How to "fix" Winnipeg's North End

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by esquire

How would improving the ground-level connections between the North End and the Centennial neighbourhood immediately to the south by removing the railyards change anything for the North End?

The North End probably has a similar number of regional/arterial streets in and out of the area as any other Winnipeg neighbourhood.

I agree with you 100%. I've always found that part of the argument for rail relocation to be a bit out there. Suddenly, the fortunes of residents in the North End will be that much better because the yards are gone and they can now get to West Alexander on the ground rather than over the Slaw Rebchuk bridge? Even more interesting is the fact that if the yards moved, the main-line would still bi-sect the area. Good luck getting any new at-grade crossings from CP.

Like you implied, no one bats an eye that Norwood Flats isn't connected to Riverview, or that there aren't more connections from Westwood to Charleswood...

[goldenboi]

Originally Posted by esquire

How would improving the ground-level connections between the North End and the Centennial neighbourhood immediately to the south by removing the railyards change anything for the North End?

The North End probably has a similar number of regional/arterial streets in and out of the area as any other Winnipeg neighbourhood.

I'm not talking about car access. I don't think we can say that the North End is well-connected to the core simply because it has three arterial roads into the core (Arlington, salter, main). Most of the people who really feel trapped in the North End are those who can't afford cars. Many of those people are youth. And if the youth are trapped in, how can we expect the area to improve?? Not to mention the effect that the rail yards have for many blocks into the North End. Have you ever walked around the north side of the tracks? Sutherland Avenue is one of the main hotspots for gang activity, murders and unethical prostitution in the entire city.

And about the West End.. just because it has issues, doesn't mean that its connectivity doesn't seriously help it. If the West End was as shut off from the city as the North End is, I think it would be a much harsher place. I don't even think it's that bad to be honest, considering that it is a low-income neighbourhood.

Developers managed to be convinced to go to waterfront which had its fair share of issues not too long ago. And I don't think low-income housing would be a bad use for where the tracks are now. As long as it is done properly. Poor people need places to live to, do they not?

[balletomane]

I just can't see the rail yards being developed, at least not in our lifetimes, but maybe never. I also can't see the city okaying it because the rail yards are surrounded by a hodgepodge of lower-income housing and industrial warehouses, not exactly the most appealing area to reside. If the city wants to keep building new subdivisions its much more economically feasible to build outwards rather than maybe add 10,000 people to the area for an astronomical cost.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by goldenboi

I'm not talking about car access. I don't think we can say that the North End is well-connected to the core simply because it has three arterial roads into the core (Arlington, salter, main). Most of the people who really feel trapped in the North End are those who can't afford cars. Many of those people are youth. And if the youth are trapped in, how can we expect the area to improve?? Not to mention the effect that the rail yards have for many blocks into the North End. Have you ever walked around the north side of the tracks? Sutherland Avenue is one of the main hotspots for gang activity, murders and unethical prostitution in the entire city.

And about the West End.. just because it has issues, doesn't mean that its connectivity doesn't seriously help it. If the West End was as shut off from the city as the North End is, I think it would be a much harsher place. I don't even think it's that bad to be honest, considering that it is a low-income neighbourhood.

Developers managed to be convinced to go to waterfront which had its fair share of issues not too long ago. And I don't think low-income housing would be a bad use for where the tracks are now. As long as it is done properly. Poor people need places to live to, do they not?

Trapped? Are you fucking kidding, buses run down Arlington, Salter and Main it's not like some American inner city where public transit doesn't even exist. That part of the north end is pretty damn close to Red River College and the U of W, educate yourself and get out, tons of programs to help disenfranchised youth, quit whining and do something to improve your lot in life!

[esquire]

I think "trapped" in this case is a state of mind more than anything else... I'm not saying that isn't a problem, but it's not one that rail line relocation is going to solve. If anything, it would be squandering money that could be used to address more urgent and pressing issues.

I don't think there is literally a lack of physical connections to the rest of the city that's holding anyone back.

[1ajs]

things are changing

we have damage of residential schools that have piled up and we see it more here then most citiese the loss of family witch will mess with anyone at their core.

then theres a deeply rooted systematic racsym in our country that doesnt help. making it harder for people who come from this feeling left out lost resulting in the gangs and burring ones self in booz, drugs risky life styles with constant partying...... the systematic damage of this damage of fasd epidemics depression other mental health issues that result in abuse of all sorts. the suicides the problems downtown with the drunks ect. at the core the sens of family and is what will help we as a nation are a family and need to start adopting this into the core of our values more so with our indigionious brothers we kicked to the curb 150 yrs ago

[esquire]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

things are changing

we have damage of residential schools that have piled up and we see it more here then most citiese the loss of family witch will mess with anyone at their core.

then theres a deeply rooted systematic racsym in our country that doesnt help. making it harder for people who come from this feeling left out lost resulting in the gangs and burring ones self in booz, drugs risky life styles with constant partying...... the systematic damage of this damage of fasd epidemics depression other mental health issues that result in abuse of all sorts. the suicides the problems downtown with the drunks ect. at the core the sens of family and is what will help we as a nation are a family and need to start adopting this into the core of our values more so with our indigionious brothers we kicked to the curb 150 yrs ago

These are problems that will not be solved by pavement connecting Dufferin to Logan.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by esquire

These are problems that will not be solved by pavement connecting Dufferin to Logan.

agreed

[goldenboi]

I don't think it will happen anytime soon. Maybe not in our lifetime. But if we do things right, property value near the core should increase. I'm hoping that one day the value is high enough to justify removing the tracks. I'm most likely over optimistic.

[goldenboi]

On another note, has anyone been down Selkirk avenue lately? It seems pretty lively with a lot of diverse businesses and old brick buildings. A lot of potential in my opinion.

[Tacheguy]

Originally Posted by goldenboi

On another note, has anyone been down Selkirk avenue lately? It seems pretty lively with a lot of diverse businesses and old brick buildings. A lot of potential in my opinion.

I love Selkirk avenue. it has a real urban vibe to it..

[1ajs]

speaking of selkirk theres a zoning sign up across from the merch for a 2 story residential building at 533 selkirk curently a 1 story corner store laundramat






merchants

[Jets4Life]

Open more Community Centres and recreation facilities. However, when you have politicians like Nahanni Fontaine equating the new Youth For Christ inner city recreation centre with residential schools, it's tough for things to get built. I hope the private sector and the Government team up, and provide the youth of the area facilities that will benefit them, and dissuade poor life choices. Kevin Chief has done a good job from what I hear.

[Urban recluse]

The private sector could make all the difference.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

The private sector could make all the difference.

So true, since the Government has done such a "wonderful" job. I still recall when McPhillips Street Station was built in 1993. By working there for the Sport I was in, I saw early that the Government had no idea what the long term negative social consequences of building a huge casino in a poor area of town would be.

It may be just a coincidence, but suddenly organized gangs became a huge problem a short period of time later. The Government was already closing or cutting funding to rec centres and community centres in the North End. the Casino sure did not help, as the people gambling were working class or poor.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

So true, since the Government has done such a "wonderful" job. I still recall when McPhillips Street Station was built in 1993. By working there for the Sport I was in, I saw early that the Government had no idea what the long term negative social consequences of building a huge casino in a poor area of town would be.

It may be just a coincidence, but suddenly organized gangs became a huge problem a short period of time later. The Government was already closing or cutting funding to rec centres and community centres in the North End. the Casino sure did not help, as the people gambling were working class or poor.

That was under Filmon's watch. I never liked him at all.

He's not like a Trump or Reagan Conservative, but more like...Mike Harris from Ont.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

So true, since the Government has done such a "wonderful" job. I still recall when McPhillips Street Station was built in 1993. By working there for the Sport I was in, I saw early that the Government had no idea what the long term negative social consequences of building a huge casino in a poor area of town would be.

It may be just a coincidence, but suddenly organized gangs became a huge problem a short period of time later. The Government was already closing or cutting funding to rec centres and community centres in the North End. the Casino sure did not help, as the people gambling were working class or poor.

Gangs were in there LONG before the casinos. And if that's true. Then transcona should be looking the same as the north end.

People like to blame others for the downfall. But it was just a simple demographic change in who lived there. Young white kids moved to the suburbs and then when grandma died. Usually some rich person in the suburbs would buy up the homes and then rent them to low income people. It's a viscous cycle. But that's what really happened.
Drive down Burrows and see what type of people are living there. They are not wealthy. They don't own their homes. They are mostly on manitoba assistance. Most people if they do not own their place don't tend to care for it. Slum landlords also don't tend to care or they do such horrid patch jobs that it makes the area look like shit.

TBH the few homes left that are well maintained are usually people of Asian decent or the last remaining old people.

There is no way to fix it literally. All cities have poor areas.

[goldenboi]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

There is no way to fix it literally. All cities have poor areas.

This is true in most cities, but it doesn't need to be. All cities have poor people, but some are better at integrating them rather than segregating them all to one area. It harder for people to break the cycle when they are surrounded by people who are also having a tough time.

[balletomane]

Originally Posted by goldenboi

This is true in most cities, but it doesn't need to be. All cities have poor people, but some are better at integrating them rather than segregating them all to one area. It harder for people to break the cycle when they are surrounded by people who are also having a tough time.

This is probably something that's more true for Winnipeg than any other Canadian city. Most other major Canadian centres seem to have multiple pockets of poorer, tougher areas, but the Old North End is so segregated, geographically, economically and culturally from the rest of the city.
It just adds to the negative perceptions that outsiders have of the North End. I wonder how many Winnipeggers even know that the Luxton and St. John's neighborhoods are quite beautiful, or that the community is probably more tightly knit than any other in the city. Organizations like the Bear Clan Patrol and Meet Me at the Bell Tower are evidence of this.