's possible to be more condescending and ignorant all at the same time.
Putting aside the juvenile ad-hominem, do you disagree that Vancouver likely benefits from the West Coast tech boom? I assume next you're going to argue that Vancouver's film industry is unrelated to Hollywood?

You cannot decouple the Canadian economy from its 10x larger neighbor. I have no doubt that any tech-related leasing burst is at least partially related to U.S. tech and immigration policy. And no, Vancouver isn't considered a hotbed of home-grown innovation, obviously. Same goes for the vast majority of U.S. and Canadian metros.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #95  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2019, 2:44 PM
Nite's Avatar
Nite Nite is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,986

Last edited by Nite; Dec 15, 2019 at 2:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #96  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2019, 4:54 PM
hipster duck's Avatar
hipster duck hipster duck is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,109
Melbourne has a great skyline. It combines the residential density and volume of a major Canadian city, but with much more audacity and variation in the architecture of the buildings.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #97  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2019, 4:10 PM
PFloyd's Avatar
PFloyd PFloyd is offline
DownTowner
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Rosedale & Muskoka
Posts: 262
So Let's Be Absolutely Clear For Once

I am surprised that non-US members of the forum haven't caught on with what really drives some of the US based members (most notably dc denizen and crawford), when Canadian or Australian or any other non-European members post anything related to the virtues of their local cities. Major Australian and Canadian cities such us Sydney, Melbourne, Toronto, Vancouver, etc are consistently featured at or near the top of international lists of major cities with the highest standards of livability, safety, diversity, etc, etc.

You see, American cities can never (nor will ever) make it. There are many reasons for that: they are too economically and racially segregated, too spread out and suburbanized, with little public transit to speak of (and usually used only by the poor). American cities have higher rates of crime, and are far more violent on a per capita basis. There are huge issues with homelessness. Los Angeles alone has about 60,000 (take a tour of LA's Skid Row, right in downtown, in the safety of streetview). In all certainty, no city in the world is perfect, but that kind of poverty and crime is really appalling considering the amount of wealth in the country (of course the number of the ultra wealthy, the 0.001% really skew the statistics. In many ways, American cities remind me of Latin American cities.

It all goes against the mythology of the US as the be-all and end-all shining city on the hill. Even as the world watches it crumbing (the mythology) on a daily basis in the nightly news.

So, of course these guys come out of the woodwork to undermine anyone posting anything highlighting the positives of their cities, using any argument they can grab on to from the internet: "Oh Vancouver growth must be spill over from US West coast tech industry and H1B visa restrictions", " Australia owes its quality of life to the Chinese and their money", "it's economic complexity is very low", etc. etc.

These guys are really in denial - they need to have the heads checked for once, because the average American reaps zero benefits from a system that allows the billionaires to pay almost zero taxes (as Warren Buffet famously pointed out), while you have no Universal Health Care, and permits the NRA to run show when you have mass shootings every-single-day of the year with a 3rd-World-level of corruption in Washington and so many other ills I have no time to write about.

Keep self-deluding yourselves guys; you ain't fooling me or anyone that has the eyes wide open with your BS arguments, half truths and smoke screens.
__________________
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

Last edited by PFloyd; Dec 17, 2019 at 3:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #98  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2019, 4:49 PM
hipster duck's Avatar
hipster duck hipster duck is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,109
^I can't speak for Australia, but I've lived in Canada and the US, and both countries' cities have their appeal.

The appeal of Canada is that you can have a relatively decent standard of living as a middle class individual of average ability. So, sure, Canada does well on livability metrics.

The appeal of the United States is that you can have an exceptional life if you are wealthy but also if you are in the top 10% of skill, ability or in a field where you can apply your intelligence professionally. An exceptional life doesn't just involve money. It also involves being able to flex your intellectual and creative muscle in ambitious, rewarding jobs surrounded by smart, ambitious and curious people. There aren't really official metrics for this, but the feeling is very palpable when you're there.

Generally, though, if you're in the bottom 90% you're better off in Canada. That doesn't stop a lot of foreigners from thinking they're in the top 10% and trying to make it in the US (maybe I was one of them).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #99  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2019, 4:56 PM
PFloyd's Avatar
PFloyd PFloyd is offline
DownTowner
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Rosedale & Muskoka
Posts: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
^I can't speak for Australia, but I've lived in Canada and the US, and both countries' cities have their appeal.

The appeal of Canada is that you can have a relatively decent standard of living as a middle class individual of average ability. So, sure, Canada does well on livability metrics.

The appeal of the United States is that you can have an exceptional life if you are wealthy but also if you are in the top 10% of skill, ability or in a field where you can apply your intelligence professionally. An exceptional life doesn't just involve money. It also involves being able to flex your intellectual and creative muscle in ambitious, rewarding jobs surrounded by smart, ambitious and curious people. There aren't really official metrics for this, but the feeling is very palpable when you're there.

Generally, though, if you're in the bottom 90% you're better off in Canada. That doesn't stop a lot of foreigners from thinking they're in the top 10% and trying to make it in the US (maybe I was one of them).
Agreed. By the way, I moved to Toronto from US, so I also know the country extremely well.

By the way, not only "a lot of foreigners" but so many american born locals like to pretend they live in or will have someday access to Malibu, but live really in Flint Michigan or Kansas City, Kansas so to speak with no realistic way out. But what else do you have Hollywood for? or SPP in this case, hahaha.
__________________
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

Last edited by PFloyd; Dec 16, 2019 at 7:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #100  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2019, 5:02 PM
suburbanite's Avatar
suburbanite suburbanite is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Toronto & NYC
Posts: 5,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by PFloyd View Post

Keep self-deluding yourselves guys; you ain't fooling me or anyone that has the eyes wide open with your BS arguments, half truths and smoke screens.
This is a very emotional response to a simple and likely true statement about Vancouver. What the hell do mass shootings have to do with Amazon leasing over a million square feet of space in Vancouver? Talk about a smokescreen lol
__________________
Discontented suburbanite since 1994
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:47 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.