noirish Los Angeles

[HossC]

Originally Posted by Otis Criblecoblis

Please pardon the interruption. I inadvertently hit the Quote button and know no way to unring that bell.

So long as you haven't hit "Submit Reply", you can "unring that bell" by simply clicking the left arrow at the top of your browser to go back to the previous page you were on. In fact, you can click any link to take you away from the reply page, e.g. the "noirish Los Angeles" link at the top of the page, or the browser's "Home" button if you have one.

[ozone]

Originally Posted by CityBoyDoug

I hate to say it but this how much of the 3rd world looks today. The once elegant LA has deteriorated into a decrepit sinister jungle.

Is LA the new Calcutta or whatever...

To to get too far off the topic but I’m a non-Indian whose familiar with Kolkata (Calcutta) and anyone who asserts that LA in anyway resembles it doesn’t know what they are talking about. About every 10 years there is a slew of articles about how California is doomed and everyone is leaving in mass. It’s a painful transition but LA has never been as that sentimental regarding its past /old buildings anyway.

[ethereal_reality]

We recently discussed the location of Bunker, Court and Fort Moore Hills.

I came across this early sterepscopic view in one of my older files just a few days ago.

"Telegraph Hill, Los Angeles"



Where was Telegraph Hill? Was it an alternative name for Fort Moore Hill?

Or are we looking northwest in this view....to an entirely different hill?

( we have no doubt discussed this before. I just don't recall)
__

extra-bonus questiion:

Is that ink doodle suppose to be someone's idea of a telegraph tower? (perhaps a child)


__

[oldstuff]

These comparisons are really helpful N N.

Besides the mustache I don't think that's him. It was a long shot on my part.


ScottyB, I wasn't able to find any connection between the Jacoby Bros. and Jacoby of 'Jacoby and Myers'. -maybe oldstuff will dig up something. She's a pro at this sort of thing.[/QUOTE]

I did not find any connection between the Jacoby brothers and Jacoby and Myers either. Jacoby the lawyer is still living and therefore there is not much on him other than what is related to the law firm.

I have a lot on the Jacoby family from the store:

JACOBY FAMILY
Los Angeles

The brothers Jacoby who ran a store in Los Angeles were:

• Nathan Jacoby, was born in Lobau, West Prussia, Prussia on June 22, 1843. His wife was Bertha. He was the president of the company. Appears in 1880 census at 310 Main Street in Los Angeles. In 1895 he appears in a directory living at 739 S. Hope. He is also listed in 1895 as manager of the juvenile department of the store. In 1897 he appears living at 318 S. Fort St. The store was listed in the directory as men’s and boy’s outfitters. Nathan died in Los Angeles on November 21, 1911 and is buried at the Home of Peace Memorial Park in Los Angeles.

• Morris N. Jacoby was born in 1848 in Germany (Prussia). He died before 1909, his widow was Rosa. Morris managed the shoe department at the store as listed in 1895 directory. He lived at 739 S. Hope in the 1906 directory. He is listed as residing at 691 Westmoreland in 1909 and also appears at that address in 1910.

• Charles Jacoby, born in Prussia in about 1854 and, died in 1895. He is listed as living in New York in 1887, but affiliated with the store, according to a Los Angeles directory for that year. An obiturary article indicates that he was in New York at the time of his death but apparently did not live there as his wife and daughter accompanied his brother Nathan to bring his remains back to Los Angeles.

• Abraham Jacoby was born in June of 1854 in Germany (Prussia) He is listed as living at 444 S. Hill in an 1893 directory. He is listed in the 1895 directory as one of the brothers running the store. At that time, he was also the President of the Board of Trade. In 1895 he lived at 1239 Trenton. His name does appear in an article dated July 1895 which states that he had retired.

• Lesser Jacoby -Born in Prussia in about 1845. He died before 1909. His widow was Lydia. He lived at 301 S. Fort St in 1887. Lesser appears in the 1880 Census next door to Nathan at 309 Main St. Los Angeles. By 1893 he was living at 735 S. Hope.

• Isaac N. Jacoby, born in Prussia in 1840. He is listed as living in San Francisco in 1895 but affiliated with the store. He died in San Francisco in 1902.

FAMILY MEMBERS NOT INVOLVED IN THE STORE WERE
• Herman Jacoby - Born in Germany in about 1841. His wife was Matilda. He had two children, Etta and Nathan. He died in April of 1913 and is buried in the Home of Peace Memorial Park in Los Angeles. He settled in Wilmington and was postmaster there, not involved with the store.

SONS OF THE ORIGINAL BROTHERS WHO ALSO WORKED IN THE STORE
• Jacob B. Jacoby, a son of one of the five brothers, he appears working in the store in a 1909 directory

• Leo Jacoby was born in about 1882 and was the son of Morris Jacoby. He was later Vice pres of store. In 1895 he is listed in a directory as a wrapper in the store. Lived at 691 Westmoreland in 1909.

• Grover Isadore Jacoby was born in 1884. He is a son of one of the original brothers. He appears in the 1895 directory as being a salesman at the store. In the same directory his address is given as 739 S. Hope.

• Phillip S. Jacoby was born in 1870. He may be the son of Isaac Jacoby. He appears in the 1895 directory as a salesman in the store. At that time, he lived at 731 S. Hope.

Maybe some of you can find pictures of some of the houses where they lived.

[CityBoyDoug]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

The over-the-top hyperbole is ridiculous and uncalled for CBD.
Is this truly how you feel about Los Angeles?

__

You may think its hyperbole and uncalled for but I'm not making this up.....these are the facts, reality.

LA used to be a place of openness and access. Today much of LA is a city with double locks, closed off alleys, fences, walled off apartment buildings, caged entries, iron bars on windows, razor wire etc., which is the way most of the 3rd world looks.

Apartments where I used to live in Hollywood are now closed off with a tall iron fence and a locked gate entry. It wasn't that way when I lived in those places in the 1970s. Its really shocking.

I've traveled in several 3rd world countries and have seen them up close.

Yes, this is the way I see LA because I have seen both. I remember the way LA used to look.

My memories of LA go back to the late 1940s....LA does look very different today. Its a city in 2018 that's in lock-down.

[ethereal_reality]

Here's another curled photograph. :hint :

The Arroyo Seco Parkwy shortly after it was finished.


ebay

I'm not entirely sure what segment of the parkway we're looking at here. There's writing at the top but it's difficult to read.



I tried straightening it myself...by shopping off the ends.



__

[Bristolian]

Originally Posted by Otis Criblecoblis

Wow, Scott, that's a masterful job of correcting the distortion in that photo! Your Photoshop-fu is strong! Thanks for posting it.

Originally Posted by Scott Charles

Thanks, Otis!

I think Scott was sandbagging when he showed up not too long ago downplaying his contributions while praising other contributors.
Fast forward to now and look at his wizardry!

Seriously though, I'm very impressed with Scott's graphics abilities. I work with some guys who are pretty adept with Photoshop and I keep seeing great stuff and new techniques here courtesy of Scott.

[HossC]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

Where was Telegraph Hill? Was it an alternative name for Fort Moore Hill?

Or are we looking northwest in this view....to an entirely different hill?

(perhaps we have discussed this before. I just don't recall)

From KCET's The Lost Hills of Downtown Los Angeles:

Poundcake Hill was the first to recede from the landscape. First known to English-speaking Angelenos as Telegraph Hill for the semaphore tower that once stood on its summit, it eventually gained a new name, derived from its resemblance to the round, plump dessert food. When the Southland's first high school rose from its top in 1873, the hill stood high above Temple Street below. Later, construction of an imposing, red-sandstone county courthouse (1891) on the site shortened the hill's stature, and after the courthouse's 1936 demolition, development of the Los Angeles Civic Center and construction of the new Clara Shortridge Foltz Criminal Justice Center flattened Poundcake Hill beyond recognition.

[ethereal_reality]

Thanks once again Hoss I appreciate it.





This snapshot isn't quite as curled as the Arroyo Seco snap.

"Statler-Hotel, Los Angeles" [ 1952 or 1953 ]


EBAY




The seller included this enlargement. I believe they held down the photo better. -(or chopped off the ends like did

[Andys]

Originally Posted by CityBoyDoug

You may think its hyperbole and uncalled for but I'm not making this up.....these are the facts, reality.

LA used to be a place of openness and access. Today much of LA is a city with double locks, closed off alleys, fences, walled off apartment buildings, caged entries, iron bars on windows, razor wire etc., which is the way most of the 3rd world looks.

Places where I used to live in Hollywood are now closed off with a tall iron fence and a locked gate entry. It wasn't that way when I lived in those places in the 1970s. Its really shocking.

I've traveled in several 3rd world countries and have seen them up close.

Yes, this is the way I see LA because I have seen both. I remember the way LA used to look.

My memories of LA go back to the late 1940s....LA does look very different today. Its a city in 2018 that's in lock-down.

CBD,

I would opine that your observations are not exclusive to LA. Other big cities suffer a similar evolution.......A sign of the times?

Growing up in Atwater (Village), we used to play in the now fenced-off LA River, flatten penny's on the railroad tracks (again, no fence), and go Trick-or-Treating unsupervised (people would invite you into their homes to choose whatever home made treat you wanted), etc. Yeah, I'd say it's way different now.

Cheers,
AndyS

[HossC]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

"Statler-Hotel, Los Angeles" [ 1952 or 1953 ]

Same scene in 2011:



And 2017:



Both GSV

[ethereal_reality]

Originally Posted by HossC

Poundcake Hill was the first to recede from the landscape. First known to English-speaking Angelenos as Telegraph Hill for the semaphore tower that once stood on its summit, it eventually gained a new name, derived from its resemblance to the round, plump dessert food. When the Southland's first high school rose from its top in 1873.

Poundcake Hill had entirely slipped my mind Hoss.

This reminds me of a photograph I have in a file but never posted.

This unidentified hill is somewhere in the Los Angeles vicinity. (judging by the other photographs in the family album)


Mary Hockenberry

It has some semblance to Poundcake Hill. (or maybe this is more of a Bundt Cake Hill )

Jerome - Mama Sept. 1914

[BDiH]

Originally Posted by Beaudry

Reminds me of what the late Nick Beck said in Shotgun Freeway (here, at 42:35) — "Groucho Marx once said that all the places—when they talk about the good old days, what they're really longing for is their youth. The hotels were dirty and cold and so forth, and what they remember is they were young."

Shotgun Freeway left me with mixed feelings. First off, it is dated already. 21st Century Los Angeles is very different than the negative portrait painted by some of the commentators on the documentary. With the exceptions of Gene Norman and Buck Henry, John St. John, Buddy Collette and a couple of others, I take offense at their judgmental approach.

Those of us born and raised in Los Angeles have a certain right to criticize our home town. The transplants that rely on tired cliches can keep their opinions to themselves, as far as I am concerned.

We don't live in fear of the "Big One" and we don't denigrate neighborhoods that don't measure up to the standards of the new arrivals.

[Scott Charles]

Originally Posted by Bristolian

I think Scott was sandbagging when he showed up not too long ago downplaying his contributions while praising other contributors.
Fast forward to now and look at his wizardry!

Seriously though, I'm very impressed with Scott's graphics abilities. I work with some guys who are pretty adept with Photoshop and I keep seeing great stuff and new techniques here courtesy of Scott.

Thanks, Bristolian - that's very kind of you!

I do Photoshop for a living (I'm a graphic artist), and while I may possess some skill at doing that, I am still routinely blown away by the skills and knowledge of others here. I might see an old building and say "that's the old X building", and then someone else comes along and says "that's the old X building, built by this architect in this year for this real estate developer, built on the site of the previous W building, and the same architect also built Z building, etc, etc..."

I see posts like that, and I always think to myself "well, that guy must have a computer for a brain!" - it's all very impressive!

[Scott Charles]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

we recently discussed the location of bunker, court and fort moore hills.

I came across this early sterepscopic view in one of my older files just a few days ago.

"telegraph hill, los angeles"

where was telegraph hill? Was it an alternative name for fort moore hill?

This is my understanding of the downtown hills, ER - if I am wrong, someone please correct me!

The area known as Telegraph/Poundcake Hill appears in blue, just below Court Hill:



Below, map of 1877, Poundcake Hill is highlighted in green, sitting atop it is Los Angeles High School:
LINK

Poundcake Hill and Los Angeles High School, top left. This image gives a good idea of how high Poundcake Hill once stood:
LINK

1870's, Poundcake Hill on the top left. Sitting atop it is Los Angeles High School. In the dead center of the photo is St. Athanasius church:
LINK

St. Athanasius with the LA County Courthouse in the background. The Courthouse has taken the place where Los Angeles High School once stood; it appears that Poundcake Hill has been leveled considerably:
LINK

The LA County Courthouse from the same angle as above, but with the St Athanasius church now gone:
LINK

The same view today, the Clara Shortridge Foltz building on the same corner, Spring and Temple, where St. Athanasius church once stood:

GSV



On the left, green section (current site of the Central Library) once stood Normal Hill.


From kcet.org:

Normal Hill. The southernmost knoll in a ridge that stretched north to Elysian Park, the hill once towered 70 feet above the surrounding landscape. Prudent Beaudry opened his Bellevue Terrace gardens on the site in the early 1870s, and the hill got its name in 1882, when the California Branch State Normal School moved into a five-story building atop its summit. To extend Fifth Street through the site, construction crews shaved off the top half of Normal Hill, and the construction of the Los Angeles Central Library on the site further reduced its visual prominence.

KCET

Above, in green, is Bellevue Terrace, sitting atop the soon-to-be-called Normal Hill. The hill(s) in orange are Bunker Hill.

By the way, does anyone know what the elevated, railroad-looking structure is on the bottom right of the image?

Circa 1898 view of the State Normal School, looking north from Hope and 6th streets, and the same view today:

KCET/GSV

As the quote above mentions, it seems that the top of Normal Hill was shaved off to make way for the Normal School, then even more was shaved off to make room for the Central Library. Not much of Normal Hill still exists.

[odinthor]

Originally Posted by Scott Charles

[...]

From kcet.org:


KCET

Above, in green, is Bellevue Terrace, sitting atop the soon-to-be-called Normal Hill. The hill(s) in orange are Bunker Hill.

By the way, does anyone know what the elevated, railroad-looking structure is on the bottom right of the image?
[...]

Just a guess, but is it the Woolen Mill complex? From my notes: "ca. 1868-1869, woolen mill built by George Hansen and the Canal and Reservoir Company “on the ditch along the cañon of the Arroyo de Los Reyes—now Figueroa Street” (Newmark), “This was the first turning of attention to the hill lands west of the city, which before were considered practically valueless” (Centennial History:125); ca. 1870, the miller there was perhaps Charles Turner; at length became an ice factory."

[HossC]

Yes, it's the woolen mill. We discussed it back in November 2015.

Originally Posted by Flyingwedge

Looking north at the woolen mill, 1876. I've enlarged the photo a bit, but it's still very hard to make out the
few houses in the upper right corner:

UCLA -- http://lit250v.library.ucla.edu/isla.../laviews%3A142

FW's full post is here, and there were others that followed, including a couple on this page.

[ethereal_reality]

Originally Posted by HossC

2017

GSV

This confused me at first. I was like, "Where's the Wilshore Grand!?"

I thought it would have a stronger presence along Wilshire.
__

one more thing: I don't find the tower closest to the freeway attractive. (Po-Mo is definitely my least favorite architectural style)

The reason I bring it up is because of this archway. I really like it alot. (it's po-mo but understated)


GSV

I'm sure the architect's intention was to pay homage to the old bridges just east of downtown, particularly the 4th St. Bridge and the Cesar Chavez Blvd. Viaduct.

The archway on the other side of the tower (7th St.) isn't as successful due to the garage entrance. (the arch is above and turned at a 45 degree angle to accom the garage.


(I;m not finished with this post but my lights are flickering and about to go off [snow storm) I'm afr aid I mi ght lose th po st conne ct in_tern e t. . @%*# *#%^#*

_

[odinthor]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

[...]

(I;m not finished yet but my lights are flickering and about to go off [snow storm) I'm afr aid I mi ght lose th po st conne ct o int erne t.. s sh . @%*# *#%^#*

_

Hang on! We're sending help...


http://www.secondwavemedia.com/north...dogs31114.aspx

[Hollywood Graham]

C.B.D's description of earlier L.A. is very accurate as far as I am concerned. I can remember riding the streetcar from the Silverlake area to downtown L.A. by myself to Christmas shop at 10 yrs old, no malls then. I also rode the streetcar with my friends to Hollywood to see movies. I rode my bike to Ferndell with them to catch mosquito fish in the creek. We had no fear of any danger which is so common place these days. If I had a 10 year old I would never let him do that. I sold newspapers in the middle of the street at Temple and Rampart and in front of stores and businesses about the same time. No freeways to many parts of the L.A. basin which took a long time to travel to, not so now. Skid Row was only a few blocks in area and populated by a small number, now look at it. Boils down to if you did not live it you don't really know it. Give me old L.A. anytime.