What would you do with portage place?

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The biggest issue with the Portage Place food court is that security needs to actively work to minimize loitering and outside food. One evening I had stopped there for something and noticed one of the other tables basically brought a picnic from home and appeared to be setting up to use the food court as a meeting place for the evening.

A good example to follow is City Place. It is about three blocks away and a word of difference. It isn't so much actively chasing people out but being a bit of a visible presence and telling people this isn't a free community space to hang out for extended periods.



What is different between a suburban Starbucks and the Portage Place food court is the Starbucks the loitering people are usually young, somewhat attractive, almost always female and mostly white. The food court is much more ethnically diverse, appears to be lots of more recent immigrants and they might be speaking languages that are not English. The general perception on Portage Place in general has a bit of racism underneath the surface.


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In terms of relatively quick fix solutions for Portage Place? Start with taking a page from the St James Costco. Hire off duty police officers to have an active and visible presence in the open market street drug market out back. Just the visible presence alone will likely be enough to "encourage" those people to move on. Establish a visible presence for security in the food court and start asking people to move on. If the problem still persists do a "renovation" to more of a single patron seating (bar style) instead of tables. Also consider hiring a social worker to work with people frequenting the food court similar to what is being done at the Millennium Library. Do a full on reno to remove the food court bus shelter and work with transit to eliminate that stop completely. Also close the bus shelter over on Vaghaun.

Portage Place may also want to engage Downtown Watch, WPS and the Air Canada Building/APTN to coordinate their efforts, re the drug market, to proactively take steps to ensure it doesn't relocate to the park at Carlton and Portage Ave.

It is never going to be too great a shopping destination but it could at least achieve a similar presence to City Place and Winnipeg Square.

Bolded: Portage Place tried that and were labeled racist for it, apparently Portage Place is an ancestral meeting place and sacred!

[cllew]

After the 2016 incident when someone was asked to move on Portage Place hired an aboriginal security company as they could relate more to the people in the mall

https://www.chrisd.ca/2016/03/11/por.../#.XArY0DFN7cs

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by cllew

After the 2016 incident when someone was asked to move on Portage Place hired an aboriginal security company as they could relate more to the people in the mall

https://www.chrisd.ca/2016/03/11/por.../#.XArY0DFN7cs

Indigenous people do face a lot of discrimination, and I try to give them the benefit of the doubt because many people seem to do the opposite - automatically disbelieve them and get confrontational .... But I have to say that story really didn't add up to me when it broke. Like, security there doesn't bother to do anything about the obvious drug dealers, gangsters and low-lifes that hang around there... .they just let that crap go on and seemingly do jack squat. So why the hell would they suddenly get tough on some old man minding his business and eating his lunch? Doesn't make sense.

[vjose32]

How about turn the second floor into apartments?

[Luisito]

This place is a disaster but there is nothing that can be done. Anything to improve the place will be met with accusations of discrimination. It is what it is.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by vjose32

How about turn the second floor into apartments?

...or build residential towers on the pads that were intended for that purpose.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

...or build residential towers on the pads that were intended for that purpose.

Was just going to ask about the pads, so like 300 Main. there are pads in place at Portage place for residential towers? Wasn't aware of this.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Was just going to ask about the pads, so like 300 Main. there are pads in place at Portage place for residential towers? Wasn't aware of this.

There are pads at the eastern and western ends. There have been various proposals floated over the years... the western end was slated to become a hotel in the early/mid 90s, and the eastern end was slated to become an office building in the mid 00s but obviously nothing ever happened.

I recall it was mentioned that the pads weren't intended for particularly tall towers, maybe around 16-18 floors max although I guess it depends on the type of building and floor heights.

[Tyler19944]

Originally Posted by esquire

There are pads at the eastern and western ends. There have been various proposals floated over the years... the western end was slated to become a hotel in the early/mid 90s, and the eastern end was slated to become an office building in the mid 00s but obviously nothing ever happened.

I recall it was mentioned that the pads weren't intended for particularly tall towers, maybe around 16-18 floors max although I guess it depends on the type of building and floor heights.

Okay if I were to fix Portage Place, phase 1 would definitely be adding a mixed use tower at either end....

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by Tyler19944

Okay if I were to fix Portage Place, phase 1 would definitely be adding a mixed use tower at either end....

Between the Cityplace food court and the TNS food hall coming soon a couple blocks away the Portage place food court will start to be a little redundant. Forks North-Portage will also hopefully have some income coming in from the Railside development and won't have to depend entirely on the portage place parkade for income anymore. This could actually line up really well and set the stage for the portage place pads to be developed. The food court could be partially re-purposed into amenity space for residents, and partially converted into a couple of individual units with their own seating. That should help with the loitering problem.

Also, the Globe and the Imax are both sitting empty, I see no reason at all not to open it back up and let Edmonton street run right through again. It's just empty space and a starbucks in that spot anyway. That could eliminate some empty space inside the mall while also breathing a little new life into the streetscape. Make portage place essentially two buildings, connected by skywalk, the western one with retail/office in the podium and the eastern one with a couple of food places where the food court used to be. The drug market out back would no longer be the back door of the mall but would be opened up and connected back into the street grid, more exposed, easier to police.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Tyler19944

Okay if I were to fix Portage Place, phase 1 would definitely be adding a mixed use tower at either end....

That, dump the drug dealing/ homeless shelter food court, grocery store, convert most of the retail space to office space...

[Tyler19944]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

That, dump the drug dealing/ homeless shelter food court, grocery store, convert most of the retail space to office space...

I would rather see mixed use tower (which would include office space) than to see the main floors go all to office space. Have the main floor be a gateway entrance where you can go to the towers or into Portage place.

But I do agree that the food court needs to be moved. It is kind of strange having an entrance of a mall be a food court, as it is currently.

I think Portage Place has a lot of potential if it just uses all of its chips and re-does the entire complex completely.

Is there any reason that the owners don't try to revamp it? Is it just lack of ambition? I would love to see it be sold to a new owner a with vision... Having a high quality downtown mall that could one day complement Polo Park would be wonderful for Winnipeg.

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by Tyler19944

Is there any reason that the owners don't try to revamp it? Is it just lack of ambition? I would love to see it be sold to a new owner a with vision... Having a high quality downtown mall that could one day complement Polo Park would be wonderful for Winnipeg.

I’d imagine, and this is pure speculation, the current owners don’t because the mall operates on a razor thin margines and any renovations would not produce a significant return on that investment. At least until they take ownership of the parkade. A recent free press article mentioned how since construction the value of the mall has only ever decreased in value, quit significantly, with each new ownership group.

[buzzg]

I wonder if there'd be a good play to open up the 1st first floor again and run busses through there from Graham, turning the mall into a sort of transit hub. Keep the main floor retail (it would get busier), they run through the Promenade to connect to Ellice which would make the empty lots along The Promenade more attractive to develop (and reinvigorate the retail units), then it makes the two pads even more attractive for office/residential towers as they're directly connected to what would eventually be one of two main downtown transit stations (along with Union Station).

Balmoral Station is a hole, with some creative traffic/transit configuring, this could turn into a beautiful downtown station. Keep the glass roof over the street and open up the main floor.

Hell, the mall is probably big enough to turn the main floor into a bus loop, have busses go north on Edmonton into the mall, loop left toward Kennedy, and either exit onto Portage or take Kennedy back to Graham & beyond. Maybe last western block of Graham and a few blocks of Vaughn become pedestrian-only, culminating in a redeveloped, busy Hudson's Bay.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

I’d imagine, and this is pure speculation, the current owners don’t because the mall operates on a razor thin margines and any renovations would not produce a significant return on that investment. At least until they take ownership of the parkade. A recent free press article mentioned how since construction the value of the mall has only ever decreased in value, quit significantly, with each new ownership group.

So the opposite of what land values are supposed to do

[EspionNoir]

I think as more people are going to live in downtown because of these new high-end/affordable residential buildings, the demand for a near, high end shopping center will go up. If Portage Place take this chance to transform itself into something to keep up with the trend, and perceive the return to be fruity, it will likely take a move