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  #5241  
Old Posted May 26, 2020, 4:29 PM
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What are the odds we see a design at some point this year, or that it gets off the ground by 2021, realistically?

Silverstein ain't getting any younger.
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  #5242  
Old Posted May 26, 2020, 11:29 PM
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Updated design this year and perhaps a start date before the anniversary next year?
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  #5243  
Old Posted May 27, 2020, 2:11 AM
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What are the odds we see a design at some point this year, or that it gets off the ground by 2021, realistically?

Silverstein ain't getting any younger.
I"m surprised we haven't seen the updated design already. This is more than Foster just brushing off his old design. Must be putting some effort into it. Could be a beauty.
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  #5244  
Old Posted May 27, 2020, 4:49 PM
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https://commercialobserver.com/2020/...ny-new-office/

Yes, Everyone Still Wants That Shiny New Office

BY STEVE CUOZZO
MAY 27, 2020


Quote:
... Six million square feet of expensive, newly-minted and as-yet unleased office space coming to market in the midst of one of New York City’s most catastrophic times might sound like too big a pill to swallow.

But things have looked bleak before, and it’s time to give the city’s remarkable regenerative powers a fair shot.
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Usually baseless fears of a “glut” and “shadow space” – i.e., occupied floors that are quietly up for sublease – are a forever part of New York real estate chatter. Even when they occur, as in the late 1980s due to undisciplined over-construction, they don’t last long.

Nor do physical catastrophes produce the dystopian “things will never be the same” outcomes. It was an article of faith for some that Manhattan, and downtown especially, wouldn’t ever be the same after 9/11. Who would ever again want to work there, close to an open mass grave and amidst possibly poisonous air? But downtown became the city’s lowest-vacancy office district a few years later.

Ah, skeptics say – but 9/11 was a one-time disaster, where the virus might be with us for years.

Counterpoint: New York City lived in dread of another terrorist attack for long after. We feared another airborne assault at least as much as we now fear the airborne virus.
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Also in the largest new projects’ favor is that companies needing the most state-of-the-art workspaces won’t have much choice elsewhere. Manhattan is almost out of buildable footprints on commercially-zoned land big enough to allow super-size new developments to go up – which is one reason why, for example, ABC/Disney is building a new headquarters in the once-unappealing Hudson Square.

Even the 4.3 million availability figure “needs an asterisk,” said JLL tristate chairman Peter Riguardi, because some tenants that signed for the supertalls have expansion options beyond their original commitments.
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Ever-optimistic Mitchell L. Moss, Henry Hart Rice Professor of Urban Policy and Planning at NYU, acknowledged, “Everything will slow down because of the uncertainty.”

Even so, brand-new towers that incorporate today’s in-demand bells-and-whistles – such as column-free floor plates, 14-plus-foot slab to slab floor heights, and environmentally attuned infrastructure – have a huge advantage over the city’s older office stock. Buildings a mere 25 years old are generations behind the new class.
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Moss noted, “Buildings like One Vanderbilt are sufficiently advanced that they can be easily modified to protect employees before they open.”

Tighe said, “The Covid crisis is going to cause anybody who’s looking at their office needs to factor in elements ideally suited to new buildings but are challenges for older ones.”

The sophisticated air-flow systems shared by the new skyscrapers can be made virus-resilient much more easier than older ones can. And, “it’s easier to create touchless technology in new buildings,” Tighe said. “UV lights can kill off germs in buildings during the day. The entire process of access will be touchless,” thanks to iPhone codes that can let employees in without having to pass through security gates.
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If anything, reduced demand for office space will hurt Class-B buildings and older Class-A buildings more than the new, ground-up crop. That trend has been ongoing for years as tens of millions of obsolescent commercial properties were converted to apartments.

It’s part of the city’s ever-evolving dynamic, which not even the most terrible plague in 100 years is likely to change.
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  #5245  
Old Posted May 27, 2020, 7:49 PM
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any chance this is higher than 1,270 FT roof top height?
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  #5246  
Old Posted May 27, 2020, 7:53 PM
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any chance this is higher than 1,270 FT roof top height?
Not sure, I think that figure comes from Foster design's original parapet, although with the tip thing it topped out at about 1,350'.

They should just make it 1,362' in any case, kind of dumb not too tbh.
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  #5247  
Old Posted May 28, 2020, 5:41 PM
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Not specifically WTC related, but to show that business and office leasing will go on...

https://commercialobserver.com/2020/...-one-five-one/

TikTok Taking 232K-SF in Durst’s One Five One
The popular video sharing app is expanding and making a splash with the first sizable Manhattan lease in months


BY STEVE CUOZZO
MAY 28, 2020


Quote:
Times Square has no tourists right now, but it will soon have TikTok.

The insanely popular video-sharing app’s parent company has signed a 232,000-square-foot office lease at the Durst Organization’s One Five One, the 48-story tower formerly known as Four Times Square, Commercial Observer has learned.

The deal is a surprise blockbuster amidst the pandemic real estate freeze and represents a remarkable vote of confidence in the city. No sizable leases, reaching into the six digits, have been completed in Manhattan since the onset of the crisis in February, although a 740,000 square-footer is pending for Facebook at the Farley Post Office complex.
Quote:
“TikTok started looking last year,” a source said. “Their requirement grew from 50,000 square feet to a lot more. They checked out several other locations including at the World Trade Center.”
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  #5248  
Old Posted May 30, 2020, 5:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
Not sure, I think that figure comes from Foster design's original parapet, although with the tip thing it topped out at about 1,350'.

They should just make it 1,362' in any case, kind of dumb not too tbh.
In total agreement! That number needs to be incorporated the 1,362' at least 'somewhere' in the tower's design. Also, in a perfect setting; Tower 2 would get back it's outdoor observatory and Tower 1's function could serve purely as restaurant and banquet like the original, since the layout of Tower 1's floors already has the perfect layout for that. I worry though that when Tower 2 is built it will block the view of the Brooklyn Bridge from Tower 1. With the footprint being so big, one could see a pyramid or double tower style like the original Norman Foster design going up here. Either way the anticipation is killing me... ><
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  #5249  
Old Posted May 30, 2020, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CHAPINM1 View Post
In total agreement! That number needs to be incorporated the 1,362' at least 'somewhere' in the tower's design. Also, in a perfect setting; Tower 2 would get back it's outdoor observatory and Tower 1's function could serve purely as restaurant and banquet like the original, since the layout of Tower 1's floors already has the perfect layout for that. I worry though that when Tower 2 is built it will block the view of the Brooklyn Bridge from Tower 1. With the footprint being so big, one could see a pyramid or double tower style like the original Norman Foster design going up here. Either way the anticipation is killing me... ><
Silverstein had previously said that Tower 2 would include some type of event space up top, but the outdoor deck would be a better idea. I don't think Durst would like the competition with the Freedom Tower deck, but the outdoor experience is basically something all of the New York decks will have: Empire State, 30 Rock, 30 Hudson, One Vanderbilt, and even the Chrysler. The WTC is the only one that won't have an outdoor deck, but once boasted the highest, at 1,377 ft. Of course, if Tower Fifth is built, it will also have an outdoor deck.
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  #5250  
Old Posted May 30, 2020, 2:37 PM
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My goodness this symbolism of the original WTC has been the biggest albatross for this whole complex. You want symbolism... how about WTC1 being 2,001 feet tall? Whoever thought up 1,776 should have been eyerolled out of the room and I see no reason at all the memorialize the random technical height of the original towers unless it's a subtle reference on the new towers on their way up to higher roof heights.
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  #5251  
Old Posted May 31, 2020, 6:25 AM
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Silverstein had previously said that Tower 2 would include some type of event space up top, but the outdoor deck would be a better idea. I don't think Durst would like the competition with the Freedom Tower deck, but the outdoor experience is basically something all of the New York decks will have: Empire State, 30 Rock, 30 Hudson, One Vanderbilt, and even the Chrysler. The WTC is the only one that won't have an outdoor deck, but once boasted the highest, at 1,377 ft. Of course, if Tower Fifth is built, it will also have an outdoor deck.
Agreed, I may go out on a wimb here by saying that the current observatory is somewhat outdated already since it doesn't have the open air option like others around the city. It's operations though are perfect for a setup like the original Tower 1's Windows on the World Restaurant and Banquet. Both buildings worked hand in hand and that's how the new complex should also operate. Tower 2 should really focus on an outdoor type setup like the original did and even have an 'extension' in the same way above the roof for viewing.
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  #5252  
Old Posted May 31, 2020, 9:59 AM
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The observation chat is interesting. Remember they have all that competition coming from midtown. I mean the HY's one is amazing inside and out and as I've said before gives off more of a WOTW vibe than 1WTC's offering in my opinion.

Last edited by SkyHigher; May 31, 2020 at 2:54 PM.
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  #5253  
Old Posted May 31, 2020, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CHAPINM1 View Post
Agreed, I may go out on a wimb here by saying that the current observatory is somewhat outdated already since it doesn't have the open air option like others around the city. It's operations though are perfect for a setup like the original Tower 1's Windows on the World Restaurant and Banquet. Both buildings worked hand in hand and that's how the new complex should also operate. Tower 2 should really focus on an outdoor type setup like the original did and even have an 'extension' in the same way above the roof for viewing.

And it would be a money maker like the rest of the decks. I don't know that SIlverstein doesn't have some unwritten agreement with Durst. But tower 2 should at least have a Windows on the World type restaurant.
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  #5254  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2020, 6:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
My goodness this symbolism of the original WTC has been the biggest albatross for this whole complex. You want symbolism... how about WTC1 being 2,001 feet tall? Whoever thought up 1,776 should have been eyerolled out of the room and I see no reason at all the memorialize the random technical height of the original towers unless it's a subtle reference on the new towers on their way up to higher roof heights.
We were all feeling rather sentimental at the time.

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The observation chat is interesting. Remember they have all that competition coming from midtown. I mean the HY's one is amazing inside and out and as I've said before gives off more of a WOTW vibe than 1WTC's offering in my opinion.
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And it would be a money maker like the rest of the decks. I don't know that Silverstein doesn't have some unwritten agreement with Durst. But tower 2 should at least have a Windows on the World type restaurant.
Pending the new design, 2WTC will be in position to have the very best observation deck/restaurant views over downtown, Liberty Island, the Brooklyn Bridge, etc. None of the Midtown decks can really compete with that in the same way. And the only thing 1WTC would possibly partially block the view of from the top of 2WTC is... New Jersey. Furthermore, the construction of 2WTC would interfere significantly with the eastward views from the 1WTC observation level, reducing its appeal.

Putting an amenity of this sort atop 2WTC looks like a no-brainer to me.
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  #5255  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2020, 12:31 PM
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My goodness this symbolism of the original WTC has been the biggest albatross for this whole complex.
With good reason. Having just watched the new 'Unearthed : Secret History of The Twin Towers' documentary via not the Science Channel has made me fall in love with those titans all over again!


Plus whole building blocking the other building from varying views is testament as the original design of the complex, to only really look good as a whole from the south west. Most of the artwork show the complex in this way.

Another reason why they should have rebuilt or used a Twin Tower like concept. It would look good at every view point. Oh and it would have been finished by now........
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  #5256  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2020, 11:29 PM
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With good reason. Having just watched the new 'Unearthed : Secret History of The Twin Towers' documentary via not the Science Channel has made me fall in love with those titans all over again!


Plus whole building blocking the other building from varying views is testament as the original design of the complex, to only really look good as a whole from the south west. Most of the artwork show the complex in this way.

Another reason why they should have rebuilt or used a Twin Tower like concept. It would look good at every view point. Oh and it would have been finished by now........

The thing about the twins is you’re talking about buildings of more than 4 msf each - massive towers that today would be a lot higher. At the time the rebuilding concept was being established, there wasn’t much faith that supertalls would even exists in the numbers and heights of today. The plan was to keep the office space no higher than 1,000 ft, with the events id 9/11 and the number of people stuck at the top fresh on everyone’s minds. Then there’s the issue if leasing and financing. Not everyone was committed to taking space Downtown pre-9/11. There are companies that left, and will never go back. But there are some companies who will go for the first time. If history has taught us anything about the original WTC, it’s that it will take time for the WTC and Downtown to absorb all of that space. And we are seeing it play out again now.
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  #5257  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2020, 1:32 AM
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Mr. Silverstein, a true New York hero, and Sir Foster will deliver a showstopper here.

I can't say enough good things about Mr. Silverstein. I saw him in an interview, and he appears to be a nice, genuine person.
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Last edited by JMKeynes; Jun 7, 2020 at 12:20 PM.
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  #5258  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2020, 10:26 AM
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The thing about the twins is you’re talking about buildings of more than 4 msf each - massive towers that today would be a lot higher. At the time the rebuilding concept was being established, there wasn’t much faith that supertalls would even exists in the numbers and heights of today. The plan was to keep the office space no higher than 1,000 ft, with the events id 9/11 and the number of people stuck at the top fresh on everyone’s minds. Then there’s the issue if leasing and financing. Not everyone was committed to taking space Downtown pre-9/11. There are companies that left, and will never go back. But there are some companies who will go for the first time. If history has taught us anything about the original WTC, it’s that it will take time for the WTC and Downtown to absorb all of that space. And we are seeing it play out again now.
Yeh I remember the period well. Will skyscrapers of that height be built again etc. Even talking of not having terrorists in films and other over the top stuff.

2WTC really has to be special. Fingers crossed.
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  #5259  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2020, 12:40 PM
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Yeh I remember the period well. Will skyscrapers of that height be built again etc. Even talking of not having terrorists in films and other over the top stuff.

2WTC really has to be special. Fingers crossed.

Also remember the crowds, even some in government, who wanted the entire site to be left as a memorial, without replacing the lost office space. They didn't take into account the reason the World Trade Center was built in the first place, and we can't forget that either. The office space must be rebuilt. Leave the residential to towers like 45 Broad, and 80 South Street, or one of the other many residential towers currently rising or planned Downtown.
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  #5260  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2020, 3:33 PM
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Also remember the crowds, even some in government, who wanted the entire site to be left as a memorial, without replacing the lost office space. They didn't take into account the reason the World Trade Center was built in the first place, and we can't forget that either. The office space must be rebuilt. Leave the residential to towers like 45 Broad, and 80 South Street, or one of the other many residential towers currently rising or planned Downtown.
That's an interesting thing to point out that 2WTC and maybe part of 5WTC will be the only high-rise office space to be built in Lower Manhattan in the pipeline in the near future.

Also there was a proposal to build a 1000ft+ building near 388 Greenwich Street I think. I dunno can't really remember. Any ideas?
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